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  #13021  
Old 24.09.2020, 19:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes - we have all the time in the world to remain hunkered down.



Airbus in danger of going under, says chief executive
Robert Lea, Industrial Editor
Wednesday September 23 2020, 12.01am BST, The Times


Airbus, the European aircraft manufacturer that employs and indirectly supports tens of thousands of jobs in British aerospace factories, is in danger of collapse, its chief executive said.

Speaking yesterday to the French media, Guillaume Faury said: “The crisis is existential. Our life as a business is potentially at risk if we don’t take the right measures.”
Interesting this. But to blame it on corona lock-downs is to miss the point. The long-term stability of systems is determined mainly by how resistant they are to shocks. Our present world economic order is a disaster waiting to happen. The shocks are going to come:
climate change
refugee crisis
pandemics
chinese expansion
................?
Politics matters. Trump and Johnson are part of the problem, not the solution
Sweden is a distraction.
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  #13022  
Old 24.09.2020, 19:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes - we have all the time in the world to remain hunkered down.
No we don't. I'm thinking of a time when this is all done and dusted and lessons learned. Will those lessons be remembered and implemented in the next pandemic, or largely fade away or be seen as outmoded similar to how we view the Spanish flu.

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No other country triggers such mixed reactions in this thread as Sweden during this Corona crisis.
Personally, I believe it's because their actions have largely been misunderstood as a highly developed first world country taking (what is commonly viewed as) reckless action, as a matter of choice and not born of necessity, when the fact is that they took a light touch approach.

The reality is a fair way from that with Sweden giving their people the tools and freedom to work things out for themselves and take the action which is appropriate to them, without enforcing a national lockdown. Yet you have the libertarian/anarchist/QAnon crowd insistently holding Sweden up as a bastion of what they believe in, whilst conveniently ignoring the measures which Sweden did put into place, and very specifically ignoring the fact that Sweden has never claimed that the virus is 'a hoax'.

There's reams and reams of actions that the Swedish government took, but because they didn't opt for full national lockdown, some choose to push the idea that they sat on their hands throughout, which simply isn't true.
https://www.government.se/government...vid-19/?page=1
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  #13023  
Old 24.09.2020, 20:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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No we don't. I'm thinking of a time when this is all done and dusted and lessons learned. Will those lessons be remembered and implemented in the next pandemic, or largely fade away or be seen as outmoded similar to how we view the Spanish flu.

Personally, I believe it's because their actions have largely been misunderstood as a highly developed first world country taking (what is commonly viewed as) reckless action, as a matter of choice and not born of necessity, when the fact is that they took a light touch approach.

The reality is a fair way from that with Sweden giving their people the tools and freedom to work things out for themselves and take the action which is appropriate to them, without enforcing a national lockdown. Yet you have the libertarian/anarchist/QAnon crowd insistently holding Sweden up as a bastion of what they believe in, whilst conveniently ignoring the measures which Sweden did put into place, and very specifically ignoring the fact that Sweden has never claimed that the virus is 'a hoax'.

There's reams and reams of actions that the Swedish government took, but because they didn't opt for full national lockdown, some choose to push the idea that they sat on their hands throughout, which simply isn't true.
https://www.government.se/government...vid-19/?page=1
Exactly, much of this discussion Sweden vs lock-down is a made-up hype. When this is all over in early 2022, I wouldn't be surprised if most indicators show pretty similar figures for SWE and rest of Europe - both on health and on economy.
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  #13024  
Old 24.09.2020, 20:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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Sadly this link is not credible for Sweden.
The numbers are not internally consistent, numbers of new cases, new deaths are different depending on which area of the link you look at.
and you know that from...
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  #13025  
Old 24.09.2020, 21:16
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Re: Coronavirus

Personally I prefer to look at numbers of hospitalisations and deaths.
Those numbers would appear more reliable than the positive test cases, which judging by this thread, seem open for discussion.

However 10 people dying in a day from a population of 60,000,000+ is hardly the thing of nightmares.
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  #13026  
Old 24.09.2020, 21:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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However 10 people dying in a day from a population of 60,000,000+ is hardly the thing of nightmares.
For the relatives it is. And this is in addition to anything else.

Deaths in Germany today 19. Not much as you say with a population of over 80 million. New infections over 2000 and that is only Germany.

