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  #1321  
Old 01.03.2020, 16:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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Your advice/thoughts. We are booked into a Spa resort in the Valais in 2 weeks. At this time of year, lots of South Koreans and Italians (Loèche-les-Bains/Leukerbad).

Hot water at 45 ish, saunas, steamrooms and jakuzzis. Good idea?
Irrespective of the which nationalities frequent the place at this time of year in all honesty I wouldn’t take the risk.
You both fall into the high risk categories should you contract the virus so in my opinion it’s just not worth it.
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  #1322  
Old 01.03.2020, 16:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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It's a valid point about the grandparents, but you also have to assume that many of these children are spending time with their grandparents anyhow so you have all the kids who are terrible with hygiene packed together for hours every day in school, and then spreading across families. The kids might not be at risk themselves, but they are more likely to help it spread across families.
We've spoken to The Boss/Yiayia/'She who must be obeyed'/OH's mum this morning. She's particularly up beat and full of the joys of spring today, and asked when we'll be going to visit her. When we said we're going to delay it a little while, she said it was a sensible decision and thank you. Phew!
Our 'problem' is, she's 90, uses an oxygen machine daily at home, is on medication, lives in the same building as 3 generations of the family (separate apartments) and her granddaughter runs an after school playgroup in the next village. That's such a common living arrangement in many countries, so I wonder if they'll treat the school closure issue differently.
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  #1323  
Old 01.03.2020, 16:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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Only the true patriots will enjoy protection from this ghastly virus!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiC56E9t0r8
Well found. I'm going to see if I can order them online from the shop.
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  #1324  
Old 01.03.2020, 16:58
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Re: Coronavirus & other pandemic like virus's - Medical staff conscription on the car

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I’ve not heard of an MD anywhere who hasn’t taken the oath.
Well anyone who's graduated from medical school in Bern in the last 10 years (possibly longer) hasn't taken it. Not sure about other Swiss medical schools - the lecture was 2 years ago.

The Hippocratic oath (well, the words ascribed to him) is pretty meaningless in today's world :

"I will not use the knife, not even, verily, on sufferers from stone, but I will give place to such as are craftsmen therein" - OK, so no surgery then.

"Neither will I administer a poison to anybody" oops, no chemotherapy either. Nor warfarin (blood thinner), or a gazillion other drugs that need careful dosing.

Ethics are managed far more proactively and continuously than a statement made when getting your degree certificate.
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  #1325  
Old 01.03.2020, 17:01
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Re: Coronavirus & other pandemic like virus's - Medical staff conscription on the car

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Well anyone who's graduated from medical school in Bern in the last 10 years (possibly longer) hasn't taken it. Not sure about other Swiss medical schools - the lecture was 2 years ago.

The Hippocratic oath (well, the words ascribed to him) is pretty meaningless in today's world :

"I will not use the knife, not even, verily, on sufferers from stone, but I will give place to such as are craftsmen therein" - OK, so no surgery then.

"Neither will I administer a poison to anybody" oops, no chemotherapy either. Nor warfarin (blood thinner), or a gazillion other drugs that need careful dosing.
I thought there is now an adapted version that some/several countries use, rather than the original one?
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  #1326  
Old 01.03.2020, 17:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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Hmmm... There's a fine line between sharing information and scaremongering, so I'm being cautious here. With the pandemic model they used for the BBC4 programme, they found... 'in the worst worst case scenario as many as 43 million people in the UK could be infected with a potential death toll of 886,000'. That's staggering and extreme so it must be seen in that extreme context, but personally, I'm more inclined to base figures on countries that operate in a similar way to Switzerland rather than on China, where we can make a valid comparison on the population density, transport network and availability of medical care. https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/la...2018/contagion
The interesting programme itself is available on BBC iPlayer:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...-four-pandemic

A remarkable coincidence that the fictional BBC4 pandemic starts in Haslemere, just where the first person to be infected with the Coronavirus in the UK was discovered.
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  #1327  
Old 01.03.2020, 19:11
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Re: Coronavirus & other pandemic like virus's - Medical staff conscription on the car

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I thought there is now an adapted version that some/several countries use, rather than the original one?
AFAIK there is
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  #1328  
Old 01.03.2020, 19:19
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Re: Coronavirus

I know we shouldn't mock the afflicted, but this thread tickles me. It's just a few people totally misunderstanding 'Hamsterkäufe'.

https://twitter.com/camille_bourg/st...26588262457344
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  #1329  
Old 01.03.2020, 19:35
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Re: Coronavirus abroad

This is the Hippocratic Oath, a modern version (that one without mentioning various gods and goddesses ) at least from back home. Google translate 'cause I'm lazy.

The Hippocratic Oath, the current version "Once admitted among the members of the medical profession: I solemnly commit myself to consecrate my life in the service of humanity; I will keep my teachers the respect and gratitude I owe them; I will exercise the profession with conscience and dignity; Patient health will be a sacred obligation for me; I will keep the secrets entrusted by the patients even after their death; I will by all means maintain the honour and noble tradition of the medical profession; My colleagues will be my brothers; I will not allow any consideration of nationality, race, religion, party or social status between my duty and patient; I will keep full respect for human life from its very beginning even under threat and will not use my medical knowledge contrary to the laws of humanity. I make this oath solemnly, freely, in honor! ”
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  #1330  
Old 01.03.2020, 19:46
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Re: Coronavirus abroad

“First do no harm” is a a tenant of medical ethics, but not part of the Hippocratic oath, oder?
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  #1331  
Old 01.03.2020, 19:58
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Re: Coronavirus abroad

For anyone who is curious, just Google 'Hippocratic Oath in' and see how many language results come up.

