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  #13101  
Old 26.09.2020, 22:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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Therein lies the conundrum! Why do people keep focussing on positive tests if hospitalizations are lower as are fatalities? This is a virus after all and of course infections will increase. But inso far as hospitalizations are low (notwithstanding fatalities which are lower) why the hysteria/outcry?

I just don't get it! And I have read much scientific, economic and other research which leaves me perplexed as to why countries impose lockdowns/semi lockdowns etc... Have they weighed the economic cost notwithstanding the psychological cost?

No..they have not because most of what is written in the press focuses on scientists/epidemiologists who have zero clue about economics- notwithstanding psychology and how both play a factor in terms of death/fatalities (Those who avoid regular screening as they are afraid of catching Covid and those who are depressed /suicidal).

Incidentally, Corona specific fatalities are lower as new remedies (steroids for instance) have been proven effective; so why the constant focus on infections? This is a virus and it "needs" to run its course... Sad but true...
Fabulous post, I don't understand how so few get it.
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  #13102  
Old 26.09.2020, 23:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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But...but... the more you test the more positives you get, which you don't want. Slow down the testing! says Pres Trump.
Finally, a solution to the problem of too many teenage pregnancies, stop pregnancy testing.
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  #13103  
Old 27.09.2020, 00:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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Therein lies the conundrum! Why do people keep focussing on positive tests if hospitalizations are lower as are fatalities? This is a virus after all and of course infections will increase. But inso far as hospitalizations are low (notwithstanding fatalities which are lower) why the hysteria/outcry?

I just don't get it! And I have read much scientific, economic and other research which leaves me perplexed as to why countries impose lockdowns/semi lockdowns etc... Have they weighed the economic cost notwithstanding the psychological cost?

No..they have not because most of what is written in the press focuses on scientists/epidemiologists who have zero clue about economics- notwithstanding psychology and how both play a factor in terms of death/fatalities (Those who avoid regular screening as they are afraid of catching Covid and those who are depressed /suicidal).

Incidentally, Corona specific fatalities are lower as new remedies (steroids for instance) have been proven effective; so why the constant focus on infections? This is a virus and it "needs" to run its course... Sad but true...
Of course, the key metric is hospitalizations. So long as the rate stays low then no problem.

Countries impose lockdowns/semi lockdowns etc. to minimise hospitalizations .
If the rate of hospitalizations stays consistently low then we will see countries slowly retreating from those restrictions but that needs solid and unequivocal data. No government is going to risk a major catastrophe without good data.

Economic cost and psychological cost considerations are important but most governments put keeping as many of their their citizens alive as possible as more important; no Govt. wants to be responsible for hundreds of thousands or millions of deaths (outside of the US and Brazil).
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  #13104  
Old 27.09.2020, 01:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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Lockdowns do not cause malaria or HIV or tuberculosis. These sources are making clickbait headlines to lure you and others in. It's shameful and misleading......
V__ quoted the wrong parts of the article and you did not read what was linked.

SMS from Nigeria, April 2020: <<It's been terrible here. No one goes out, there is soldiers everywhere, no food. Hunger is even killing more people than the virus>>
This is fact, not media.
And it has not become any better, 5 months later!
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Old 27.09.2020, 07:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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Therein lies the conundrum! Why do people keep focussing on positive tests if hospitalizations are lower as are fatalities? This is a virus after all and of course infections will increase. But inso far as hospitalizations are low (notwithstanding fatalities which are lower) why the hysteria/outcry?

I just don't get it! And I have read much scientific, economic and other research which leaves me perplexed as to why countries impose lockdowns/semi lockdowns etc... Have they weighed the economic cost notwithstanding the psychological cost?

No..they have not because most of what is written in the press focuses on scientists/epidemiologists who have zero clue about economics- notwithstanding psychology and how both play a factor in terms of death/fatalities (Those who avoid regular screening as they are afraid of catching Covid and those who are depressed /suicidal).

Incidentally, Corona specific fatalities are lower as new remedies (steroids for instance) have been proven effective; so why the constant focus on infections? This is a virus and it "needs" to run its course... Sad but true...
This.

An anecdote on the psychological stuff: An Italian friend who lives here told me how a few of her friends back in Italy kept telling their children they couldn't leave the house because of the "corona monster" that was lurking outside. Fast forward a few months later, the kids don't want to leave anymore because of that monster. Yeah that's gonna make for some healthy upbringing right there. And especially school isn't just about teaching stuff, it's socialization too. Teaching children to be afraid of others will end very well too. These may be exceptions, but since all decisions are being made mostly based on exceptions...

