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  #13481  
Old 11.10.2020, 13:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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There is, it's in the numbers and it's quite obvious. Higher infection rate and no corresponding increase in the death rate. Whether this is catching up with the real infection rate vs. spring, whether it's doctors getting better at dealing with it, whether something else is an open point. But statistically, today vs. April, the virus is less dangerous.
For some yes, but remains the same for others.
It is our collective responsebility to make sure that everyone can live a somewhat normal life in these indeed strange times.
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  #13482  
Old 11.10.2020, 14:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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I have the opposite view. It seems to me most people on here realize that lockdowns are not the norm any more, but they seemed to be the only option at the time - so we just have to live with what they were. We can't change what already happened but we can learn from it.
Other people on here were already pointing out all the negative issues associated with a lockdown when they first began.

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You and a few friends continue to bring up lockdowns as if we're all chained to our couches months later, which is simply not the case. You again posted an article from June to try and prove your point instead of coming up with a recent solution. We've moved on, you should too.
Codpeace was discussing how the costs associated with the lockdown would be paid for and he recieved a permanent ban.
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  #13483  
Old 11.10.2020, 14:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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Other people on here were already pointing out all the negative issues associated with a lockdown when they first began.



Codpeace was discussing how the costs associated with the lockdown would be paid for and he recieved a permanent ban.

Good point. I can't say that I agreed with the financial measures that Codpeace proposed, but he sure posed a bloody good question about financing all this. Not sure how that could merit a ban. Maybe something else. Whatever, private forum, the mods do what they want. If I get banned for similar, no worries -- I can still read, sometimes useful information and discussions.
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  #13484  
Old 11.10.2020, 15:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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Codpeace was discussing how the costs associated with the lockdown would be paid for and he recieved a permanent ban.
Somehow I doubt that that's why Codpeace was banned, considering the ways he was throwing around immature insults and name-calling, etc.
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Old 11.10.2020, 15:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think it’s a matter of common sense really but that is sadly lacking in some people.

During the ‘lockdown’ back in April I always did the grocery shopping alone and at off peak times.
Now we tend to go as a couple but still at off peak times and it takes less time when it’s the two of us.
I wouldn’t even think of going on a Saturday, I leave that for the people who have no choice (or think going to the grocery store makes a nice family outing).

Everybody I’ve seen here sanitises their hands and basket/trolley before entering the store.
During lockdown in France only 1 member of a household was supposed to shop, my wife & I queued up separately & both bought different items so were in the shop about half the time. I thought time in the shop was likely to be an issue back then, before the 15min close to someone was known to be an issue.
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  #13486  
Old 11.10.2020, 15:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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There is, it's in the numbers and it's quite obvious. Higher infection rate and no corresponding increase in the death rate. Whether this is catching up with the real infection rate vs. spring, whether it's doctors getting better at dealing with it, whether something else is an open point. But statistically, today vs. April, the virus is less dangerous.
Statistically.

A number of leading virologists (Christian Drosten, to name one) have found that the virus is not changed (yes, some minor mutations but essentially stable) and not less dangerous. Fatality rates mostly a function of age.

Most plausible explanations for the lower death and hospitalization rates: Less virus exposure due to distancing, masks and (probably most relevant) people being outdoors in summer. Lower share of elderly infected. Much improved medical treatment.
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  #13487  
Old 11.10.2020, 16:00
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Re: Coronavirus

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Statistically.

A number of leading virologists (Christian Drosten, to name one) have found that the virus is not changed (yes, some minor mutations but essentially stable) and not less dangerous. Fatality rates mostly a function of age.

Most plausible explanations for the lower death and hospitalization rates: Less virus exposure due to distancing, masks and (probably most relevant) people being outdoors in summer. Lower share of elderly infected. Much improved medical treatment.
Maybe some of the reason could also be due to people's vitamin D levels usually increasing in the warmer months due to exposure to sunlight. If we begin to see an increase in death rates over the next few months, it could be partly due to a drop in people's vitamin D levels (which usually begins to happen in October).

More evidence on vitamin D deficiency and death rates from COVID-19

"Physicians at the Complete Med Care clinic in Dallas, Texas, have conducted a study showing that the prevalence of severe vitamin D deficiency is strongly correlated with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) mortality rate in European countries."
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20...-COVID-19.aspx
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  #13488  
Old 11.10.2020, 16:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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Maybe some of the reason could also be due to people's vitamin D levels usually increasing in the warmer months due to exposure to sunlight. If we begin to see an increase in death rates over the next few months, it could be partly due to a drop in people's vitamin D levels (which usually begins to happen in October).

More evidence on vitamin D deficiency and death rates from COVID-19

"Physicians at the Complete Med Care clinic in Dallas, Texas, have conducted a study showing that the prevalence of severe vitamin D deficiency is strongly correlated with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) mortality rate in European countries."
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20...-COVID-19.aspx
There are numerous studies that show having a *severe* Vit D deficiency is positively correlated to a severe Covid outcome. Now, Vit D deficiency is typically prevalent in elder or generally not super healthy individuals. So this may be mere correlation, not at all causality.

