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  #13501  
Old 11.10.2020, 22:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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Many of those cross the border each day to work in Switzerland without having to quaratine...
Reading the rules often helps.

"Border regions of our neighbouring countries can be exempted from the list. With this decision, the Federal Council is taking account of the close economic, social and cultural exchanges that take place in the border regions."

https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...09-2020-2.html
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  #13502  
Old 11.10.2020, 22:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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So when we go to certain areas in France we will have to quarantine upon our return.
The french can however travel freely in France aswell as to countries that are on the red list of Switzerland. Many of those cross the border each day to work in Switzerland without having to quaratine...
Frontaliers at my workplace have been told in no uncertain terms that they must not visit any red area places, including in their own country.
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  #13503  
Old 11.10.2020, 22:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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Reading the rules often helps.

"Border regions of our neighbouring countries can be exempted from the list. With this decision, the Federal Council is taking account of the close economic, social and cultural exchanges that take place in the border regions."

https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...09-2020-2.html
I am aware of that, but still question their free internal movement plus travel to countries on our no no list. Upon return they come to workplaces here, many of them beeing in our hospitals and care homes.
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  #13504  
Old 11.10.2020, 22:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think it’s extremely unlikely that that was the case, it takes more than that to get banned on here.
Oh no, it's true alright. Have you not noticed the only bans that have been handed out in this discussion have all been to those on the sceptical side of the Covid debate? And all by the same moderator?

When I raised the issue with the moderator about unequal treatment I was advised to report any insulting or rude posts that break forum rules by clicking on the little triangle in the corner. I've yet to see a single post getting deleted or any action being taken when people break forum rules. It's just activist moderation and nothing new in internet forums.
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  #13505  
Old 11.10.2020, 22:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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I am aware of that, but still question their free internal movement plus travel to countries on our no no list. Upon return they come to workplaces here, many of them beeing in our hospitals and care homes.
It's not going to be policeable really.
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  #13506  
Old 11.10.2020, 22:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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There are numerous studies that show having a *severe* Vit D deficiency is positively correlated to a severe Covid outcome. Now, Vit D deficiency is typically prevalent in elder or generally not super healthy individuals. So this may be mere correlation, not at all causality.

You make the link to sunlight / weather. It would be interesting whether there is any data on this subject from the Southern hemisphere. The study you quote seems to have looked only at Northern hemisphere countries.
Well, vitamin D deficiency causes your immune system to be compromised, and it's very easy to develop a vitamin D deficiency during the winter, especially, regardless of your age or how otherwise healthy you are. Deficiencies in it are associated with an increased risk for respiratory tract infection in general. And vitamin D inhibits inflammation by increasing the production of anti-inflammatory cytokines, which means that a deficiency in it increases inflammation. So I doubt that it's a matter of correlation without causation, as you suggested that it could be.

This paper does a good job of explaining why and how a vitamin D deficiency can put someone at greater risk of death or hospitalization after contracting COVID:
Vitamin D deficiency and co-morbidities in COVID-19 patients – A fatal relationship?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7276229/

And this study, regarding the prevalence of vitamin D deficiencies:
https://eje.bioscientifica.com/view/...JE-18-0736.xml

"Vitamin D deficiency (serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25(OH)D) <50 nmol/L or 20 ng/mL) is common in Europe and the Middle East. It occurs in <20% of the population in Northern Europe, in 30–60% in Western, Southern and Eastern Europe and up to 80% in Middle East countries."


Weak winter sunlight explains Swiss vitamin D deficiency

https://lenews.ch/2019/10/25/weak-wi...-d-deficiency/
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  #13507  
Old 11.10.2020, 22:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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It's not going to be policeable really.
I know, the matter was discussed on the evening news today (RTS). I thought it was interesting.
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  #13508  
Old 11.10.2020, 22:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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Frontaliers at my workplace have been told in no uncertain terms that they must not visit any red area places, including in their own country.
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I am aware of that, but still question their free internal movement plus travel to countries on our no no list. Upon return they come to workplaces here, many of them beeing in our hospitals and care homes.
This quarantine/travel ban thing is starting to make little sense given the current numbers. Aside from the fact it is unenforceable it's also becoming ever more illogical. As an example Pays de la Loire in France is on the Swiss quarantine list with an infection rate of 92 per 100,000, meanwhile Zürich has an infection rate 239 per 100,000.

It's completely illogical that an employer (or anyone for that matter) can tell people not to visit a red area when it's perfectly fine to go out and about in an area with a higher rate of infection in their own country!
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  #13509  
Old 11.10.2020, 23:00
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Re: Coronavirus

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Well, vitamin D deficiency causes your immune system to be compromised, and it's very easy to develop a vitamin D deficiency during the winter, especially, regardless of your age or how otherwise healthy you are. Deficiencies in it are associated with an increased risk for respiratory tract infection in general. And vitamin D inhibits inflammation by increasing the production of anti-inflammatory cytokines, which means that a deficiency in it increases inflammation. So I doubt that it's a matter of correlation without causation, as you suggested that it could be.

