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  #12801  
Old 18.09.2020, 18:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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I know this thread has degenerated into a giant argument among a few of you, but I have an actual question. What is the general attitude like in CH now? Here in France, it is pretty sad. I would guestimate that 80% of the population are behaving just like we did during the lockdown. No one goes anywhere ever, except the pharmacie and the grocery. Masks are worn almost 100% of the time. People who are wearing their mask under their nose are called out in public. "Masque, madame, svp!".


I have to tell you, it is just depressing. Is Switzerland like this, or are you recovering and going about your business?
I think a lot of people here in Switzerland (and perhaps elsewhere as well) have become a bit desensitized to the pandemic, now that it's become "the new normal," in many ways. But some people seem to interpret that desensitization as though it means that the virus is no longer a threat, which certainly isn't the case; while others seem to understand that the threat is still very real -- as is the pandemic itself.

So yeah, it is depressing... or can be. But that's reality; and it's a reality that we don't really have much choice but to accept. I liken it to climate change in many ways. Ignoring the problem or pretending that the threat isn't real isn't going to make the problem go away.

I've seen in the news how bad the situation has become there in France in the past month or so (in terms of new cases), so maybe people there are a bit more "on the defense" because of it. And perhaps it will become that way here again at some point, if the numbers here continue to rise as they have been.
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  #12802  
Old 18.09.2020, 19:16
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So the friend of a friend who had Corona was quarantined for 10 days. He spent a lot of time with his extended family. They even had a get together party etc, yet none of them caught Corona, all negative including old family members

This Corona seems bit too selective I really don't know what to believe any more.
Your friend of a friend may well have had one of the many false-positive test results.

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... place was teaming actually.
Football? Ice hockey? Rugby??? Surely not cricket, in Ticino, at this time of year?

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So if one doesnt have to quaratine anymore (in canton Vaud) after having been in contact with an infected person, does that also apply when returning from a red list country?
It's ridiculous, but if you return to (any part of) Switzerland from a "red list" country, you have to isolate. You see, Swiss coronavirus is higher quality and generally just better than that foreign stuff. Schweizer Qualität, even in Romandie.
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  #12803  
Old 18.09.2020, 19:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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It didn't take long but they admitted that contact tracing has failed in canton Vaud ... but this is exactly the issue with the federal government passing the buck to the cantons. It's the same issue that we had back in March.

Instead of having a centralized operation consisting of contact tracers, we have every single canton doing it's own, not communicating with other cantons and now being overrun when we still have sufficient tracers in other parts of the country.
You fail to consider the general setup, the distribution of power.

It was only by declaring an emergency that the whole thing could be "grabbed" and managed by the federal government. Once that state was declared past, executive power returned to the Cantons. In normal times however, while it determines the rules and regulations, the federal government has no say whatsoever in how they are implemented. Which is exactly the problem with these idiots at the helm in Vaud.
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  #12804  
Old 18.09.2020, 20:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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I know this thread has degenerated into a giant argument among a few of you, but I have an actual question. What is the general attitude like in CH now? Here in France, it is pretty sad. I would guestimate that 80% of the population are behaving just like we did during the lockdown. No one goes anywhere ever, except the pharmacie and the grocery. Masks are worn almost 100% of the time. People who are wearing their mask under their nose are called out in public. "Masque, madame, svp!".

I have to tell you, it is just depressing. Is Switzerland like this, or are you recovering and going about your business?
I have no idea about the "general" attitude. I have not made a survey, but...we werer in the Valais caves ouvertes in Salquenen at the end of August. No masks, the only measure was clean your hands and they tried to spread the customers as much as possible. It was the only caves ouvertes this year, they had something between optimism and resignation attitude. In contrast, the event was cancelled in TI, NE and VD, I'd guess it would have been quite depressive over there.

Here in Aargau, I go 3 days a week to my office, no masks, no worries because we're at ~30% of the capacity of the office. Most of colleagues are still working from home. Sometimes I would like shake hands or slap a colleague on the back but I stop myself :/ I returned to the gym a month ago. Around half the people have returned, the coaches try to be cheerful but they look worried sometimes.

Last weekend me and my wife helped the relatives of a friend to collect grapes for wine here in Aargau. We asked politely about masks or other measures, nothing. We shared the wine and food at the end of job. Quite cheerful attitude. Other night we went for dinner at a restaurant and normal? Gel at the door, distances between tables, no more. People seem to go to restaurants.

