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  #13081  
Old 26.09.2020, 10:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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Switzerland:
Death rates are falling (mainly due to better treatment and protection of the elderly?)
Infecting rates are rising slowly
Conclusion: keep the "soft" measures in place (masks, distancing, hygiene etc)

Does this apply to the UK, USA, Madrid etc ? Not easy policy decisions.

Suggestion that the virus is mutating to become more contagious and less lethal -makes sense from a biological point of view. What happens if a restrictions are eased and a more lethal mutant arises?
If it is mutating similarly to the usual flu viruses, then we are in for a future of yearly vaccinations not offering complete protection.
It is a characteristic of coronaviruses that they mutate much more slowly than flu viruses which, presumably, is why they are pinning hopes on a vaccine.
That is not to say it is not possible for a more lethal mutant to emerge, one ray of hope amongst gloom - very lethal viruses tend to burn themselves out.
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  #13082  
Old 26.09.2020, 10:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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Belgium announced a loosening of coronavirus restrictions on Wednesday, despite the country's rising infection rate.

Face masks will only be mandatory in crowded places from October 1, the country's prime minister Sophie Wilmes said on Wednesday. Currently, the masks are required everywhere at all times.

The virus is not going away, but life must restart eventually."

https://www.euronews.com/2020/09/24/...tion-rate-rise
Somewhat exaggerated, wearing face masks in deserted areas was always a poor idea, and reversing that is hardly a giant step towards restarting life.

I wonder how the Belgians are supposed to recognise what are mandatory crowded places; without a good definition I suppose many people will continue to play safe and wear the masks all the time.
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  #13083  
Old 26.09.2020, 11:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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Somewhat exaggerated, wearing face masks in deserted areas was always a poor idea, and reversing that is hardly a giant step towards restarting life.

I wonder how the Belgians are supposed to recognise what are mandatory crowded places; without a good definition I suppose many people will continue to play safe and wear the masks all the time.
Yep, it’s a bit of a non story really.

Wearing them everywhere even when outside was always a stupid idea.

They’re still obligatory in shops, cinemas, museums etc and on public transport so in reality little has changed.
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  #13084  
Old 26.09.2020, 11:16
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Re: Coronavirus

Florida reopens state’s economy despite ongoing pandemic

Gov. Ron DeSantis lifted all restrictions on restaurants and other businesses in Florida on Friday, and banned local fines against people who refuse to wear masks as he seeks to reopen the state's economy despite the spread of the coronavirus.
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  #13085  
Old 26.09.2020, 12:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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Florida reopens state’s economy despite ongoing pandemic

Gov. Ron DeSantis lifted all restrictions on restaurants and other businesses in Florida on Friday, and banned local fines against people who refuse to wear masks as he seeks to reopen the state's economy despite the spread of the coronavirus.
"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread"

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  #13086  
Old 26.09.2020, 12:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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Florida reopens state’s economy despite ongoing pandemic

Gov. Ron DeSantis lifted all restrictions on restaurants and other businesses in Florida on Friday, and banned local fines against people who refuse to wear masks as he seeks to reopen the state's economy despite the spread of the coronavirus.
DeSantis is a moron, and this is sure to backfire. Florida has 13 cases per 100000 per day, so using this Swiss definition of high-risk (60 per 100k per 14 days) this is equivalent to 182 per 100k.
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  #13087  
Old 26.09.2020, 13:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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DeSantis is a moron, and this is sure to backfire. Florida has 13 cases per 100000 per day, so using this Swiss definition of high-risk (60 per 100k per 14 days) this is equivalent to 182 per 100k.
I believe DeSantis and people who think like him are taking a utilitarian/Star Trek approach: the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

According to Worldometers, the 7-day rolling average of Covid deaths in Florida is around 100. For a population of over 24 million.

It's not a stretch to see why he feels it's worth the risk to just let it all go. Even at the height of the pandemic, the highest death toll they listed was 274 in one day.

