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  #13781  
Old 14.10.2020, 17:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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Let's have a sweepstake.. What's going to be announced/restricted tomorrow..?

My guess is pubs, early closing, nightclubs shut.. Work from home directive back again.

Possibly cinema, sports clubs ?

Schools no actions yet.
I think cantons will decide independently.
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  #13782  
Old 14.10.2020, 18:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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I will leave just leave this here.....
age
A good example of sharing a tweet without quoting a credible source.
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  #13783  
Old 14.10.2020, 19:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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A good example of sharing a tweet without quoting a credible source.

Do we need credible sources for jokes too now?
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  #13784  
Old 14.10.2020, 19:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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Do we need credible sources for jokes too now?
Only jokes from the official Swiss government website will be tolerated
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  #13785  
Old 14.10.2020, 19:52
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Re: Coronavirus

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Early lockdowns in developed countries that suffered coronavirus outbreaks were a determining factor in lessening the number of excess deaths from the pandemic, according to a study published Wednesday in the journal Nature Medicine.
Source

And to be fair for the anti-lockdown fans.
Quote:
Proposal to let coronavirus spread naturally through US population interests White House and alarms medical establishment

National Institutes of Health Director Francis Collins:
“This is a fringe component of epidemiology. This is not mainstream science. It’s dangerous. It fits into the political views of certain parts of our confused political establishment,”
Source

Very happy to be living in Switzerland.
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  #13786  
Old 14.10.2020, 19:57
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Re: Coronavirus

Apparently the second time hit is worse. 25 year old man from US, no previous health issues.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54512034
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  #13787  
Old 14.10.2020, 20:09
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Re: Coronavirus

The situation in SZ should be a cautionary tale.

Until a week or so ago, it seemed that most Schwyzers I encountered out and about took the Alfred E Newman approach to the pandemic. Few were were following any precautions. A rather loud coterie crying hoax, too many refusing to do even the small things like keep distance while in line at the supermarket. Lots of mocking of those wearing masks, stopping to disinfect hands, trying to comply.

And here we are.

The new rules are being called 'Maskenpflicht-lite', a typical Schwyzer solution. Masks will be required of all gatherings public or private of over 50 people, as well as in any situation where distance cannot be kept. The last bit is quite a get-out clause.

But even this requirement-with-a-giant-loophole is too much, apparently. I heard several people today making a point of saying they would refuse to comply with the mask requirement. All in the name of Freedumb.

---

A bit from the article Komsomolez linked above, an interesting passage:

Der Berner Epidemiologe Christian Althaus reagiert auf Twitter. «Wenn ein Spital einen Appell an die Bevölkerung richten muss, stimmt etwas ganz gewaltig nicht. Wo um Himmels Willen sind der Bund und die Kantone, und warum lässt man die Schweiz schon wieder in eine solche Situation hineinschlittern?»

Rough translation:

Bernese epidemiologist Christian Althaus responds on Twitter. "When a hospital has to make an appeal to the population, something is very wrong. Where on earth are the federal government and the cantons, and why do they let Switzerland slide into such a situation again?


Did we not learn anything from the last go-round about the need for coordination of resources?
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  #13788  
Old 14.10.2020, 20:24
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Re: Coronavirus

More of the same
Quote:
William Haseltine, Chair and President of ACCESS Health International, said “Herd immunity is another word for mass murder. That is exactly what it is"

Haseltine went on to say that if the virus is allowed to spread, as the Trump Administration is allegedly advocating, “we are looking at two to six million Americans dead – not just this year but every year.”
Source

This is what happens when a reality TV star is in a position to ignore his own public health experts.
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  #13789  
Old 14.10.2020, 20:50
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Please desist from linking to Twitter or similar social media. This is expressly disallowed by our posting guidelines. I'll let this last one through, but in future please find the original source if possible and quote or link it directly here.

Rubbish. Nothing to do with Forbes, every report is the same.

For reference, here's the full text.
Quote:
This is actually not strictly true - I was misinterpreting a different rule, for which I apologise.

However, the point is still valid - simply linking to twitter, which is itself linking to another source, is poor practice, especially when that's a video, and is often done to try to discourage people from accessing the original text.
You needn't apologise, just treating me the same as every other member on this forum will do!!