Not sure if the relatively positive attitude is fueled by all the sunlight we're getting this September. My only expectation this year is that ski resorts are allowed to open.
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  #12805  
Old 18.09.2020, 20:52
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Re: Coronavirus

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Axa, I get that, still I find the whole Corona stuff extremely weird.

In the bus half the people are wearing the mask on their mouth. Few not wearing any mask. If Corona situation is so serious why is no one implementing the mask rule properly on public transport, shops etc? Fines, public flogging, fish hook, nose clamp

If masks are not really needed then why the hell am I torturing myself daily while half the bus is allowed to carry on like Royalty? Non mask wearers are allegedly danger to my life and I can't do anything about it!!!

Current implementation of mask rule = Murder is illegal but if you murder someone then you won't get any punishment
I empower you to challenge people in public transport for not wearing masks or incorrectly wearing them.
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  #12806  
Old 18.09.2020, 21:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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I know this thread has degenerated into a giant argument among a few of you, but I have an actual question. What is the general attitude like in CH now? Here in France, it is pretty sad. I would guestimate that 80% of the population are behaving just like we did during the lockdown. No one goes anywhere ever, except the pharmacie and the grocery. Masks are worn almost 100% of the time. People who are wearing their mask under their nose are called out in public. "Masque, madame, svp!".


I have to tell you, it is just depressing. Is Switzerland like this, or are you recovering and going about your business?
I suspect it was quite depressing for the 120,000 people who are registered as having caught the disease and recovered with who-knows-what long-term side effects but more so for the quarter of those 120,000 who died.

I appreciate you wrote that you don't want to get into the argument but you've made your own views pretty clear.


10,000 new cases a day in France. I can understand why people are avoiding interacting with other people as much as possible - quite possibly to avoid another total lockdown.
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Old 18.09.2020, 21:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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I know this thread has degenerated into a giant argument among a few of you, but I have an actual question. What is the general attitude like in CH now? Here in France, it is pretty sad. I would guestimate that 80% of the population are behaving just like we did during the lockdown. No one goes anywhere ever, except the pharmacie and the grocery. Masks are worn almost 100% of the time. People who are wearing their mask under their nose are called out in public. "Masque, madame, svp!".


I have to tell you, it is just depressing. Is Switzerland like this, or are you recovering and going about your business?
My observations in Ausserschwyz:

The only place where there is 100% compliance with masks, hand sanitizing, and strict distancing is the vet clinic. During the lockdown-that-wasn't-really-a-lockdown the clinic remained open but owners were not allowed to attend procedures, so we know what is at stake if we have to go back to that. No arguments, no complaining with the milder measures now... because the health and wellbeing of our pets is at stake.

Unfortunately there does not seem to be the same concern for our fellow man. Everywhere else safety measures are mere suggestions, few take them seriously. Walk into the shopping center, 9 out of 10 people pass by the hand sanitizer station without using it. I'd guess at most 10% wear masks, maybe less than that. And as for social distancing... the check out line resembles the free-or-all of a Swiss skil lift line, pushing and cutting in included.

The above behavior has been going on since the beginning, but it seems to be much worse in the last two weeks. One guess why: We are close to the cantonal border, the shopping center is far more crowded and you now see many more ZH plated cars in the parking lot than you used to. I'm guessing many of those are Zürich anti-maskers shopping here now - certainly there are many more people being rather militant about non-compliance.

But it's not all down to Maskengegnereinkaufstouristen. I was at the doctor yesterday. The waiting room is small so gets crowded quickly. No masks, lots of coughing. I asked the receptionist if she could text me when the doctor was ready so that I could wait outside - she looked at me as if I was from Mars.

OH is still working from home with the occasional foray into his office whenever I fail in my task of running my home as if it were a corporate space. It is unlikely that employees will return to the office full time this year. The mutts and I have been walking on eggshells so long now it's become our new domestic normal.

The pandemic has shown us who we as a society really are - and it's not a good look. You see the same selfish disregard for others (masquerading as 'Freedumb!') here as you do in the crazier bits of the US.

Biggest worry is that I can't take my usual trips back to the US to help my elderly mother. Plan B might be to return to the US and stay there a while... but only after 4 November. Or maybe 21 January.
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  #12808  
Old 18.09.2020, 21:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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I suspect it was quite depressing for the 120,000 people who are registered as having caught the disease and recovered with who-knows-what long-term side effects but more so for the quarter of those 120,000 who died.

I appreciate you wrote that you don't want to get into the argument but you've made your own views pretty clear.


