Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #13661  
Old 13.10.2020, 10:55
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ausserschwyz
Posts: 687
Groaned at 26 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 1,161 Times in 465 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

These were the options to answer:

Reply With Quote
  #13662  
Old 13.10.2020, 10:58
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ausserschwyz
Posts: 687
Groaned at 26 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 1,161 Times in 465 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Every vaccine you had, had been tested & used in the population for many years, probably decades. The worry is in a vaccine that has been tested for 100 days rushed into production where the rules have been changed. Apparently the manufactures have also been absolved of liability if anything goes wrong. Seems a very different scenario to the vaccines I had as a child.
Fair point. The quoted poll on vaccine safety perception will not even capture this as the study is from 2018.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
  #13663  
Old 13.10.2020, 11:13
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 2,812
Groaned at 47 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 3,304 Times in 1,509 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
The Economist mentioned Wellcome Trust as one of the sources to the article, so underlying dataset may be the same. In any event, Switzerland seems to be quite skeptical to vaccine safety. I thought more so than the Swiss data point, the negative correlation to GDP was interesting.
True it is interesting, and completely strange given the upper graphs.

I'd love to see a graph of vaccine scepticism vs Facebook usage - would probably be a strong correlation
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank newtoswitz for this useful post:
  #13664  
Old 13.10.2020, 11:20
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 1,458
Groaned at 18 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 1,893 Times in 884 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Interesting this doesn't agree with statistics for Switzerland here: https://lenews.ch/2019/06/20/switzer...accine-safety/

Only 22% say vaccines are unsafe, so 78% think they are safe. Unless there's a "don't know" option in the surveys, which is a bad idea if you want useful responses, but a good one if you want to spin the data either way.

Also 97% of people in Switzerland are vaccinated with the standard set, which is odd if only 50% think they're safe!

But then it's a balance - are vaccines 100% safe, of course not. Are they much safer than getting the disease, for the majority of people - of course, otherwise they wouldn't (shouldn't) be approved.

So if someone asked me "are vaccines completely safe" I would have to answer NO, but I'm definitely not a vaccine skeptic.
I guess this is the standard set of vaccines, link from the lenews.ch article



Never met an antivaxxer in the real world. If they are as vocal as vegans, I should have met as least one

The only thing I've seen once were a couple with kids arguing over specific vaccines. They were moving for a few years to a country were tuberculosis and rotavirus are endemic. One parent thought the vaccines were necessary, the other thought it was overkill and unnecessary risk for their children. I laughed inside at how one parent thought the vaccines for illness you get usually in CH were OK, while vaccines for illness common in other countries were a no. Some people fail at abstract thinking and really need to see a tuberculosis case with their eyes before believing it kills more than 1 million people per year.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #13665  
Old 13.10.2020, 11:27
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 2,812
Groaned at 47 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 3,304 Times in 1,509 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Every vaccine you had, had been tested & used in the population for many years, probably decades. The worry is in a vaccine that has been tested for 100 days rushed into production where the rules have been changed. Apparently the manufactures have also been absolved of liability if anything goes wrong. Seems a very different scenario to the vaccines I had as a child.
This is a good point - also ties in with the different population risks when it comes to using the vaccine.

Normally we aim for herd immunity, because vaccines are never fully effective, some people miss them, and some people can't take them.

But in this case it may make more sense to give the vaccine to those at higher risk from COVID, where the two risks balance better. And the rest of the population can build herd immunity naturally once they are protected.

Unfortunately, it looks like both the vaccine and natural immunity may be short lived, and the population most at risk (older people) usually have a less effective response to vaccines.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank newtoswitz for this useful post:
  #13666  
Old 13.10.2020, 11:28
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,560
Groaned at 327 Times in 267 Posts
Thanked 13,828 Times in 7,139 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Actually, Sweden's COVID-19 death rate of 583 per million is very very high versus it's "European neighbors" not well below many of its European neighbors.

According to worldometers here, Sweden has the seventh-highest COVID-19 death rate in Europe and Sweden's death rate is worse than 41 other European countries.

Sorry to bring boring facts into your pipe dreams.

If you use the usual comparison method of comparing with neighbouring border countries then Sweden's COVID-19 death is between five and nine times higher.
It's double or even four times higher even compared with countries with less performant health care systems. So much about the Swedish corona success story.

