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  #12961  
Old 23.09.2020, 23:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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Whilst I agree with your conclusion, the increase in Sweden in the last week or two has been very slight - it wobbled up a bit a couple of months ago before declining again. Hard to say whether its part of a sustained trend or not yet.
Thank you for "the increase in Sweden in the last week or two has been very slight", do you have a source for this?
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  #12962  
Old 23.09.2020, 23:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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Thank you for "the increase in Sweden in the last week or two has been very slight", do you have a source for this?

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...ountry/sweden/
Seems like the number of daily cases is quite stable since mid July.


Funny actually that Sweden is used both as a role model and as a bad example.
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  #12963  
Old 23.09.2020, 23:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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Thank you for "the increase in Sweden in the last week or two has been very slight", do you have a source for this?
We can all find the Covid case data!

Perhaps slight is the wrong word I concede but given the volatility of Sweden's data it's insufficient in demonstrating that the second wave is starting. As k and e suggest it's been 200-300 cases daily for 3.5 months now.

Im on record I think as voicing my opinion that they will have one.
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  #12964  
Old 23.09.2020, 23:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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We can all find the Covid case data!

Perhaps slight is the wrong word I concede but given the volatility of Sweden's data it's insufficient in demonstrating that the second wave is starting.
No credible source then.
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  #12965  
Old 24.09.2020, 00:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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No credible source then.
Are you telling me you haven't been on worldometres daily for the last 7 months?
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  #12966  
Old 24.09.2020, 00:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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https://www.worldometers.info/corona...ountry/sweden/
Seems like the number of daily cases is quite stable since mid July.


Funny actually that Sweden is used both as a role model and as a bad example.
Sadly this link is not credible for Sweden.
The numbers are not internally consistent, numbers of new cases, new deaths are different depending on which area of the link you look at.
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  #12967  
Old 24.09.2020, 00:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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Are you telling me you haven't been on worldometres daily for the last 7 months?
Look at my post 12966
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  #12968  
Old 24.09.2020, 07:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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You could begin fruitful debate by offering facts to back up your opinions. If your opinion has a solid factual basis, it will withstand almost any test, but what you're offering is like asking a child why they feel a certain way and getting the reply "Because!"
This is absurd coming from the person who basically said "cancer care hasn't been ignored during lockdown because I know people"

I do state facts, just I write them with authority and challenge people to think rather than wrapping them up nicely with links for people who are unable to use google or challenge previously held beliefs.

In order to have a discussion, each side has to be able to agree that certain things are fact. When I say the UK is a service based consumer economy based on high spending, THIS IS A FACT. It's all there on the internet for you to look up. If you cannot agree on basic facts then there is little point in holding a discussion with you.
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  #12969  
Old 24.09.2020, 08:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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This is absurd coming from the person who basically said "cancer care hasn't been ignored during lockdown because I know people"

I do state facts, just I write them with authority and challenge people to think rather than wrapping them up nicely with links for people who are unable to use google or challenge previously held beliefs.

In order to have a discussion, each side has to be able to agree that certain things are fact. When I say the UK is a service based consumer economy based on high spending, THIS IS A FACT. It's all there on the internet for you to look up. If you cannot agree on basic facts then there is little point in holding a discussion with you.
And what do you propose? I've been reading some of your posts on this thread for a few months already and I'm still confused by your constant state of outrage and switches in discourse. I'm not interested in your real life persona so my questions are not related to your profession or occupation but to your arguments. What the (UK) authorities could do and didn't do to prevent an economic collapse as you call it? Are you, your business or your assets in particular affected by some of the restrictions? I don't mind an opposing view as long as it is genuine and you own it up. But pretending you play the devils advocate only and you do it for a "healthy debate" (or is it mc with the healthy debate, there's too many of you who pretend the same thing, sorry I get confused).....nah, I don't buy it.
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  #12970  
Old 24.09.2020, 08:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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And what do you propose? I've been reading some of your posts on this thread for a few months already and I'm still confused by your constant state of outrage and switches in discourse. I'm not interested in your real life persona so my questions are not related to your profession or occupation but to your arguments. What the (UK) authorities could do and didn't do to prevent an economic collapse as you call it? Are you, your business or your assets in particular affected by some of the restrictions? I don't mind an opposing view as long as it is genuine and you own it up. But pretending you play the devils advocate only and you do it for a "healthy debate" (or is it mc with the healthy debate, there's too many of you who pretend the same thing, sorry I get confused).....nah, I don't buy it.
Many countries and regions are going in and out of various lockdown measures in anticipation of a vaccine that may never come. We may never even see mass rapid tests being available. This is no way to carry on, and could end up doing so much more damage. It's really a gamble banking on this vaccine.

We need to learn to live with the virus. Just take the Swiss approach, be sensible, protect the economy, take the virus seriously. And ditch the masks because they're clearly having no effect!
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  #12971  
Old 24.09.2020, 08:58
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Re: Coronavirus

This is the consequence of letting corona spread:

https://www.technologyreview.com/202...a384f-45049313
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  #12972  
Old 24.09.2020, 08:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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Wow! You couldn't be more wrong with regards to Switzerland.

Please tell me you're not paid to be an economist?

Attachment 140278
https://tradingeconomics.com/country...ntinent=europe
I'm pretty sure that refers to gross debt not net. If so, the Swiss number is distorted by the mortgage system here where many people simply never pay off their loan despite having sufficient cash to do so.