This paper does a good job of explaining why and how a vitamin D deficiency can put someone at greater risk of death or hospitalization after contracting COVID:
Vitamin D deficiency and co-morbidities in COVID-19 patients – A fatal relationship?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7276229/

And this study, regarding the prevalence of vitamin D deficiencies:
https://eje.bioscientifica.com/view/...JE-18-0736.xml

"Vitamin D deficiency (serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25(OH)D) <50 nmol/L or 20 ng/mL) is common in Europe and the Middle East. It occurs in <20% of the population in Northern Europe, in 30–60% in Western, Southern and Eastern Europe and up to 80% in Middle East countries."


Weak winter sunlight explains Swiss vitamin D deficiency

https://lenews.ch/2019/10/25/weak-wi...-d-deficiency/
I am not suggesting anything, and it may very well be a factor. The studies you quote have shown correlations. I asked was has there been a Covid-related study in the Southern hemisphere which could support this finding (i.e. lack of sunlight in their winter and correlated Covid impact). The quote on regional prevalence is counterintuitive to me, if Vit D was primarily related to sunlight: Surely the MidEast must have more sunlight than Northern Europe.

Again, just trying to learn and understand.
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  #13510  
Old 11.10.2020, 23:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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This quarantine/travel ban thing is starting to make little sense given the current numbers. Aside from the fact it is unenforceable it's also becoming ever more illogical. As an example Pays de la Loire in France is on the Swiss quarantine list with an infection rate of 92 per 100,000, meanwhile Zürich has an infection rate 239 per 100,000.

It's completely illogical that an employer (or anyone for that matter) can tell people not to visit a red area when it's perfectly fine to go out and about in an area with a higher rate of infection in their own country!
I don’t think it’s about getting infected when visiting a red zone I think it’s the impact 10 days quarantine might have on their work.
Unless they are working 100% from home they won’t be able to go to work and that’s what the employers are concerned about.
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  #13511  
Old 11.10.2020, 23:17
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Re: Coronavirus

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I am not suggesting anything, and it may very well be a factor. The studies you quote have shown correlations. I asked was has there been a Covid-related study in the Southern hemisphere which could support this finding (i.e. lack of sunlight in their winter and correlated Covid impact). The quote on regional prevalence is counterintuitive to me, if Vit D was primarily related to sunlight: Surely the MidEast must have more sunlight than Northern Europe.

Again, just trying to learn and understand.
Skin colour also plays a part in vit D from sunlight. The darker the skin colour the longer the sun exposure necessary to produce vitamin D.
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  #13512  
Old 11.10.2020, 23:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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Skin colour also plays a part in vit D from sunlight. The darker the skin colour the longer the sun exposure necessary to produce vitamin D.
I had also read that and found myself wondering if that could be why (or one of the reasons why) there has been a higher mortality and hospitalization rate among African Americans in the US.
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  #13513  
Old 11.10.2020, 23:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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I am not suggesting anything, and it may very well be a factor. The studies you quote have shown correlations. I asked was has there been a Covid-related study in the Southern hemisphere which could support this finding (i.e. lack of sunlight in their winter and correlated Covid impact). The quote on regional prevalence is counterintuitive to me, if Vit D was primarily related to sunlight: Surely the MidEast must have more sunlight than Northern Europe.

Again, just trying to learn and understand.
Yeah, there certainly could be other factors as well (not just a matter of how much sunlight). I did also read that proper magnesium is necessary for the activation and metabolizing of vitamin D in the body, which means that if someone is low in magnesium (which I know is also extremely common), then they might not be 'getting' or producing enough vitamin D.
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  #13514  
Old 12.10.2020, 00:18
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Re: Coronavirus

Good news for hamsters
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Metallodrug ranitidine bismuth citrate suppresses SARS-CoV-2 replication and relieves virus-associated pneumonia in Syrian hamsters
Edit: ranitidine bismuth citrate is a commonly used drug for the treatment of Helicobacter pylori infection. This is is a bacterial infection that causes stomach inflammation (gastritis), peptic ulcer disease, and certain types of stomach cancer.
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  #13515  
Old 12.10.2020, 00:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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And here is something you should read and take note

https://www.infectioncontroltoday.co...re-unnecessary
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  #13516  
Old 12.10.2020, 00:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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And here is something you should read and take note

https://www.infectioncontroltoday.co...re-unnecessary
Been here before, hurrah for herd immunity; it protects us so well against similar viruses like flu and the common cold.
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  #13517  
Old 12.10.2020, 00:23
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Re: Coronavirus

At the end of the day, there are some very accomplished virologists and epidemologists who signed this declaration. Why would they risk their reputations to sign?
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Old 12.10.2020, 00:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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Been here before, hurrah for herd immunity; it protects us so well against similar viruses like flu and the common cold.
That is not my point Marton. Why would acclaimed scientists, virologists and epidemiologists sign onto something to which they did not believe? Why would they risk their reputations exactly?
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Old 12.10.2020, 00:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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At the end of the day, there are some very accomplished virologists and epidemologists who signed this declaration. Why would they risk their reputations to sign?
Maybe because they have a lot of money in the stock market.
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Old 12.10.2020, 00:34
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Maybe because they have a lot of money in the stock market.
Doubt it but nice try...
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