If he does the most basic math and ignores long-term effects on survivors, this seems like an acceptable risk to take...for now, anyway.
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  #13088  
Old 26.09.2020, 14:06
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Re: Coronavirus

Aaaand we are back in local lockdown.
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  #13089  
Old 26.09.2020, 14:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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Aaaand we are back in local lockdown.
That sucks. What level/how strict of lockdown?

I hope you stocked up on loo paper.


Sorry, have to find something to laugh about these days.
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  #13090  
Old 26.09.2020, 14:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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I believe DeSantis and people who think like him are taking a utilitarian/Star Trek approach: the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.
Yeah, and if I had a sickbay like the USS Enterprise, I'd do the same.

DeSantis is a Trump poodle and I bet the main motive here is to signal "totally normal, pandemic over, vaccine basically ready" before the election.
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  #13091  
Old 26.09.2020, 14:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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I believe DeSantis and people who think like him are taking a utilitarian/Star Trek approach: the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

According to Worldometers, the 7-day rolling average of Covid deaths in Florida is around 100. For a population of over 24 million.

It's not a stretch to see why he feels it's worth the risk to just let it all go. Even at the height of the pandemic, the highest death toll they listed was 274 in one day.

If he does the most basic math and ignores long-term effects on survivors, this seems like an acceptable risk to take...for now, anyway.
But the risk is hospitalisations not deaths. If the hospitals get overloaded, deaths will sky rocket and it will be too late to step back.

Currently Florida hospitalisations are low versus the peak of the pandemic.
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  #13092  
Old 26.09.2020, 15:31
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Re: Coronavirus

Germany’s Minister of Economic Cooperation and Development, Gerd Muller, has warned that lockdown measures throughout the globe will end up killing more people than the Coronavirus itself.

We expect an additional 400,000 deaths from malaria and HIV this year on the African continent alone,” Muller emphasised, adding that “half a million more will die from tuberculosis.”

Hundreds of doctors are also on record as opposing lockdown measures, warning that they will cause more death than the coronavirus itself.
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  #13093  
Old 26.09.2020, 16:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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Germany’s Minister of Economic Cooperation and Development, Gerd Muller, has warned that lockdown measures throughout the globe will end up killing more people than the Coronavirus itself.

We expect an additional 400,000 deaths from malaria and HIV this year on the African continent alone,” Muller emphasised, adding that “half a million more will die from tuberculosis.”

Hundreds of doctors are also on record as opposing lockdown measures, warning that they will cause more death than the coronavirus itself.
Lockdowns do not cause malaria or HIV or tuberculosis. These sources are making clickbait headlines to lure you and others in. It's shameful and misleading.

Instead of implying lockdowns cause more deaths, the authors should clearly state that healthcare facilities are open and people need to seek appropriate care if they are feeling unwell. What happens instead is folks read the clickbait headline and are left with the impression that healthcare facilities aren't open so they are stuck and have to suffer. Or they might realize facilities are open, but don't want to go because A) they don't want to take a spot from someone who needs it more or B) they're afraid of catching covid or whatever else.

In fact from your Forbes article, it's not lockdowns but patient fears of catching covid that are keeping people away from healthcare facilities: "...patients fearful of visiting hospitals and doctors’ offices are dying because COVID-phobia is keeping them from seeking care..."

It's going to take education campaigns and not fear-mongering campaigns to get past that. So please don't watch CNN or you'll think you need to live in a bunker for the next year.
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  #13094  
Old 26.09.2020, 16:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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Germany’s Minister of Economic Cooperation and Development, Gerd Muller, has warned that lockdown measures throughout the globe will end up killing more people than the Coronavirus itself.

We expect an additional 400,000 deaths from malaria and HIV this year on the African continent alone,” Muller emphasised, adding that “half a million more will die from tuberculosis.”

