Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #13861  
Old 15.10.2020, 11:51
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 2,213
Groaned at 113 Times in 81 Posts
Thanked 4,216 Times in 1,637 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Have you tried the cloth masks? I found the N95 ones really uncomfortable, but the cloth ones aren't imo - and keep your face warm in this colder weather.
Surgical masks. Not that they are scratchy or anything. While you seem to like that they keep you warm, that's exactly what I dislike.
Reply With Quote
  #13862  
Old 15.10.2020, 11:57
Talk to you later's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,554
Groaned at 67 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 2,904 Times in 1,054 Posts
Talk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Have you tried the cloth masks? I found the N95 ones really uncomfortable, but the cloth ones aren't imo - and keep your face warm in this colder weather.
What is the point of cloth mask? They are useless from Corona point of view.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Talk to you later for this useful post:
  #13863  
Old 15.10.2020, 12:03
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 16,065
Groaned at 554 Times in 433 Posts
Thanked 23,839 Times in 9,622 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
What is the point of cloth mask? They are useless from Corona point of view.
Not absolutely useless - a lot better than nothing for protecting others.

If you are not wearing a mask and you cough - droplets from your mouth will contaminate an area (and people) in front of you for a good two metres.

If you cough wearing a mask, cloth or otherwise - that's just not going to happen.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #13864  
Old 15.10.2020, 12:06
kngavl's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bärn
Posts: 718
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 779 Times in 327 Posts
kngavl has a reputation beyond reputekngavl has a reputation beyond reputekngavl has a reputation beyond reputekngavl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
What is the point of cloth mask? They are useless from Corona point of view.
That's not true, the are less useful but not useless and can play an important part in reducing community infection.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article

Quote:
Until a cloth mask design is proven to be equally effective as a medical or N95 mask, wearing cloth masks should not be mandated for healthcare workers. In community settings, however, cloth masks may be used to prevent community spread of infections by sick or asymptomatically infected persons, and the public should be educated about their correct use.
Emphasis mine.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank kngavl for this useful post:
  #13865  
Old 15.10.2020, 12:07
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Do I need to read something specific, or its just a way to say: "you are too stupid to talk about it"?
Apparently it's the latter. There's lots of information out there if you can be bothered to search for it - scientific papers, press reports and interviews, podcasts.. I already did and I'm not going to look all over again just for your convenience.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at for this post:
  #13866  
Old 15.10.2020, 12:10
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 3,754
Groaned at 75 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 4,537 Times in 2,076 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
And the answer is: f--- all.
Not true at a cantonal level, just at a federal level - for example Schwyz introduced additional restrictions.
Reply With Quote
  #13867  
Old 15.10.2020, 12:11
Talk to you later's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,554
Groaned at 67 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 2,904 Times in 1,054 Posts
Talk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Semi useless then What I mean is that it is better to wear a surgical mask. The cotton one already has huge gaps between the fibres and each time it is washed, the gaps increase. I am for strong rules to implement compulsory wearing of surgical masks or better.
Reply With Quote
  #13868  
Old 15.10.2020, 12:12
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: LaCote
Posts: 1,204
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 2,179 Times in 824 Posts
Sigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

And here is todays number 2613

Out of 19k plus tests 13.4 % were positive

Last edited by Sigh; 15.10.2020 at 12:18. Reason: Added info
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Sigh for this useful post:
  #13869  
Old 15.10.2020, 12:13
Ato Ato is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,607
Groaned at 17 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 3,023 Times in 1,219 Posts
Ato has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

As far as masks go, I've a thick multi layer washable one, as well as a pack of surgical masks. The cloth one is far warmer, but both make me walk around with my head tiled backwards.
I have to place my glasses further down my nose on top of the mask and then tilt my head backwards to be able to see forwards. I think I should investigate the issue a little more as it appears this is here to stay for another while.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Ato for this useful post:
  #13870  
Old 15.10.2020, 12:22
Talk to you later's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,554
Groaned at 67 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 2,904 Times in 1,054 Posts
Talk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