Source: RKI Covid19 Germany
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  #13027  
Old 25.09.2020, 00:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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from the article: "Because colleges report data differently, and because cases continued to emerge even in the months when most campuses were closed, The Times is counting all reported cases since the start of the pandemic". (Italics mine)


Additionally, the deaths are all attributed to employees working at colleges (no students) and given the above statement, may have occurred prior to colleges opening back up. (Makes for a scarier headline that way!)
"the deaths are all attributed to employees working at colleges " So? I doubt colleges would work well without any employed teachers.
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  #13028  
Old 25.09.2020, 09:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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"the deaths are all attributed to employees working at colleges " So? I doubt colleges would work well without any employed teachers.
It’s not just the teachers though. It’s the housekeepers, maintenance staff, food service, admin/office staff and of course faculty.
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  #13029  
Old 25.09.2020, 09:41
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Re: Coronavirus

Deaths per million ... just a small selection ...
Spain - 665
USA - 625
UK - 616
Italy - 590
Sweden - 581
Mexico - 580
France - 483

Sweden is starting to look respectable.
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  #13030  
Old 25.09.2020, 10:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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Deaths per million ... just a small selection ...
Spain - 665
USA - 625
UK - 616
Italy - 590
Sweden - 581
Mexico - 580
France - 483

Sweden is starting to look respectable.
...and Switzerland trailing at 238 per million.
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  #13031  
Old 25.09.2020, 10:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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Deaths per million ... just a small selection ...
Spain - 665
USA - 625
UK - 616
Italy - 590
Sweden - 581
Mexico - 580
France - 483

Sweden is starting to look respectable.
Denmark - 111
Norway - 50
Finland - 62

I'd reassess that respectability if I were you.
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  #13032  
Old 25.09.2020, 10:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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Denmark - 111
Norway - 50
Finland - 62

I'd reassess that respectability if I were you.

Taiwan 0.3
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Old 25.09.2020, 10:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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Taiwan 0.3
And Vatican City, the Seychelles and a few others, 0.0. But they don't border on Sweden.
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  #13034  
Old 25.09.2020, 11:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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And Vatican City, the Seychelles and a few others, 0.0. But they don't border on Sweden.
Countries with small populations distort the figures:

For example San Morino, pop 33,948, is 1,237 per million...

(I don't even know where it is)
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  #13035  
Old 25.09.2020, 12:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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Countries with small populations distort the figures:

For example San Morino, pop 33,948, is 1,237 per million...

(I don't even know where it is)

In Italy (or surrounded by Italy).


Interesting that all the top countries in the deaths/million list are either english-speaking or a latin language. Sweden is the highest non-english/latin.
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Old 25.09.2020, 12:17
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Re: Coronavirus

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Countries with small populations distort the figures:

For example San Morino, pop 33,948, is 1,237 per million...

(I don't even know where it is)
Yes, either up or down. That too. But my point, of course, is that the Nordic countries* that I listed have populations, cultures and economies that are broadly similar (Finland is always a bit of an odd one out, though), yet Sweden has a death rate more than 5x its neighbours'—and there's only one reason for that.

* There's also Iceland, but I left it out because it is an island and has a small population. Its COVID-19 death rate is just 29 per million population, for reference.
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  #13037  
Old 25.09.2020, 12:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes, either up or down. That too. But my point, of course, is that the Nordic countries* that I listed have populations, cultures and economies that are broadly similar (Finland is always a bit of an odd one out, though), yet Sweden has a death rate more than 5x its neighbours'—and there's only one reason for that.
Honestly, it's immensely difficult to understand why some people here on EF struggle to comprehend this after 13000 posts.
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  #13038  
Old 25.09.2020, 13:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes, either up or down. That too. But my point, of course, is that the Nordic countries* that I listed have populations, cultures and economies that are broadly similar (Finland is always a bit of an odd one out, though), yet Sweden has a death rate more than 5x its neighbours'—and there's only one reason for that.

* There's also Iceland, but I left it out because it is an island and has a small population. Its COVID-19 death rate is just 29 per million population, for reference.
Apropos of nothing, from today's news.
A cluster of around 100 Covid-19 cases in Iceland has been traced back to two French tourists who refused to isolate, a local newspaper reports.

The French pair arrived in Iceland in mid-August and were instructed to remain in isolation after testing positive for the coronavirus, the country’s chief epidemiologist Þórólfur Guðnason said.

“I have information that it was difficult to get them to follow instructions,” he stated. “I really cannot say more.”
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  #13039  
Old 25.09.2020, 14:03
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Re: Coronavirus

Ontario, Canada, just like Sweden and many countries in the world now, will not be implementing a lock down for the incoming second wave of infections, a copy of the fall pandemic preparedness plan obtained by the media.

Refreshing news.
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  #13040  
Old 25.09.2020, 14:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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Honestly, it's immensely difficult to understand why some people here on EF struggle to comprehend this after 13000 posts.
Interesting news today
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Asked what had prevented Sweden from so far suffering a second wave like those seen in Spain and elsewhere, Anders Tegnell downplayed the importance of immunity and said achieving 'herd immunity' had never been a goal of Sweden's strategy.

Dr Tegnell said:

I'm not sure that the level of immunity in Sweden and in Spain differs very much.

I think the main difference between Sweden and many other countries is that we have had the same kind of restrictions and recommendations in place the whole time.

And we have a really big adherence from the population to those recommendations. And that makes a difference, that makes us hopefully less susceptible to a second wave.
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