As for malaria and hunger: there are very recent articles and studies that outline the huge negative effect all these measures already had and are likely continue to have. Guess few care cause Africa.
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  #13106  
Old 27.09.2020, 08:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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Therein lies the conundrum! Why do people keep focussing on positive tests if hospitalizations are lower as are fatalities? This is a virus after all and of course infections will increase. But inso far as hospitalizations are low (notwithstanding fatalities which are lower) why the hysteria/outcry?

I just don't get it! And I have read much scientific, economic and other research which leaves me perplexed as to why countries impose lockdowns/semi lockdowns etc... Have they weighed the economic cost notwithstanding the psychological cost?

No..they have not because most of what is written in the press focuses on scientists/epidemiologists who have zero clue about economics- notwithstanding psychology and how both play a factor in terms of death/fatalities (Those who avoid regular screening as they are afraid of catching Covid and those who are depressed /suicidal).

Incidentally, Corona specific fatalities are lower as new remedies (steroids for instance) have been proven effective; so why the constant focus on infections? This is a virus and it "needs" to run its course... Sad but true...
The media concentrates on positive tests because it is an easy, relatively reliable number and makes for good headlines.
Countries choose lockdowns because the death rate is otherwise to high (eg Brazil, Spain, N. Italy) and the economic and psychological cost is too high (eg Northern Italy)
Travel restrictions are also politically opportune all over the world (controlling immigration, dissent etc).
The stress and economic hardship caused by the pandemic itself - is that higher or lower than the stress caused by lockdowns - who knows?
Thank goodness scientists/epidemiologists sometimes have more say than economists. Wars are often good for the economy, especially if they are waged overseas -at home they are more of an economic problem and some of us might die and not just some of them.
This is the new normal. Economies will adapt - they have to. People will adapt - they have to. Maybe, just maybe, some of the changes will be for the good.

"This is a virus and it "needs" to run its course... Sad but true..." Sounds good but is total BS. Polio virus, measles, HPV to name but a few.
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  #13107  
Old 27.09.2020, 09:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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Polio virus, measles, HPV to name but a few.
HPV? What? I'm assuming you mean HIV
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  #13108  
Old 27.09.2020, 10:04
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Re: Coronavirus

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HPV? What? I'm assuming you mean HIV
HPV = human papillom virus
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  #13109  
Old 27.09.2020, 11:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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HPV? What? I'm assuming you mean HIV
Our son and our daughter are both immunised against HPV. For your own health I would recommend getting the jab.
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Old 27.09.2020, 12:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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HPV? What? I'm assuming you mean HIV
HPV most commonly manifests as genital warts and can have more serious complications with women.

Sadly, adults above 27 aren't recommended to be immunized.
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  #13111  
Old 27.09.2020, 12:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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Of course, the key metric is hospitalizations. So long as the rate stays low then no problem.

Countries impose lockdowns/semi lockdowns etc. to minimise hospitalizations .
If the rate of hospitalizations stays consistently low then we will see countries slowly retreating from those restrictions but that needs solid and unequivocal data. No government is going to risk a major catastrophe without good data.

Economic cost and psychological cost considerations are important but most governments put keeping as many of their their citizens alive as possible as more important; no Govt. wants to be responsible for hundreds of thousands or millions of deaths (outside of the US and Brazil).
Let's not forget of the psychological costs for the families of the hundreds of thousands of people who've died, millions who've been hospitalized and for all those who've had to take care of them. Not to mention the millions more who would physically and psychologically suffer from the direct effects of the virus if we are to do nothing as we approach winter.
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  #13112  
Old 27.09.2020, 12:53
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Re: Coronavirus

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HPV most commonly manifests as genital warts and can have more serious complications with women.

Sadly, adults above 27 aren't recommended to be immunized.
It can have serious implications for both men and women. Cancer of the mouth and throat cancer are both linked to hpv.

Neuch‚tel offers a free vaccination programme for both males and females up the the age of 26, Iím sure other cantons do the same. Our son has been vaccinated.

After 26 the vaccine is considered less effective but does still have some benefits.
Itís quite a expensive though and not reimbursed by health insurance.
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Old 27.09.2020, 14:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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HPV = human papillom virus
I know what it is but fail(ed) to see a connection to the rest of the comment and the other two diseases.

Also, lighten up on the groaning geez. So asking any form of question is no longer allowed?

No wonder people get tired of writing here.
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  #13114  
Old 27.09.2020, 14:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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I know what it is but fail(ed) to see a connection to the rest of the comment and the other two diseases.

Also, lighten up on the groaning geez. So asking any form of question is no longer allowed?

