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Old 08.10.2020, 02:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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That is simply not true. There's no serious, randomized control trial that covers a big enough sample to show anything like this. There's some anecdotal cases, and a few very specific samples. What is long-term effect? What are the symptoms? What were the pre-existing conditions of these supposed cases? These are all un-answered questions. The only fact is, the cases are rising and death rate is not rising even close to it. Stop with the alarmism, we know it's not nearly as lethal as assumed.
Published on the NHS UK website ...

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7 October 2020

Emergency Preparedness, Resilience and ResponsePatient care
People suffering ‘long covid’ symptoms will be offered specialist help at clinics across England, the head of the NHS announced today.

Respiratory consultants, physiotherapists, other specialists and GPs will all help assess, diagnose and treat thousands of sufferers who have reported symptoms ranging from breathlessness, chronic fatigue, “brain fog”, anxiety and stress.

Increasing medical evidence and patient testimony is showing that a small but significant minority of people who contract Covid cannot shake off the effects of the virus months after initially falling ill. Some estimates suggest that 10% of Covid patients may still be experiencing symptoms more than three weeks after infection, and perhaps 60,000 people could be suffering from long covid symptoms after more than three months.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/2020/10/n...ng-covid-help/
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  #13302  
Old 08.10.2020, 02:18
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Re: Coronavirus

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Bottomline: there's no serious and large study that comes up with any figure about long-term effects. Twist it any way you want, there simply isn't.
An Oxford Uni team are presenting their study results tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/trishgreenhalgh/...24552007782401

https://twitter.com/trishgreenhalgh/...07832803258369
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  #13303  
Old 08.10.2020, 05:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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From what I hear about the US, anyway, health systems are still overwhelmed.
They are not.

The only thing overwhelmed these days in the US are the unemployment offices.
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  #13304  
Old 08.10.2020, 09:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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Bottomline: there's no serious and large study that comes up with any figure about long-term effects. Twist it any way you want, there simply isn't.
Of course there isn’t, how can there be?
This virus hasn’t been around long enough for that to happen. How can anybody study the long term effects of something that has been known about for less than a year?
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  #13305  
Old 08.10.2020, 10:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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Of course there isn’t, how can there be?
This virus hasn’t been around long enough for that to happen. How can anybody study the long term effects of something that has been known about for less than a year?
Thank you for confirming what I said, which if you go back to the thread was me challenging a post claiming there was some 40% of people suffering from some supposed long-term effects. Funnily enough, you even liked the post with which you are disagreeing here

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let’s not forget that close to 40% of Covid patients show long term secondary effects.
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That is simply not true.

Last edited by gaburko; 08.10.2020 at 11:10.
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  #13306  
Old 08.10.2020, 11:22
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Re: Coronavirus

Millions of face masks in Switzerland fail to conform to regulations

Ten out of 29 shipments of medical face masks contained products that did not meet regulations, according to an audit conducted by the Federal Customs Administration and Swissmedic.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/million...tions/46081578
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  #13307  
Old 08.10.2020, 11:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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Millions of face masks in Switzerland fail to conform to regulations

Ten out of 29 shipments of medical face masks contained products that did not meet regulations, according to an audit conducted by the Federal Customs Administration and Swissmedic.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/million...tions/46081578
A misleading headline; according to your link unsafe masks were banned.
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  #13308  
Old 08.10.2020, 11:38
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Re: Coronavirus

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A misleading headline; according to your link unsafe masks were banned.
Of course they were banned

But that doesn't change the fact that millions of unsafe masks were imported, this is what happens when every 1 guy Sarl company buys masks from Alibaba in times when masks were in shortage
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Old 08.10.2020, 11:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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Thank you for confirming what I said, which if you go back to the thread was me challenging a post claiming there was some 40% of people suffering from some supposed long-term effects. Funnily enough, you even liked the post with which you are disagreeing here
If you go back and read my posts you’ll see that it’s what I’ve been saying all along.

I don’t understand why you keep banging on about the lack of studies of long term effects when it is patently obvious that they are impossible to do and gain meaningful results from at the moment.

That was only a part of the post, you know you can like something without necessarily agreeing with all of it.You should try it sometime.
Plus I wasn’t even replying to that post, I was replying to your reply to Marton.

Last edited by Belgianmum; 08.10.2020 at 12:37.
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  #13310  
Old 08.10.2020, 12:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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That was only a part of the post, you know you can like something without necessarily agreeing with all of it.You should try it sometime.
But somebody must be right all the time...!

It's all or nothing!

I find it funny that some discussions on this forum get so intense because people don't want to lose face on the interwebz. One has to "crush" their "enemy", put them down, show them their place. "I am smarter and I have multiple degrees and tons of money to prove it." Ridiculous. Some people should work on their sense of ridicule, they're sorely lacking it, despite being the accomplished humans they fancy themselves to be.

Besides, nobody is an expert in covid-19....

Last edited by greenmount; 08.10.2020 at 12:34.
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  #13311  
Old 08.10.2020, 12:38
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Re: Coronavirus

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If you go back and read my posts you’ll see that it’s what I’ve been saying all along.