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I don't think an MD here has to take the Hipp. oath.
'"The Swiss Oath" was drawn up by the umbrella group for Swiss surgeons. The Swiss Medical Association external linkis expected to introduce it at other hospitals around the county.

The Hippocratic Oathexternal link is one of the oldest and most widely known codes of ethics. The original text is attributed to Hippocrates, a Greek physician commonly credited with beginning the practice of medicine as a rational science. Its most basic principle was that a doctor must always cure patients, but never harm them. It also discussed respecting teachers, passing medical knowledge to new generations and keeping patients’ secrets. Many of these principles are still part of medical culture. Swearing a modified form of the Oath remains a rite of passage for medical graduates in many countries.' https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/-the-sw...sures/44217958

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Not sure what help a bunch of very retired docs could be if they aren't up to date on the standards and practices etc. Plus most would be in the at risk category, presumably.
Totally agree on the last part, but huge numbers of staff leave the medical professions every year (remember the 50k new nurses debarcle ). One of my travel agent mates was a former ICU nurse and stayed on the nursing bank register for about 20yrs. He was regularly given leave from our place to cover during winter flu season. Another close mate is a college tutor now but was formerly an hospital lab technician. One of my tenants is an NHS theatre nurse but has taken an extended sabbatical to go travelling. Etc...etc...etc... There's loads of trained medical staff under retirement age who can be drafted in to do the day to day work, freeing up current staff to deal with this.
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  #1332  
Old 01.03.2020, 22:18
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Re: Coronavirus abroad

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“First do no harm” is a a tenant of medical ethics, but not part of the Hippocratic oath, oder?
IIRC it's a development ? Translation? Evolution? From the original Greek.
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  #1333  
Old 01.03.2020, 23:41
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Re: Coronavirus

"Aargau: a kindergarten teacher infected with Corona virus - all children are put in quarantine...A 31-year-old kindergarten teacher was infected with the coronavirus (COVID-19) during a family visit from northern Italy a week ago."

(link DE) https://www.watson.ch/
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  #1334  
Old 02.03.2020, 00:04
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Re: Coronavirus

It's worth noting that although a Covid-19 vaccine may be very many months away, numerous randomised Phase III clinical trials of existing anti-viral drugs such as Remdesivir and Kaletra are underway in China and the US. The WHO is working on a master plan for coordinating the trials of potential therapies for the virus, so that there are common standards for measuring parameters such as a patient's stages of recovery or decline.
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  #1335  
Old 02.03.2020, 01:03
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Re: Coronavirus

Do not read if you are prone to panic!
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The coronavirus may have spread undetected in the U.S. for weeks, a gene sequencing analysis found.

Researchers determined that the genomes of two coronavirus infections in Washington state show the virus could have spread in the state for almost six weeks. The two infections in Snohomish County shared a rare genetic variation, indicating they likely were related, the Times reported.

Mike Famulare, a principal research scientist at the Institute for Disease Modeling in Bellevue, Wa., conducted the analysis and said his “best guess, with broad uncertainty” is that between 150 and 1,500 people may have the virus, with the likely range being between 300 and 500 people, according to the NY Times.
He said the patients have either been “infected and recovered” or are “infected now.”
Source

Most people have the mild version so may not expect to have the virus
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  #1336  
Old 02.03.2020, 01:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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Most people have the mild version so may not expect to have the virus
I read a report yesterday about a genomic mutation between some of the cases in northern Italy, but forgot to bookmark it. I think this article might help with understanding. https://www.the-scientist.com/news-o...-travels-67183
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  #1337  
Old 02.03.2020, 07:23
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Re: Coronavirus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZA-H63ScfY Best Korea comes out with one of the most informative videos ever on how to clean to prevent the disease from spreading. I'm posting it here since it's applicable to .ch as well as elsewhere.
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  #1338  
Old 02.03.2020, 08:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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My grandma would never admit to being racist either but some of the crap she says makes me cringe.
Stirring....much?

Just stop it. You and Full Circle too.
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  #1339  
Old 02.03.2020, 09:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/28/goog...ronavirus.html

I can't be the only one thinking that the Swiss government could do a better job at providing accurate numbers. Their website also says only 8 people infected, but that was days ago, and on their press release from Thursday they said 15.
Wow, this discussion has really taken on a life of its own since I last checked! To return to this point though, I think there is currently a calculation being made across much of the world as to the risk to human life against the economic damage of putting people into lockdown/quarantine. My gut feeling is that many governments are now just of the thinking that the economic damage is more of a risk which is why they are not acting more decisively to stop the spread of the virus.

China are returning to work now, so perhaps the virus isn't that bad? All should become clear in this part of the world in the next week or so!
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Old 02.03.2020, 09:20
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Re: Coronavirus

its just the start. The ice melt on the poles is releasing new pathogens that have been locked up there for millions of years! And now they are set free
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