What I posted IS the original source. It came from a Spectator TV interview and was uploaded directly to Twitter. And I posted it for a very good reason.

In the post-truth world we live in it is very important to see the original source. What has happened in recent years, is that meaning and truth have lost relevance when compared to the narrative and who is right. It seems the goal of Forbes magazine and "every other report" is to prove that President Trump is wrong. This is no longer journalism, it is activism.

I don't care for Donald Trump, however I do care about the truth. This is why it is SO IMPORTANT to listen and see what Dr David Nabarro said and the tone he used, so that we can be in no doubt what he and as an extension the WHO now think of lockdowns.

It sounds as if France will be the next country to introduce further lockdown measures tonight. At this rate it can't be long before EU leaders will have to meet to arrange another bailout

Last edited by roegner; 14.10.2020 at 21:02. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
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  #13790  
Old 14.10.2020, 21:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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You can listen to what he said in its full context here:

https://twitter.com/spectator/status...73157827858434

Forbes are just playing semantics, and it's the reason why people don't trust the press anymore.
The problem with that tweet is they state "Dr David Nabarro, the WHO's Special Envoy on Covid-19" when he is not "the WHO's Special Envoy on Covid-19", he is just one of six such special Envoys on Covid-19.

The main functions of the Special Envoys on COVID-19 are to:
  • Amplify the messages of the Director-General;
  • Disseminate WHO guidance on COVID-19 readiness and response;
  • Partake in high-level advocacy and political engagement;
  • Provide strategic advice on preparedness, readiness and response to COVID-19 outbreaks;
  • Engage with regional bodies and national governments;
  • Report regularly to the Director-General on their work and the situation in countries.

In this case, he claims he is disseminating WHO guidance on COVID-19 response but he seems to be the only one sharing this guidance.
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Last edited by marton; 14.10.2020 at 21:49.
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  #13791  
Old 14.10.2020, 21:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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The situation in SZ should be a cautionary tale.

Until a week or so ago, it seemed that most Schwyzers I encountered out and about took the Alfred E Newman approach to the pandemic. Few were were following any precautions. A rather loud coterie crying hoax, too many refusing to do even the small things like keep distance while in line at the supermarket. Lots of mocking of those wearing masks, stopping to disinfect hands, trying to comply.

And here we are.

The new rules are being called 'Maskenpflicht-lite', a typical Schwyzer solution. Masks will be required of all gatherings public or private of over 50 people, as well as in any situation where distance cannot be kept. The last bit is quite a get-out clause.

But even this requirement-with-a-giant-loophole is too much, apparently. I heard several people today making a point of saying they would refuse to comply with the mask requirement. All in the name of Freedumb.

---

A bit from the article Komsomolez linked above, an interesting passage:

Der Berner Epidemiologe Christian Althaus reagiert auf Twitter. «Wenn ein Spital einen Appell an die Bevölkerung richten muss, stimmt etwas ganz gewaltig nicht. Wo um Himmels Willen sind der Bund und die Kantone, und warum lässt man die Schweiz schon wieder in eine solche Situation hineinschlittern?»

Rough translation:

Bernese epidemiologist Christian Althaus responds on Twitter. "When a hospital has to make an appeal to the population, something is very wrong. Where on earth are the federal government and the cantons, and why do they let Switzerland slide into such a situation again?


Did we not learn anything from the last go-round about the need for coordination of resources?
Well, I guess then here is a wake-up call. I have seen quite a lot of voluntary mask wearers in the supermarket today.

As far as behaviour is concerned, I think I said it before but my impressions around here were different and I actually found the behaviour of most very appropriate and considerate. The massive outbreak in SZ now is of course highly event-related and has not too much to do with mask wearing in shops. But then again, this is how it spreads.

The cantonal leadership is a joke and meanders between denial, half-baked measures and a total failure in communicating with the people. I find it absolutely ludicrous how many politicians argue that there is no evidence for infections in shops. Allegedly it spreads in households. I would maybe accept this "statistic" if we did not have 50-75% of cases where the infected have absolutely no clue where they got infected. So yeah, sure, probably got it at home because my wife is also sick ...

Last edited by komsomolez; 14.10.2020 at 21:56.
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  #13792  
Old 14.10.2020, 21:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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Well, I guess then here is a wake-up call. I have seen quite a lot of voluntary mask wearers in the supermarket today.