I don’t understand why you keep banging on about the lack of studies of long term effects when it is patently obvious that they are impossible to do and gain meaningful results at the moment.
And if you go back and read my posts at the top of this page, studies are being done and first results from Oxford Uni are being published this week. From everything I've read, the percentage of long covid cases is around the 10% mark if that, not 40% by any stretch.
There's serious money being raised for future care of long covid patients because it is being recognised as a significant and large scale health issue requiring specialised care which isn't currently present on the scale required.
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  #13312  
Old 08.10.2020, 12:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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And if you go back and read my posts at the top of this page, studies are being done and first results from Oxford Uni are being published this week. From everything I've read, the percentage of long covid cases is around the 10% mark if that, not 40% by any stretch.
There's serious money being raised for future care of long covid patients because it is being recognised as a significant and large scale health issue requiring specialised care which isn't currently present on the scale required.
The key point there is that they are being done, it is an ongoing thing and any results obtained at the moment will only show short or medium term effects as we haven’t even reached long term yet. It is a waiting game to find out how serious and common the long term implications are but studies are being carried out.

Gaburko is asking for the impossible and as a scientist (I think) he should know that.
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  #13313  
Old 08.10.2020, 12:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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Besides, nobody is an expert in covid-19....
Few people are expert on much at the moment. Everything's so fast moving and on many layers.

Saw a cracking post from a uni prof the other day saying, history students in 2050 will be majoring in '1-8 October 2020'.
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  #13314  
Old 08.10.2020, 12:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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The key point there is that they are being done, it is an ongoing thing and any results obtained at the moment will only show short or medium term effects as we haven’t even reached long term yet. It is a waiting game to find out how serious and common the long term implications are but studies are being carried out.
Long term will be 50yrs time. The short term work is getting the condition 1) recognised 2) recognised to the point where funding for care and future research structures can be put into place. The fact that this is happening now, a little more than 8 months into this, is pretty remarkable when other conditions have taken years to get to this point.
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  #13315  
Old 08.10.2020, 13:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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I find it funny that some discussions on this forum get so intense because people don't want to lose face on the interwebz. One has to "crush" their "enemy", put them down, show them their place. "I am smarter and I have multiple degrees and tons of money to prove it." Ridiculous. Some people should work on their sense of ridicule, they're sorely lacking it, despite being the accomplished humans they fancy themselves to be.
It's quite interesting what you say. Help me understand something and please bear with me for a minute.
So, someone makes a claim that is completely indefensible and even provides a data point which cannot be more wrong. This claim gets challenged and along the way everyone seems to agree that the claim was wrong. And yet, the person who challenged seems to be the "bad" guy and the person who made the wrong claim seems to be continuously defended. Why is that? Does it say something about us as humans? Can it be that we are easily misled into a certain direction NOT by the facts, but by who and how things are said?


p.s. I should work on my style, your passive-aggressive tone is much more socially acceptable these days. An honest in-your-face challenge is not seen as good etiquette. People want you to be honest with them, until you are and then you become and as$hole
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  #13316  
Old 08.10.2020, 13:48
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Re: Coronavirus

The New England journal of medicine published an unusual editorial....

Dying in a leadership vacuum.

Describes the frustration of health care workers and researchers. Hospitals may not be overwhelmed, but many health care workers are tired, overwhelmed and discouraged.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.105...=featured_home
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  #13317  
Old 08.10.2020, 14:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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Long term will be 50yrs time. The short term work is getting the condition 1) recognised 2) recognised to the point where funding for care and future research structures can be put into place. The fact that this is happening now, a little more than 8 months into this, is pretty remarkable when other conditions have taken years to get to this point.
Long term with regards to an illness is something with continues six months or more after the original infection.

We are now are the point where studies can be carried out regarding long term consequences and these will probably be ongoing for quite some time.

We have a lot to learn about Covid-19 but due to the global impact of it al lot of time and money is being invested in finding out.
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  #13318  
Old 08.10.2020, 14:53
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Re: Coronavirus

In the meantime 1172 more cases reported today.

Nightclubs close in Ticino plus a mask requirement in shops is introduced.
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Old 08.10.2020, 16:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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They are not.

The only thing overwhelmed these days in the US are the unemployment offices.
Some are nearly there, for example Wisconsin. The governor is opening a field hospital next week to help:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisond...9-cases-surge/

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Thank you for confirming what I said, which if you go back to the thread was me challenging a post claiming there was some 40% of people suffering from some supposed long-term effects. Funnily enough, you even liked the post with which you are disagreeing here
To be honest, you know you're arguing about a simple phrase and it all looks a bit silly. You're trying to prove your point by phrasing long-term as in years. Others are counting many months as long-term. Maybe in the end we'll learn it's both months and years that people continue to struggle.

We don't have years to go on yet, but we do have months. It's clear that some people have lingering effects many months later. This is in stark contrast to flu, where people might feel crap for a few weeks but many months later don't have any lingering effects.

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A misleading headline; according to your link unsafe masks were banned.
Were they? Maybe for import but not for sale? I'm 99% certain that the overpriced box of paper masks I bought at Coop a while back are probably ineffective and don't meet standards, but no one has offered to give me my money back or exchange for something that's approved.
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  #13320  
Old 08.10.2020, 16:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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In the meantime 1172 more cases reported today.

Nightclubs close in Ticino plus a mask requirement in shops is introduced.
Yikes. That's been quite the increase in the past few days. At this rate, I can't help but wonder what the numbers could be a month from now.

I guess this is the "second wave."
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