You make the link to sunlight / weather. It would be interesting whether there is any data on this subject from the Southern hemisphere. The study you quote seems to have looked only at Northern hemisphere countries.
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  #13489  
Old 11.10.2020, 17:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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Codpeace was discussing how the costs associated with the lockdown would be paid for and he recieved a permanent ban.
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Good point. I can't say that I agreed with the financial measures that Codpeace proposed, but he sure posed a bloody good question about financing all this. Not sure how that could merit a ban. Maybe something else. Whatever, private forum, the mods do what they want. If I get banned for similar, no worries -- I can still read, sometimes useful information and discussions.
I received a ban for liking a post made by another member. Some people are able to get away with being insulting and obnoxious whilst others get banned because the moderator doesn’t agree with what they’ve written.
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  #13490  
Old 11.10.2020, 17:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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But I bet you prefer me not getting banned or warned, so that you can continue pretending you are the victim and all is rigged against you and your fellow souls.
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I received a ban for liking a post made by another member. Some people are able to get away with being insulting and obnoxious whilst others get banned because the moderator doesn’t agree with what they’ve written.
Thanks for confirming.
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  #13491  
Old 11.10.2020, 18:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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I received a ban for liking a post made by another member. Some people are able to get away with being insulting and obnoxious whilst others get banned because the moderator doesn’t agree with what they’ve written.
I think it’s extremely unlikely that that was the case, it takes more than that to get banned on here.

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Codpeace was discussing how the costs associated with the lockdown would be paid for and he recieved a permanent ban.
Pretty sure that wasn’t why he was banned either.
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  #13492  
Old 11.10.2020, 18:24
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Re: Coronavirus

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For some yes, but remains the same for others.
The beauty of a huge, global sample is that it doesn't care about your personal opinion. In fact, it makes your personal opinion irrelevant.

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Statistically.
Yes. Your opinion is your belief, just like religion. It matters to you, nobody else cares as facts are what matter to the rest of us.

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I think it’s extremely unlikely that that was the case, it takes more than that to get banned on here.
Nope, it doesn't. I got banned last week for the simple reason that a mod disagreed with me. I got banned before because a mod disagreed with me in a PRIVATE exchange. You'd be surprised
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Old 11.10.2020, 18:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes. Your opinion is your belief, just like religion. It matters to you, nobody else cares as facts are what matter to the rest of us.
Look, my comment was factual and not necessarily contrary to what you wrote. What's the point of this bullshit response now here?
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  #13494  
Old 11.10.2020, 18:50
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Re: Coronavirus

Saw one possible reason for the increase in cases today, at least as an indicator of attitudes. Out walking with the OH, met a family she knows a little - woman and 2 kids. Talked a little (fortunately not too close) when she mentioned her husband is ill and was tested for corvid yesterday. Clearly hadn't remotely occurred to them that if he was inflected and showing symptoms then there would be a high chance they would by now also be infectious

Last edited by baboon; 11.10.2020 at 19:13.
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  #13495  
Old 11.10.2020, 18:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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Got it! But what about those who are reputable and signed? From the website, it appears ANYONE can sign so of course some will sign on with false backgrounds/narratives. Nothing is stopping those idiots from doing so...

My point is/was: what about the reputable scientists and epidemiologists who signed? Surely a few rogue signatures does not discredit their signatures - nor their academic weight.

Just my thoughts...
Maybe gave a read of this.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...of-coronavirus
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  #13496  
Old 11.10.2020, 19:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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This thread was actually bearable again for a while, until Tony Clifton reappeared. I think this guy seriously just enjoys getting people to argue with him on the internet. Maybe because he's attention-starved or maybe because he's bored. Or both. I have no idea.

But I'm going to try my best from this point forward to not "feed the troll." It's a waste of time and energy.
Good decision, it is a waste of time to debate with people who close their eyes to the facts.
Sometimes there is a side benefit that one brings good information to other EF'ers but here the people who understand scientific articles are already convinced.
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Old 11.10.2020, 19:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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Codpeace was discussing how the costs associated with the lockdown would be paid for and he (sic)recieved a permanent ban.
Actually, he was banned for & I quote ""Persistent aggressive, trolling, "anti-social" posting."
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Old 11.10.2020, 19:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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Good point. I can't say that I agreed with the financial measures that Codpeace proposed, but he sure posed a bloody good question about financing all this. Not sure how that could merit a ban. Maybe something else. Whatever, private forum, the mods do what they want. If I get banned for similar, no worries -- I can still read, sometimes useful information and discussions.
He was banned for "Persistent aggressive, trolling, "anti-social" posting."
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  #13499  
Old 11.10.2020, 20:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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...........
Yes. Your opinion is your belief, just like religion. It matters to you, nobody else cares as facts are what matter to the rest of us.....

Last edited by curley; 11.10.2020 at 21:02. Reason: got something wrong, deleted my reply
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  #13500  
Old 11.10.2020, 21:10
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Re: Coronavirus

So when we go to certain areas in France we will have to quarantine upon our return.
The french can however travel freely in France aswell as to countries that are on the red list of Switzerland. Many of those cross the border each day to work in Switzerland without having to quaratine...
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