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Old 14.10.2020, 22:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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The first one, in the pdf. "Figure 19: Number of acute respiratory infection (ARI) incidents by institution, England". They'd be better off using a pie chart for such information but it's clear that restaurants and shops (which I assume is included in other) aren't really to blame.
Look at fig. 23 where shopping and eating out are the two major causes.
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Old 14.10.2020, 22:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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Look at fig. 23 where shopping and eating out are the two major causes.
Causes? This seems simply to say that these were the activities people engaged in before testing positive. Guess there would be a 100% match for eating or peeing.
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Old 14.10.2020, 22:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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Causes? This seems simply to say that these were the activities people engaged in before testing positive. Guess there would be a 100% match for eating or peeing.
The last item is usually associated with other infections?

So your theory is that people were infected during activities they were not engaged in
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Old 14.10.2020, 23:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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So your theory is that people were infected during activities they were not engaged in
Come on.

It looks to me like a list of what people have done before they tested positive. Multiple mentions. What does that tell you other than what people do all day long?
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Old 14.10.2020, 23:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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The new rules are being called 'Maskenpflicht-lite', a typical Schwyzer solution. Masks will be required of all gatherings public or private of over 50 people, as well as in any situation where distance cannot be kept. The last bit is quite a get-out clause.

But even this requirement-with-a-giant-loophole is too much, apparently. I heard several people today making a point of saying they would refuse to comply with the mask requirement. All in the name of Freedumb.
The situation really is quite dire here. The hospital in Schwyz is filling up and we have even had a few deaths again. However, the canton is ruled by SVP politicians, which is why they've implemented the above safety measures. Interestingly enough, it's actually the SVP supporters who have been hit hardest by the current wave.

Edit: Another spine-tingling detail: The Schwyzer hospital has reported that between 30 - 40% of all recent Covid-19 tests are positive. The hospital has taken on its own public awareness campaign, which may be a reaction to the local government's lack of implementing stringent safety measures to protect its citizens.
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Old 14.10.2020, 23:53
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Re: Coronavirus

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Causes? This seems simply to say that these were the activities people engaged in before testing positive. Guess there would be a 100% match for eating or peeing.
Only if you are doing it with someone else not in your household, which would kind of match up with "eating out" and why they have blocked off alternate urinals and washbasins for the "peeing" situation.
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  #13807  
Old 15.10.2020, 00:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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Only if you are doing it with someone else not in your household, which would kind of match up with "eating out" and why they have blocked off alternate urinals and washbasins for the "peeing" situation.
This post should never be taken out of its context. Ever.
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Old 15.10.2020, 00:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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The problem with the WHO is that is has never had a clear position, various WHO employees have publicly expressed various positions which allows them to always be right at some point. But this is all irrelevant, we all know that the WHO credibility, never very high to begin with, has eroded even further, this is not the point. The point is that they are now desperately trying to catch-up with the reality on the ground, which is basically, lockdowns are detrimental and create more harm than good and we are all better off not doing them. Of course, this is what has been happening already anyway, so this is a bit like the WHO announcing at midday that the night is over.
The WHO said from the beginning that lockdowns and border closures were idiotic and beyond that, there actually is a pandemic "playbook" - the only country that by and large followed it was Sweden, though.

Other than that I agree with you, the WHO has cut a questionable figure and has backtracked many times from its position. That's hardly because of a genuinely revised opinion and much more for political reasons.

Miraculously, their official revised mortality estimate has barely made it into the public discourse/mass media (0.7%, expected obviously to decrease further).

And in other good news, IMF has just announced that some 9 months into this ridiculousness there is now more global debt than after WWII. Fab. Really. Well done.

There's also been hundreds, thousands of immunologists, epidemiologists, physicians etc.pp. who have rejected the prevailing course of action from day 1. So it's beyond me whose "science" anyone is presumably "following" when the scientific community can't agree on even one goddamn thing, and that's not even bringing in politics and political ideology and interests where there's even less consensus
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  #13809  
Old 15.10.2020, 01:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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The situation really is quite dire here. The hospital in Schwyz is filling up and we have even had a few deaths again. However, the canton is ruled by SVP politicians, which is why they've implemented the above safety measures. Interestingly enough, it's actually the SVP supporters who have been hit hardest by the current wave.

