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  #13061  
Old 25.09.2020, 20:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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In that news report, Tegnell says, "In Sweden, we kept the same actions in place the whole time, the same recommendations, the same regulations and the people have adhered to them very well"

That's not the same as "the same kind of actions", etc., especially when couched as "the main difference between Sweden and many other countries". The obvious question is, "the same kind as what?", and the obvious answer, "the same as the other countries to which Tegnell is comparing Sweden".
Totally agree. Tegnell is just saying they've been consistent as opposed to going into and easing lockdown measures. Only time will tell if his light touch approach stands up to examination. It's not the course I'd have taken personally, as I'm far more along the lines of Ardern. Bit disturbing that Johnson is consulting with him.

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How many average Swiss households have a spare bedroom and a spare bathroom, with room service on offer?
Very few I would think.
Back in April, I self-isolated for 4 days as a precaution because I had a sore throat, cough, etc, but no temp increase. Turned out to be hayfever 2 months earlier than I usually get it, but it took a couple of days for the antihistamines to kick in. Our apartment is only 65 sqm. I took the living room and 2nd loo, which is smaller than many public toilet cubicles. My OH had the bedroom, bathroom and kitchen diner as he was working from the kitchen table.
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  #13062  
Old 25.09.2020, 20:52
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Re: Coronavirus

Some 10,000 more deaths than usual have occurred in peoples’ private homes since mid June, long after the peak in Covid deaths, prompting fears that people may still be avoiding health services and delaying sending their loved ones to care homes.

Experts are citing resistance from the public to enter hospitals or home care settings and “deconditioning” caused by decreased physical activity among older people shielding at home, for example not walking around a supermarket or garden centre as they might normally.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...mes-since-june
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  #13063  
Old 25.09.2020, 20:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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Ontario has half the cases per capita as Switzerland. Canada has a 14-day quarantine for all travellers and masks for ages 2 and up on planes and in many schools. A friend is in the hospital in Toronto and needs a covid test for every procedure so that any cases can be contained before it spreads throughout a hospital. She's been tested twice a week for her entire hospital stay. Someone on her ward tested positive and even the roommate of that patient didn't test positive. Canada is taking this much more seriously.
2??? Good luck with that.
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  #13064  
Old 25.09.2020, 21:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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Nothing, except for this glaring bit:

It would seem that marton has spoken on my behalf, as I was so slow in responding.

And yes, I think Tegnell is taking some liberties in characterising Sweden's response as "the same kind" as other countries'.
People seem to like worldometers so their 7 day average new cases numbers today;

Sweden 361
Switzerland 385

Of course, Sweden has around 25% more population.
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  #13065  
Old 25.09.2020, 21:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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Please thank or groan if you don't want to hear a single word about Sweden anymore.
Quoting myself. Am I the only one getting tired of hearing about Anders Tegnall?
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  #13066  
Old 25.09.2020, 22:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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Quoting myself. Am I the only one getting tired of hearing about Anders Tegnall?

No! I want the Sweden of boring cars, blond women, cheap furniture, ABBA and Zlatan back.
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  #13067  
Old 25.09.2020, 22:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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No! I want the Sweden of boring cars, blond women, cheap furniture, ABBA and Zlatan back.
Swedish cars are still boring. Blondes are still blondes, although more and more surgically "optimized" - at least what I see in Stockholm. IKEA still sucks. ABBA still dead. And who or what is Zlatan?
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  #13068  
Old 25.09.2020, 23:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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What's the logic here? Does the threshold of 60 per 100.000 in 14 days still apply? With that logic, Trentino-Alto Adige should have also made the list. Or is this because it borders CH?

What a shit show.
So should Vorarlberg with knobs on. Rate there is about 120. But given about half of Vorarlberg works in CH or FL it would be a bit meaningless.
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  #13069  
Old 25.09.2020, 23:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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  #13070  
Old 25.09.2020, 23:25
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Re: Coronavirus

@komsomolez

Nice graphs but would you care to explain why the second wave is not so bad as the first? Or was that irony?
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  #13071  
Old 25.09.2020, 23:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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@komsomolez

Nice graphs but would you care to explain why the second wave is not so bad as the first? Or was that irony?
It is not my statement, source is The Economist. Shows that adjusted for the much increased testing, cases are not as high as in spring. Also, treatment effect in hospitals seems much better now as medical staff knows much more and can deploy more effective measures.