No wonder people get tired of writing here.
It would have taken you two minutes to google HPV
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Old 27.09.2020, 16:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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This.

An anecdote on the psychological stuff: An Italian friend who lives here told me how a few of her friends back in Italy kept telling their children they couldn't leave the house because of the "corona monster" that was lurking outside. Fast forward a few months later, the kids don't want to leave anymore because of that monster. Yeah that's gonna make for some healthy upbringing right there. And especially school isn't just about teaching stuff, it's socialization too. Teaching children to be afraid of others will end very well too. These may be exceptions, but since all decisions are being made mostly based on exceptions...
Well, the problem with that isn't the restrictions, but the way your friend handled it by inducing irrational fear in her children by convincing them that the coronavirus was some kind of "monster" lurking outside waiting to get them. You can teach your kids about the virus and the pandemic, etc. without simultaneously teaching them to have irrational fears.
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Old 27.09.2020, 18:05
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Our son and our daughter are both immunised against HPV. For your own health I would recommend getting the jab.
Unless they are a 40 year old virgin it's too late for the vax
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Old 27.09.2020, 18:07
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It can have serious implications for both men and women. Cancer of the mouth and throat cancer are both linked to hpv.

Neuch‚tel offers a free vaccination programme for both males and females up the the age of 26, Iím sure other cantons do the same. Our son has been vaccinated.

After 26 the vaccine is considered less effective but does still have some benefits.
Itís quite a expensive though and not reimbursed by health insurance.
It's not the age but the fact people are already exposed via sexual partners, no? Most people over a certain age have the virus already
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Old 27.09.2020, 18:38
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That sucks. What level/how strict of lockdown?

I hope you stocked up on loo paper.


Sorry, have to find something to laugh about these days.
Can't socialise with anyone outside of the people you live with either inside homes or outside in gardens. But can meet in a group of 6 in a pub. But only before 10pm as presumably covid-19 likes to party hard after then.

Go to work but work from home if you can. Even if you work with more than people it's fine. But you can't socialise with the same bunch.

Kids still in school but can't have playdates or birthday parties, despite them being in a group of 30 plus all week and, by extension, all family members too.

Formal/informal childcare is ok for under 14s (but defo no play dates or parties)

Basically, if it's free you can't do it. If it generates income you can. If they could monetise my kids seeing their grandparents I'm sure it would suddenly be allowed, It's irritating and non-sensical but that's our gov't for you.

Still plenty of loo roll to be had at the mo.

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Therein lies the conundrum! Why do people keep focussing on positive tests if hospitalizations are lower as are fatalities? This is a virus after all and of course infections will increase. But inso far as hospitalizations are low (notwithstanding fatalities which are lower) why the hysteria/outcry?

I just don't get it! And I have read much scientific, economic and other research which leaves me perplexed as to why countries impose lockdowns/semi lockdowns etc... Have they weighed the economic cost notwithstanding the psychological cost?

No..they have not because most of what is written in the press focuses on scientists/epidemiologists who have zero clue about economics- notwithstanding psychology and how both play a factor in terms of death/fatalities (Those who avoid regular screening as they are afraid of catching Covid and those who are depressed /suicidal).

Incidentally, Corona specific fatalities are lower as new remedies (steroids for instance) have been proven effective; so why the constant focus on infections? This is a virus and it "needs" to run its course... Sad but true...
I understand what you are saying but in parts of the UK hospitalizations are increasing.

Last edited by RufusB; 27.09.2020 at 18:44. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
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Old 27.09.2020, 19:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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Therein lies the conundrum! Why do people keep focussing on positive tests if hospitalizations are lower as are fatalities?...
I have two theories on that. First, I agree with this:

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The media concentrates on positive tests because it is an easy, relatively reliable number and makes for good headlines...
Second, governments are still scratching their heads about the right approach for both health and economy. They are afraid that while numbers look acceptable (?) now, there's still a possibility of a huge second wave as winter comes and then what will they do? As of today it seems the virus has mutated to be more contagious but slightly less deadly. There's no way of knowing whether it will mutate the other way.
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Old 27.09.2020, 19:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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Therein lies the conundrum! Why do people keep focussing on positive tests if hospitalizations are lower as are fatalities? This is a virus after all and of course infections will increase. But inso far as hospitalizations are low (notwithstanding fatalities which are lower) why the hysteria/outcry?
You want the reaction time as short as possible. Hospitalisatons are delayed by one week, deaths another 1-2 weeks. If the numbers were available the focus would probably be on infections as that would reduce the delay by one week or so.

Look back to March/April and consider the difference two or three weeks can make.
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