Edit: Another spine-tingling detail: The Schwyzer hospital has reported that between 30 - 40% of all recent Covid-19 tests are positive. The hospital has taken on its own public awareness campaign, which may be a reaction to the local government's lack of implementing stringent safety measures to protect its citizens.
There was a piece on the Schwyz outbreak on Regionaljournal today where at the end also a spokesperson of the hospital in Einsiedeln was interviewed. She said that they have people queuing to get tested and that since the weekend are testing 40 to 50 % positive.
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  #13810  
Old 15.10.2020, 08:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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She said that they have people queuing to get tested and that since the weekend are testing 40 to 50 % positive.
That is a lot if true. On the other hand the people queuing are probably the ones who feel that they might have it hence they are queuing?

Again on the bus 4-5 people with NO mask! What a joke! I find the journalists here have no balls (or anywhere these days). No hard hitting questions to useless politicians. Without ticket, you get a fine but without mask, you get nothing Masks are allegedly supposed to save lives so why is it not implemented with more force? Oh! It's voluntary we are not N.Korea

Can you tell that non mask wearers on public transport wind me up?


Edit- While on the subject of mask, why is that younger people are exempt from it?
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  #13811  
Old 15.10.2020, 09:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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Masks are allegedly supposed to save lives so why is it not implemented with more force? Oh! It's voluntary we are not N.Korea
Except South Korea made it even more mandatory, it seemed to work. N.Korea shut the borders. Well, tighter than usually.

People here will be better with masks here, give it a few days. I just saw almost half of pedestrians with masks on in Bern, in outside areas, indoors almost all people wear masks, public transport and shops all.

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Old 15.10.2020, 09:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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So it's beyond me whose "science" anyone is presumably "following" when the scientific community can't agree on even one goddamn thing, and that's not even bringing in politics and political ideology and interests where there's even less consensus
This has been a conundrum for me too. Now in retrospect I would speculate it was a "perfect storm". In the very beginning, the media completely blew it out of proportion, which shifted public opinion instantly and it turned into a panic-mode all over. Then elected politicians had to show activity and started outdoing each other with more and more extreme measures to show to their voters that they care and they have a plan and they have things under control. The WHO and the media were then just adding more oxygen to the fire by publishing more and more alarmism and all of a sudden we were under a lockdown and then people started to think a bit more and gradually started to realize it something to take care of, but nowhere near the biblical apocalypse that was initially assumed. If you want a good laugh, just go back to the middle of this thread and read, weep, read and weep.
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Old 15.10.2020, 09:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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This has been a conundrum for me too. Now in retrospect I would speculate it was a "perfect storm". In the very beginning, the media completely blew it out of proportion, which shifted public opinion instantly and it turned into a panic-mode all over. Then elected politicians had to show activity and started outdoing each other with more and more extreme measures to show to their voters that they care and they have a plan and they have things under control. The WHO and the media were then just adding more oxygen to the fire by publishing more and more alarmism and all of a sudden we were under a lockdown and then people started to think a bit more and gradually started to realize it something to take care of, but nowhere near the biblical apocalypse that was initially assumed. If you want a good laugh, just go back to the middle of this thread and read, weep, read and weep.
Exactly, just look at the Covid doom porn that keeps on getting published in the media (e.g. the man who contracted covid twice) and how eagerly it is linked to on these pages. That it is an outlier seems to be lost on many people. Is it just human nature to focus on the negatives?