I am not opining, but found this an interesting analysis of the data. Feel free to see this differently.
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  #13072  
Old 25.09.2020, 23:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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It is not my statement, source is The Economist. Shows that adjusted for the much increased testing, cases are not as high as in spring. Also, treatment effect in hospitals seems much better now as medical staff knows much more and can deploy more effective measures.

I am not opining, but found this an interesting analysis of the data. Feel free to see this differently.
Would have been better if you gave your source.

From today's Economist "The covid-19 pandemic is worse than official figures show" Source.

True that "treatment effect in hospitals seems much better" but the downside of that is people stay in hospital much longer so increasing the pressure on limited hospital facilities.
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  #13073  
Old 25.09.2020, 23:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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Would have been better if you gave your source.

From today's Economist "The covid-19 pandemic is worse than official figures show" Source.

True that "treatment effect in hospitals seems much better" but the downside of that is people stay in hospital much longer so increasing the pressure on limited hospital facilities.
I am not debating, but thought some more data and analysis would help the discussion here. We can of course go back into trenches and try to selectively find data points that support our individual beliefs.
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Old 25.09.2020, 23:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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It is not my statement, source is The Economist. Shows that adjusted for the much increased testing, cases are not as high as in spring. Also, treatment effect in hospitals seems much better now as medical staff knows much more and can deploy more effective measures.

I am not opining, but found this an interesting analysis of the data. Feel free to see this differently.
Yes... inexpensive steroids have proven to be very effective in treating this virus.
That and the most who seem to be infected in Switzerland at least, are 18-30 year olds - whose symptoms /severity do not warrant hospital admission.

That said, I find it puzzling that Switzerland are "quarantining" those from high risk countries and yet bars and after hour clubs are open. And the highest rate of infection in Switzerland comes from those who frequent bars and after hours clubs?? Even the nice Swiss guy I contacted from the Covid hotline in Zurich (I had questions about my quarantine) agreed this did not seem "consistent".

Hmmm...

Last edited by terrifisch; 26.09.2020 at 00:17.
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  #13075  
Old 26.09.2020, 00:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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Swedish cars are still boring.
A randomly selected Swedish car. One that even Zlatan can't afford.

https://www.koenigsegg.com/wp-conten...solut_back.jpg

Last edited by 3Wishes; 26.09.2020 at 11:32. Reason: dat's a yuuuuuuge image ;)
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  #13076  
Old 26.09.2020, 00:58
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Re: Coronavirus

Not bad. Now do the blondes.
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  #13077  
Old 26.09.2020, 01:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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I am not debating, but thought some more data and analysis would help the discussion here. We can of course go back into trenches and try to selectively find data points that support our individual beliefs.
You share a contentious statement that "the second wave is not so bad as the first" and then do not want to debate it!
Or we could share some other relevant data like hopitalisations which is one of the drivers for lockdowns like this US group do.

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  #13078  
Old 26.09.2020, 02:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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Not bad. Now do the blondes.
I think the wife might object.
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  #13079  
Old 26.09.2020, 08:09
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Re: Coronavirus

Switzerland:
Death rates are falling (mainly due to better treatment and protection of the elderly?)
Infecting rates are rising slowly
Conclusion: keep the "soft" measures in place (masks, distancing, hygiene etc)

Does this apply to the UK, USA, Madrid etc ? Not easy policy decisions.

Suggestion that the virus is mutating to become more contagious and less lethal -makes sense from a biological point of view. What happens if a restrictions are eased and a more lethal mutant arises?
If it is mutating similarly to the usual flu viruses, then we are in for a future of yearly vaccinations not offering complete protection.
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  #13080  
Old 26.09.2020, 10:13
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Re: Coronavirus

Belgium announced a loosening of coronavirus restrictions on Wednesday, despite the country's rising infection rate.

Face masks will only be mandatory in crowded places from October 1, the country's prime minister Sophie Wilmes said on Wednesday. Currently, the masks are required everywhere at all times.

The virus is not going away, but life must restart eventually."

https://www.euronews.com/2020/09/24/...tion-rate-rise
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