But the scary thing is certain people here consider these deaths "normal". Just part of the game. That if not is the deceased's fault - they weren't younger, healthier, with a stronger immune system...They weren't "autonome" and independent enough, didn't take their health in their hands. They weren't richer, had to expose themselves more. We've read all sorts of bizarre, sickening opinions on this thread. I'm glad they have their little corner to voice them all.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #13667  
Old 13.10.2020, 11:40
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 905
Groaned at 144 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 2,232 Times in 850 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
It's double or even four times higher even compared with countries with less performant health care systems. So much about the Swedish corona success story.
Sweden IS a success story. Where Sweden failed in the past is in the protection of care homes, remove this to normalize the data and you see a very different picture (of the past). The current picture, since July, is much better than the overall Covid picture with daily deaths consistently in the single digits and since August below 5. Sorry, I know it doesn't fit your outlook, but you'll have to face the fact that you're wrong and apologies for not using passive-aggressive comments like you do, but I haven't yet adjusted my writing style
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
  #13668  
Old 13.10.2020, 11:43
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,511
Groaned at 979 Times in 688 Posts
Thanked 17,517 Times in 6,865 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
you'll have to face the fact that you're wrong and apologies for not using passive-aggressive comments like you do, but I haven't yet adjusted my writing style
Just FYI as an observer to this conversation, this is in fact a passive aggressive statement.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Chuff for this useful post:
  #13669  
Old 13.10.2020, 11:45
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,560
Groaned at 327 Times in 267 Posts
Thanked 13,828 Times in 7,139 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Sweden IS a success story. Where Sweden failed in the past is in the protection of care homes, remove this to normalize the data and you see a very different picture (of the past). The current picture, since July, is much better than the overall Covid picture with daily deaths consistently in the single digits and since August below 5. Sorry, I know it doesn't fit your outlook, but you'll have to face the fact that you're wrong and apologies for not using passive-aggressive comments like you do, but I haven't yet adjusted my writing style
You can always learn from your friends here on EF. But you're doing fine, really. No need to worry. Carry on.
Reply With Quote
  #13670  
Old 13.10.2020, 11:53
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 905
Groaned at 144 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 2,232 Times in 850 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Just FYI as an observer to this conversation, this is in fact a passive aggressive statement.
This is literally the exact opposite of passive-aggressive:

Quote:
View Post
you'll have to face the fact that you're wrong
This is a text-book example of passive-aggressive:

Quote:
View Post

I find it funny that some discussions on this forum get so intense because people don't want to lose face on the interwebz. One has to "crush" their "enemy", put them down, show them their place. "I am smarter and I have multiple degrees and tons of money to prove it." Ridiculous. Some people should work on their sense of ridicule, they're sorely lacking it, despite being the accomplished humans they fancy themselves to be.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
  #13671  
Old 13.10.2020, 11:55
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Formerly in Neuchatel
Posts: 2,932
Groaned at 225 Times in 153 Posts
Thanked 5,439 Times in 2,053 Posts
porsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Sweden IS a success story. Where Sweden failed in the past is in the protection of care homes, remove this to normalize the data and you see a very different picture (of the past). The current picture, since July, is much better than the overall Covid picture with daily deaths consistently in the single digits and since August below 5. Sorry, I know it doesn't fit your outlook, but you'll have to face the fact that you're wrong and apologies for not using passive-aggressive comments like you do, but I haven't yet adjusted my writing style
That's some awesome logic. Disregard their failures and you have success.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank porsch1909 for this useful post:
  #13672  
Old 13.10.2020, 12:01
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,560
Groaned at 327 Times in 267 Posts
Thanked 13,828 Times in 7,139 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
This is literally the exact opposite of passive-aggressive:
Lol, convenient quote. Check your other most posts on this thread please.

Quote:
View Post
This is a text-book example of passive-aggressive:
No, just a good observation. The thing is you and your friends here know as little or as much as the rest of us but always ridiculed if not plainly attacked other people for believing the measures that have been taken or are being taken by authorities are good/acceptable enough for all of us.

But seriously, I'll let you win the internet. Good luck and stay healthy.
Reply With Quote
  #13673  
Old 13.10.2020, 12:02
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 816
Groaned at 280 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 1,824 Times in 889 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
It's double or even four times higher even compared with countries with less performant health care systems. So much about the Swedish corona success story.