10,000 new cases a day in France. I can understand why people are avoiding interacting with other people as much as possible - quite possibly to avoid another total lockdown.

Well, it was actually 13k cases today, but I am at a loss as to why you attacked me. Maybe you are confusing me with someone else? I was just questioning what the general vibe out on the street was in Switzerland. Sorry if you misunderstood my question.
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  #12809  
Old 18.09.2020, 21:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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What is the general attitude like in CH now?...

... People who are wearing their mask under their nose are called out in public. "Masque, madame, svp!".

... Is Switzerland like this, or are you recovering and going about your business?
From what I've seen, the general attitude is pretty much individual.

One friend is pretty casual about it all. She sticks to the rules and respects others who do so, but she's had a number of holidays without a second thought or concern. On the other hand, her younger house mate wears a mask from leaving the house until he returns, including around her when she's just got back from holiday.

OH was 'reminded' that his mask had slipped down his nose by a shop assistant, but took it in good humour and apologised.

'Normal business' is a way off yet. Travel is out of the question for us. OH won't go to crowded areas because of his reduced immunity and will be working from home for at least another few months. I like taking long evening walks but the bars and restaurants near us are pretty much deserted once it gets past 8pm. Saw a socially distanced outside birthday party at one of the bars a couple of nights ago, where most of the guests were over 50, so I'd say it all feels like midwinter has come a little early with a few exceptions.
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  #12810  
Old 18.09.2020, 21:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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I was on holiday in Ticino for 10 days, difficult to see any corona impact to daily life, place was teaming actually.
Was in Basel today, same, life, at least on the surface, as normal.


What about the holiday season in the Dordogne? How did it go?
Last time i was there, a few years ago, was packed in July.
We had a two month normal holiday season but it was only French people. So, in one way it was nice because it was less crowded, but here at our vineyard, the sales were way down, so, not so nice.



The most detrimental thing at our vineyard is the lack of sales to restaurants. They are the ones suffering, as well as hotels, and that translates directly to wine sales. So, yes, not a good year for us vignerons.
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Old 18.09.2020, 21:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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Well, it was actually 13k cases today, but I am at a loss as to why you attacked me. Maybe you are confusing me with someone else? I was just questioning what the general vibe out on the street was in Switzerland. Sorry if you misunderstood my question.
Your post was clearly implying that people actually abiding by proper social distancing and mask-wearing measures is "depressing" and that people are being silly for telling others to put their masks on properly so that they get full protection.

It's almost as though you don't really understand what's going on in the world and why people are sticking to these mesures.
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  #12812  
Old 18.09.2020, 21:58
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Re: Coronavirus

I feel your pain with the zero US trips. I am expecting a new granddaughter on 12 November and there is no way we will be there. I just keep telling myself "it's 2020. She will be little and will not even know we were not there."


Talked to my oldest granddaughter on Facetime tonight. She is at university in Atlanta, Georgia. She just came out of quarantine because her three roommates were sick and positive with Covid. She has had two negative tests. She is so depressed about her freshman year. It is a complete nightmare.


I continue to tell my 3 adult kids, their 3 spouses and my 4 grandkids in the US, chin up, this will all be over soon and, please, wear your freaking masks.
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  #12813  
Old 18.09.2020, 22:00
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Re: Coronavirus

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My observations in Ausserschwyz:

The only place where there is 100% compliance with masks, hand sanitizing, and strict distancing is the vet clinic. During the lockdown-that-wasn't-really-a-lockdown the clinic remained open but owners were not allowed to attend procedures, so we know what is at stake if we have to go back to that. No arguments, no complaining with the milder measures now... because the health and wellbeing of our pets is at stake.

Unfortunately there does not seem to be the same concern for our fellow man. Everywhere else safety measures are mere suggestions, few take them seriously. Walk into the shopping center, 9 out of 10 people pass by the hand sanitizer station without using it. I'd guess at most 10% wear masks, maybe less than that. And as for social distancing... the check out line resembles the free-or-all of a Swiss skil lift line, pushing and cutting in included.

The above behavior has been going on since the beginning, but it seems to be much worse in the last two weeks. One guess why: We are close to the cantonal border, the shopping center is far more crowded and you now see many more ZH plated cars in the parking lot than you used to. I'm guessing many of those are Zürich anti-maskers shopping here now - certainly there are many more people being rather militant about non-compliance.