80% of ICU Covid cases are now surviving, even people in their late 80s and 90s are pulling though. Positive stories like these seem to sidelined through all the doom mongering!
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Old 15.10.2020, 10:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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Positive stories like these seem to sidelined through all the doom mongering!
Did you notice how the news of the case of re-infection got published here at least 3 separate times by 3 different people on 3 different pages?
It's a great learning of how to shape public opinion. Don't give numbers, don't give facts. Tell a story. Make it sad, scary and use names and photos. Then use expressions like "experts now agree...", "there's some evidence that.." and you can shape opinion in any direction one wants.

I'm absolutely positive that the leaders of Russia, China, Turkey and a bunch of other autocrats have been diligently taking notes of the ways public opinion in the democratic world has been shaped and they will come sooner rather than later with something else.
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Old 15.10.2020, 10:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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80% of ICU Covid cases are now surviving, even people in their late 80s and 90s are pulling though. Positive stories like these seem to sidelined through all the doom mongering!
Surviving because the scientists disparaged in the previous couple of posts have worked out new treatments.

However what you and those thanking your post still apparently refuse to accept is that the real issue is to try to avoid completely overwhelming the health system. Switzerland just - only just - made it in April, at peak 98% of ICU beds were occupied. Hospitalisations are again heading sharply upwards, if nothing is done in just a few weeks we will again be in that situation.

Here's 10 random sick people. You pick which 5 will die because you can't treat them but who would live if you could.
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Old 15.10.2020, 10:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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Did you notice how the news of the case of re-infection got published here at least 3 separate times by 3 different people on 3 different pages?
It's a great learning of how to shape public opinion. Don't give numbers, don't give facts. Tell a story. Make it sad, scary and use names and photos. Then use expressions like "experts now agree...", "there's some evidence that.." and you can shape opinion in any direction one wants.

I'm absolutely positive that the leaders of Russia, China, Turkey and a bunch of other autocrats have been diligently taking notes of the ways public opinion in the democratic world has been shaped and they will come sooner rather than later with something else.
It looks like the western media is taking notes from them. Whether you call it writing to increase sales and ratings or giving people the expected dogma and illusion of liberty - same schtick.
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Old 15.10.2020, 10:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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Did you notice how the news of the case of re-infection got published here at least 3 separate times by 3 different people on 3 different pages?
It's a great learning of how to shape public opinion. Don't give numbers, don't give facts. Tell a story. Make it sad, scary and use names and photos. Then use expressions like "experts now agree...", "there's some evidence that.." and you can shape opinion in any direction one wants.

I'm absolutely positive that the leaders of Russia, China, Turkey and a bunch of other autocrats have been diligently taking notes of the ways public opinion in the democratic world has been shaped and they will come sooner rather than later with something else.
That particularly story was important because it involved someone that got infected despite being "immune" as the virus varients have mutated so far from each other.

It has been said almost from the start that any immunity to Covid is likely to be short-term, thus questioning your darling herd immunity target. This is now basically established fact - in Switzerland alone, BAG yesterday reported multiple (no, not just one) re-infections.

The good news is that most of the main vaccine projets have assumed this would occur and their solutions are designed to get around this.

BTW Russia currently has more cases and deaths than ever before.
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Old 15.10.2020, 10:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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However what you and those thanking your post still apparently refuse to accept is that the real issue is to try to avoid completely overwhelming the health system. Switzerland just - only just - made it in April, at peak 98% of ICU beds were occupied. Hospitalisations are again heading sharply upwards, if nothing is done in just a few weeks we will again be in that situation.
Wasn't that the whole purpose of the lockdown? To give the health system time to prepare so that they wouldn't be overwhelmed?
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Old 15.10.2020, 10:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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The good news is that most of the main vaccine projets have assumed this would occur and their solutions are designed to get around this.

And the bad news is that there is no licensed vaccine yet. All are in clinical trials.
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Old 15.10.2020, 10:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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Switzerland just - only just - made it in April, at peak 98% of ICU beds were occupied.
This is not true and never was. This was a figure from a few selected hospitals in Ticino and Geneva (if my memory serves me right), not the occupancy rate in the country, it NEVER was. In fact, the spare capacity in Switzerland was such that it started accepting patients from France and Italy.
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