But the scary thing is certain people here consider these deaths "normal". Just part of the game. That if not is the deceased's fault - they weren't younger, healthier, with a stronger immune system...They weren't "autonome" and independent enough, didn't take their health in their hands. They weren't richer, had to expose themselves more. We've read all sorts of bizarre, sickening opinions on this thread. I'm glad they have their little corner to voice them all.
The deaths are "normal"! The average age of those dying of Covid is 82 or thereabouts, about the same as the average life expectancy for the average human. It's exceptionally sad when people die, and more people are dying because of this virus (although as a percentage of the world's population, not that many), but it's also perfectly normal. Many seem to now have the strange notion that it is "wrong to die". Nature is brutal and doesn't care about people's feelings.
Reply With Quote
  #13674  
Old 13.10.2020, 12:04
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 816
Groaned at 280 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 1,824 Times in 889 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Sweden IS a success story. Where Sweden failed in the past is in the protection of care homes, remove this to normalize the data and you see a very different picture (of the past). The current picture, since July, is much better than the overall Covid picture with daily deaths consistently in the single digits and since August below 5.
Not only that, they've managed to keep hold of their personal liberties, which in my opinion is far more of a success story.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #13675  
Old 13.10.2020, 12:04
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,392
Groaned at 349 Times in 291 Posts
Thanked 12,424 Times in 5,968 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
The deaths are "normal"! The average age of those dying of Covid is 82 or thereabouts, about the same as the average life expectancy for the average human. It's exceptionally sad when people die, and more people are dying because of this virus (although as a percentage of the world's population, not that many), but it's also perfectly normal. Many have seemed to now have the strange notion that it is "wrong to die". Nature is brutal and doesn't care about people's feelings.

No, these deaths are likely in addition to your "normal" deaths.


Still imho a horrible way to talk about that, it is someone´s mother/father/uncle/brother/aunt/loved one/friend.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank roegner for this useful post:
  #13676  
Old 13.10.2020, 12:07
V__ V__ is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 1,321
Groaned at 296 Times in 162 Posts
Thanked 1,392 Times in 659 Posts
V__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Lockdown is such a success that those should benefit the most from it actually would rather die from Covid than be in lockdown

Nursing home residents stage heartbreaking protest outside facility: 'Rather die from COVID than loneliness'
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank V__ for this useful post:
  #13677  
Old 13.10.2020, 12:08
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 816
Groaned at 280 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 1,824 Times in 889 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
No, these deaths are likely in addition to your "normal" deaths.


Still imho a horrible way to talk about that, it is someone´s mother/father/uncle/brother/aunt/loved one/friend.
Time will tell us that, there was a big spike in excess deaths during the height of the pandemic in the spring, however since then excess deaths have in fact been less than normal for the same time period in previous years. Covid seems to have brought forward some deaths by a few months.

Excess deaths could rise again once the implications of the lockdown on reduced access to healthcare for conditions aside from Covid becomes more apparent, however only time will tell if this happens or not.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #13678  
Old 13.10.2020, 12:13
Talk to you later's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: ZH
Posts: 559
Groaned at 25 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 910 Times in 362 Posts
Talk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

All the infighting aside, it is interesting to see that humans live maybe 2-3 times longer than in the recent past, but we still feel that maybe it is not long enough. Now that is progress or maybe selfishness

To put it in context, approximately 100 billion humans have died so far! Unfortunately our time will come too, Corona or no Corona
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Talk to you later for this useful post:
  #13679  
Old 13.10.2020, 12:21
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 905
Groaned at 144 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 2,232 Times in 850 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
But seriously, I'll let you win the internet. Good luck and stay healthy.
It's always you that talks about some perceived "wins" and "losses" and you keep projecting this onto others. For me it's always about correcting when someone, like you in your above post, is factually wrong.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
  #13680  
Old 13.10.2020, 12:22
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 816
Groaned at 280 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 1,824 Times in 889 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
All the infighting aside, it is interesting to see that humans live maybe 2-3 times longer than in the recent past, but we still feel that maybe it is not long enough. Now that is progress or maybe selfishness

To put it in context, approximately 100 billion humans have died so far! Unfortunately our time will come too, Corona or no Corona
Babies being born today will be living to over a hundred. On the one side we're expected to celebrate this achievement, on the other side, all we ever hear is pension crisis, care crisis, over population crisis...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cold, corona, coronavirus, covid, covid-19, flu, health, medical, virus




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 10 (3 members and 7 guests)
fatmanfilms, bowlie
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0