As far as behaviour is concerned, I think I said it before but my impressions around here were different and I actually found the behaviour of most very appropriate and considerate. The massive outbreak now is of course highly event-related and has not too much to do with mask wearing in shops. But then again, this is how it spreads.

The cantonal leadership is a joke and meanders between denial, half-baked measures and a total failure in communicating with the people. I find it absolutely ludicrous how many politicians argue that there is no evidence for infections in shops. Allegedly it spreads in households. I would maybe accept this "statistic" if we did not have 50-75% of cases where the infected have absolutely no clue where they got infected. So yeah, sure, probably got it at home because my wife is also sick ...
Agree with what you write. I have also seen the statement before that "Allegedly it spreads in households" but the elephant in this room is where did the first infected person in the household get infected.
It would not spread in households if nobody in the household was infected.
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  #13793  
Old 14.10.2020, 21:50
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Re: Coronavirus

I didn't catch it, but hubby said that the Swiss news tonight shared a story from the Netherlands where I guess the authorities say not to take public transport unless absolutely necessary. I cannot see the Swiss admitting or even considering that public transport here is contributing to the spread.
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Old 14.10.2020, 21:52
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Re: Coronavirus

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In this case, he is not disseminating WHO guidance on COVID-19 response but expressing his own opinion.
No. He's being given air time as a WHO Covid envoy and as such represents the WHO 100%. He's not a private person caught by chance on camera on the street, he's giving an interview as an WHO official. But too much ado about nothing: they have discredited themselves long time ago, so whatever they say is basically noise and could be safely ignored with no repercussions
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Old 14.10.2020, 22:01
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Re: Coronavirus

French President Emmanuel Macron announced on Wednesday that locals in Paris, Marseille and seven other cities will have to stick to a curfew from 9:00 p.m. until 6:00 a.m.

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-fr...lle/a-55278185
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  #13796  
Old 14.10.2020, 22:04
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Re: Coronavirus

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The cantonal leadership is a joke and meanders between denial, half-baked measures and a total failure in communicating with the people. I find it absolutely ludicrous how many politicians argue that there is no evidence for infections in shops. Allegedly it spreads in households. I would maybe accept this "statistic" if we did not have 50-75% of cases where the infected have absolutely no clue where they got infected. So yeah, sure, probably got it at home because my wife is also sick ...
Not Switzerland, but according to Public Health England data, instances of transmission in shops and restaurants is very low indeed. Makes the decision to close pubs and restaurants there seem all the more crazy.


Data can be seen in Figure 19 of the report found in the link below.
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...llance-reports
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Old 14.10.2020, 22:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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French President Emmanuel Macron announced on Wednesday that locals in Paris, Marseille and seven other cities will have to stick to a curfew from 9:00 p.m. until 6:00 a.m.

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-fr...lle/a-55278185
Packed schools and subways probably contribute more. It's not like everyone parties right now in this manky weather, if anything summer would have been a disaster. And it wasn't.
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  #13798  
Old 14.10.2020, 22:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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Not Switzerland, but according to Public Health England data, instances of transmission in shops and restaurants is very low indeed. Makes the decision to close pubs and restaurants there seem all the more crazy.


Data can be seen in Figure 19 of the report found in the link below.
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...llance-reports
Which report precisely? Link goes to a long list.
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  #13799  
Old 14.10.2020, 22:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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Which report precisely? Link goes to a long list.
The first one, in the pdf. "Figure 19: Number of acute respiratory infection (ARI) incidents by institution, England". They'd be better off using a pie chart for such information but it's clear that restaurants and shops (which I assume is included in other) aren't really to blame.
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Old 14.10.2020, 22:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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The first one, in the pdf. "Figure 19: Number of acute respiratory infection (ARI) incidents by institution, England". They'd be better off using a pie chart for such information but it's clear that restaurants and shops (which I assume is included in other) aren't really to blame.
Ok, got it. Well, I would think the picture for CH might be similar.

Now, what is striking is that there is "I don't know" category. Which is exactly my point: If a majority of people cannot tell where they got infected (read somewhere that in CH now 75ish%), how meaningful are the relatively few data points where an infection could be traced?
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