Hundreds of doctors are also on record as opposing lockdown measures, warning that they will cause more death than the coronavirus itself.
That letter is dated May 19th. That was over 4 months ago.
I read through the letter, and its premise is basically that the closing of hospitals and doctor's offices to non-COVID patients is the problem, not necessary lockdown measures in general. I think restrictions can be put in place (and have been put in place) where hospitals don't close to non-COVID patients. There is a difference between someone not going to a hospital and someone not being able to eat at a crowded restaurant or go shopping at H&M.
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  #13095  
Old 26.09.2020, 18:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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That said, I find it puzzling that Switzerland are "quarantining" those from high risk countries and yet bars and after hour clubs are open. And the highest rate of infection in Switzerland comes from those who frequent bars and after hours clubs?? Even the nice Swiss guy I contacted from the Covid hotline in Zurich (I had questions about my quarantine) agreed this did not seem "consistent".

Hmmm...
Border controls and measures are the federal government's authority, bars and clubs however (basically everything else for that matter) the respective Canton's.

It seems to have taken a national SMH towards the Vaudois and Genevois, government and population alike, to make them unplug their ten fingers and finally do their part.
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Old 26.09.2020, 19:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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How many average Swiss households have a spare bedroom and a spare bathroom, with room service on offer?
Most do, functionally, it's called livingroom. Seems bearable for ten days or less.

The instructions aren't to live alone or use the bathroom exclusively but to stay home (or another suitable room/apartment) and avoid contact.
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I believe DeSantis and people who think like him are taking a utilitarian/Star Trek approach: the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

According to Worldometers, the 7-day rolling average of Covid deaths in Florida is around 100. For a population of over 24 million.

It's not a stretch to see why he feels it's worth the risk to just let it all go. Even at the height of the pandemic, the highest death toll they listed was 274 in one day.

If he does the most basic math and ignores long-term effects on survivors, this seems like an acceptable risk to take...for now, anyway.
The problem with that is, they should test much more, like, 3-4 times as much. Currently the test-positive rate in Florida sits at 10% (7-day average) according to Johns Hopkins.
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  #13097  
Old 26.09.2020, 20:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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Zlatan back.
Zlatan got corona
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  #13098  
Old 26.09.2020, 20:21
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Somewhat exaggerated, wearing face masks in deserted areas was always a poor idea
and, it seems, it doesnt helps

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Florida has 13 cases per 100000 per day, so using this Swiss definition of high-risk (60 per 100k per 14 days) this is equivalent to 182 per 100k.
I thought its average, not cumulative

Last edited by roegner; 26.09.2020 at 22:03.
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  #13099  
Old 26.09.2020, 21:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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Most do, functionally, it's called livingroom. Seems bearable for ten days or less.

The instructions aren't to live alone or use the bathroom exclusively but to stay home (or another suitable room/apartment) and avoid contact.

The problem with that is, they should test much more, like, 3-4 times as much. Currently the test-positive rate in Florida sits at 10% (7-day average) according to Johns Hopkins.
But...but... the more you test the more positives you get, which you don't want. Slow down the testing! says Pres Trump.
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Old 26.09.2020, 22:25
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But...but... the more you test the more positives you get, which you don't want. Slow down the testing! says Pres Trump.
Therein lies the conundrum! Why do people keep focussing on positive tests if hospitalizations are lower as are fatalities? This is a virus after all and of course infections will increase. But inso far as hospitalizations are low (notwithstanding fatalities which are lower) why the hysteria/outcry?

I just don't get it! And I have read much scientific, economic and other research which leaves me perplexed as to why countries impose lockdowns/semi lockdowns etc... Have they weighed the economic cost notwithstanding the psychological cost?

No..they have not because most of what is written in the press focuses on scientists/epidemiologists who have zero clue about economics- notwithstanding psychology and how both play a factor in terms of death/fatalities (Those who avoid regular screening as they are afraid of catching Covid and those who are depressed /suicidal).

Incidentally, Corona specific fatalities are lower as new remedies (steroids for instance) have been proven effective; so why the constant focus on infections? This is a virus and it "needs" to run its course... Sad but true...
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