But it's not all down to Maskengegnereinkaufstouristen. I was at the doctor yesterday. The waiting room is small so gets crowded quickly. No masks, lots of coughing. I asked the receptionist if she could text me when the doctor was ready so that I could wait outside - she looked at me as if I was from Mars.

OH is still working from home with the occasional foray into his office whenever I fail in my task of running my home as if it were a corporate space. It is unlikely that employees will return to the office full time this year. The mutts and I have been walking on eggshells so long now it's become our new domestic normal.

The pandemic has shown us who we as a society really are - and it's not a good look. You see the same selfish disregard for others (masquerading as 'Freedumb!') here as you do in the crazier bits of the US.

Biggest worry is that I can't take my usual trips back to the US to help my elderly mother. Plan B might be to return to the US and stay there a while... but only after 4 November. Or maybe 21 January.
Ausserschwyz here as well, but I don't observe the same. I guess I am a bit further away from Seedammcenter.

Many people use the hand sanitizers, although I personally think it is symbolic and not too useful. I disinfect often but not always. No masks. But I find that shops are not crowded and people are very considerate and keep distances. Certainly no rushing or pushing. I have seen plenty of that in Germany lately where people wear masks because they have to but seem rather aggressive otherwise.

Overall, I feel like most people are behaving reasonably, good balance. Of course this is in an atmosphere where few infections occur (at least in comparison to Geneva, Vaud) and no one feels too scared.
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  #12814  
Old 18.09.2020, 22:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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Well, it was actually 13k cases today, but I am at a loss as to why you attacked me. Maybe you are confusing me with someone else? I was just questioning what the general vibe out on the street was in Switzerland. Sorry if you misunderstood my question.
I understood your question. To answer why I retorted as I did - see below:

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Your post was clearly implying that people actually abiding by proper social distancing and mask-wearing measures is "depressing" and that people are being silly for telling others to put their masks on properly so that they get full protection.

It's almost as though you don't really understand what's going on in the world and why people are sticking to these measures.
I read it exactly like that too. I should think others did too.
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  #12815  
Old 18.09.2020, 22:30
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Re: Coronavirus

At least six studies have reported T cell reactivity against SARS-CoV-2 in 20% to 50% of people with no known exposure to the virus
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3563
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Old 18.09.2020, 22:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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At least six studies have reported T cell reactivity against SARS-CoV-2 in 20% to 50% of people with no known exposure to the virus
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3563
Good!
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Old 18.09.2020, 22:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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We had a two month normal holiday season but it was only French people. So, in one way it was nice because it was less crowded, but here at our vineyard, the sales were way down, so, not so nice.



The most detrimental thing at our vineyard is the lack of sales to restaurants. They are the ones suffering, as well as hotels, and that translates directly to wine sales. So, yes, not a good year for us vignerons.
My town in Pa outside of Philadelphia was a vibrant town. Lots of Mom and Pop stores as well as boutiques and many restaurants. It had a 1950s vibe as there is an old fashioned movie theatre and ice cream shop. Lots of kids riding bicycles around the town. The issue was parking! I used to have to drive 5-10 minutes around the town looking for a parking space.

And now?? It is a ghost town. There are 200+ parking spots and when I went into town in August, of the 200+ spots, there were 3 spots taken Parking meters are no longer in force due to "Covid" - read that to mean no customers. Small businesses there shutting down by the day and let's not even talk about restaurants as there is no indoor dining in PA.

Not good! Switzerland may be able to prop up businesses but the in US - it is not the best. And the long term effects from this? Also not good. Massive unemployment, depression and other health issues will ensue.

Just my thoughts...
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  #12818  
Old 18.09.2020, 22:52
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Re: Coronavirus

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Your post was clearly implying that people actually abiding by proper social distancing and mask-wearing measures is "depressing" and that people are being silly for telling others to put their masks on properly so that they get full protection.

It's almost as though you don't really understand what's going on in the world and why people are sticking to these mesures.
Or maybe they just felt like expressing their sadness and didn't really mean anything more by it?
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Old 18.09.2020, 23:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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At least six studies have reported T cell reactivity against SARS-CoV-2 in 20% to 50% of people with no known exposure to the virus
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3563
Here is another very good article on T3 Cell Immunity via NYMagazine:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020....html#comments
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Old 18.09.2020, 23:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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I feel your pain with the zero US trips. I am expecting a new granddaughter on 12 November and there is no way we will be there. I just keep telling myself "it's 2020. She will be little and will not even know we were not there."
Here's to a healthy, happy new grandbaby - and hopefully soon a better world for her to grow up in.
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