At least that was the case when I looked at it a couple of years back. Swiss net debt was amongst the lowest. Savings ratios here are (at least were) very high.
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  #12973  
Old 24.09.2020, 09:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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Many countries and regions are going in and out of various lockdown measures in anticipation of a vaccine that may never come. We may never even see mass rapid tests being available. This is no way to carry on, and could end up doing so much more damage. It's really a gamble banking on this vaccine.

We need to learn to live with the virus. Just take the Swiss approach, be sensible, protect the economy, take the virus seriously. And ditch the masks because they're clearly having no effect!
OK, you didn't really answer to my questions but I'll bite. I think many countries are going in and out of various lockdown measures (not really lockdown imo rather restrictions) to prevent the collapse of their health systems. This is the way we have to live with the virus for a while. As for the masks, I think they're also part of learning to live with the virus.
TC, you wouldn't want to see any country struggling to provide basic medical care not only to covid-19 patients but to anyone else because the hospitals are full and half of the medical staff is infected with covid and in need of medical care themselves. You know once we're on this route all the ethics and morals are going down.
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  #12974  
Old 24.09.2020, 09:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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This is absurd coming from the person who basically said "cancer care hasn't been ignored during lockdown because I know people"

I do state facts, just I write them with authority and challenge people to think rather than wrapping them up nicely with links for people who are unable to use google or challenge previously held beliefs.

In order to have a discussion, each side has to be able to agree that certain things are fact. When I say the UK is a service based consumer economy based on high spending, THIS IS A FACT. It's all there on the internet for you to look up. If you cannot agree on basic facts then there is little point in holding a discussion with you.
This sums up the world of TonyClifton: I’ll say whatever I want, you look it up! Not my job to support my claims. It’s yours! Actually, don’t bother looking it up, just accept them as true. My claims are facts! Unicorns are real and they live in your back yard. Look it up! No don’t look it up!
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  #12975  
Old 24.09.2020, 09:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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This is the consequence of letting corona spread:

https://www.technologyreview.com/202...a384f-45049313
This seems to be very much an advert for herd immunity. 0.28% infection fatality rate, pandemic done and dusted in a short space of time. 1 in 500-800 deaths per head population. I posted similar findings from the slums around Mumbai a while back.

Now imagine this being done in a controlled way as would be possible in most developed countries. Protecting the vulnerable and allowing the rest of the population to develop herd immunity. Restrictions and lockdowns just impede dealing with the virus naturally.

What's also interesting is that of all non-lockdown countries where the virus has been allowed to let rip (mainly developing countries), none of the catastrophic projections of the Ferguson model have come true in reality.

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I'm pretty sure that refers to gross debt not net. If so, the Swiss number is distorted by the mortgage system here where many people simply never pay off their loan despite having sufficient cash to do so.

At least that was the case when I looked at it a couple of years back. Swiss net debt was amongst the lowest. Savings ratios here are (at least were) very high.
Exactly, the debt point was only mentioned as an aside, more related to consumer debt like credit cards, car financing etc. The main point is that the UK economy is far more reliant on consumption expenditure than other European economies.
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  #12976  
Old 24.09.2020, 09:29
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Re: Coronavirus

From the same article

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Florian Krammer, an immunologist at Mt. Sinai Hospital in New York, says it was expected that some regions would reach levels of immunity high enough to interrupt local outbreaks, but that such events should be considered public health failures, not successes.

“Community immunity via natural infection is not a strategy, it’s a sign that government failed to control an outbreak and is paying for that in lives lost,” Krammer tweeted.
I guess it depends on which kind of society one is aiming at.
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  #12977  
Old 24.09.2020, 09:40
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Re: Coronavirus

After almost 50k infections among 37 universities in USA there have been only 37 hospitalizations and 0 deaths! I guess bigger chance to be hit by a lightning or winning the Euromillions !

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  #12978  
Old 24.09.2020, 09:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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After almost 50k infections among 37 universities in USA there have been only 37 hospitalizations and 0 deaths! I guess bigger chance to be hit by a lightning or winning the Euromillions !

If those numbers are true then maybe Corona is getting hyped for some reason? That said, universities have younger people who are less vulnerable to Corona?
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  #12979  
Old 24.09.2020, 09:57
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Re: Coronavirus

As usual, a very balanced and well-written piece by the FT, this time focusing on Finland. I realize it's behind a paywall, so a few snippets

"Finland’s approach — and the similar one of Denmark and Norway — of shutting down rapidly but not totally to get the pandemic under control, and then reopening after a couple of months has been one of the most successful in Europe in this early stage of coronavirus."

Very interestingly, wasn't aware myself:

"One big distinction between Finland and all other European countries is its focus on preparedness and how to act in national emergencies, born out of its collective experience during the Winter War in 1939-40 against the Soviet Union. Its law on preparedness explicitly mentions pandemics and was triggered for the first time since the second world war while its emergency stockpiles of medical and protective equipment were the envy of the continent amid shortages elsewhere.

Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s state epidemiologist who reviewed the preparedness in Finland several years ago, said: “Their level of preparedness is just way beyond anything we would even dream about in Sweden. But, of course, if you have a neighbour like Russia and you’ve fought wars with them forever . . . ”


“Of course, we can’t keep society closed forever. That is what we are balancing right now — how do you keep society functioning as much as possible while keeping the disease under control?”



https://www.ft.com/content/61dccfaa-...c-dbe6d5b5b5f8
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  #12980  
Old 24.09.2020, 10:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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After almost 50k infections among 37 universities in USA there have been only 37 hospitalizations and 0 deaths! I guess bigger chance to be hit by a lightning or winning the Euromillions !

How old is the average student in a US University?

Come on man, do some thinking before posting. No one is arguing that young people are bot likely to get hospitalized.
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