I am tempted to print out few of these and hand out to thick people on the bus

Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Talk to you later for this useful post:
  #13871  
Old 15.10.2020, 12:27
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Vaud
Posts: 60
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 79 Times in 34 Posts
bunnehroo has earned some respectbunnehroo has earned some respect
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
And here is todays number 2613

Out of 19k plus tests 13.4 % were positive
41 new hospitalisations...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank bunnehroo for this useful post:
  #13872  
Old 15.10.2020, 12:31
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Thun
Posts: 50
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 103 Times in 33 Posts
Limestone is considered knowledgeableLimestone is considered knowledgeableLimestone is considered knowledgeable
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
hand out to thick people on the bus

maybe they have to because it doesn't fit.
Reply With Quote
  #13873  
Old 15.10.2020, 12:38
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Not true at a cantonal level, just at a federal level - for example Schwyz introduced additional restrictions.
...but very little that will actually make a difference sadly. Acting as though 1.5m distance indoors somehow makes everything safe (research suggests 2m for droplets but many metres for aerosols) when all that rule really does is give an open invitation for everyone who will to ignore masks.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #13874  
Old 15.10.2020, 12:39
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,656
Groaned at 584 Times in 334 Posts
Thanked 4,095 Times in 1,716 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
There are some studies that found a reduction of infections by some 25 to 30% as a consequence of mask wearing indoors. I am aware that many studies are small samples, not fully reviewed etc., so I am just saying these conclusions exist.

What level of reduction due to masks would be sufficient for you to support them? Serious question.

I am not a fan of masks, and I find them terribly uncomfortable, but I see good reasons to wear them in indoor setting.
I know people who have been forced back to the office for jobs they are perfectly capable of doing from home because their management say they are all protected because everyone now has to wear a mask at all times. In cases like this people are being put at a greater risk due to masks.

What level of reduction would be sufficient? I really don't know, there's already been enough studies carried out without there being any strong evidence and I don't see any reason why this is going to change. What's clear in my mind is that at the moment they're not having any great influence in managing the spread of Covid.

What I genuinely fear is when this is all over that the masks stay, with government's saying we got used to them during Covid and they can help prevent flu etc.
Reply With Quote
  #13875  
Old 15.10.2020, 12:42
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: na
Posts: 11,026
Groaned at 34 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 26,076 Times in 8,055 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
That's not true, the are less useful but not useless and can play an important part in reducing community infection.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article

Emphasis mine.
There are cloth masks, and then there are cloth masks.

The ditzy Z-list celebrity who showed up in a lacey mesh mask deserved the opprobrium she got showered with. Clearly 'unclear on the concept'.

But there are cloth masks that are more effective than others, for instance those made with HEIQ fabric and 3-4 layers. Obviously these do not provide the protection that an N95/FFP2 mask does, but not 'useless' either. A good thing about cloth masks is that with the right design one can ensure that the fit is close on the face at all points with no gaps, unlike one-size-fist-all surgical masks.

You can also make cloth mask 'covers', again HEIQ fabric, for surgical masks. Essentially the surgical mask is the filter. This is one way to address the gap at the sides that one gets with many surgical masks.

Whatever you chose for community masks, the key thing is to WEAR THEM PROPERLY. Cover the nose and mouth. Wear only for the recommended time, then switch. Keep a used mask in a sealable bag until you can wash or dispose of it. For cloth masks, wash/disinfect appropriately after each use.

And still keep appropriate distance!

It's the combination - acting sensibly to reduce risk as you choose activities, keeping distance when you go out, disinfecting hands, wearing a mask - that can help reduce spread. All simple, easy things one can do to help out one's community... and prevent the need for more drastic measures.



---

ETA:

Is there still a shortage of N95s? All I see in stores are CE surgical/community masks.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
  #13876  
Old 15.10.2020, 12:42
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 4,333
Groaned at 128 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 7,258 Times in 2,761 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I won't address all of this but I will contradict something I have direct experience with. I really am dumbfounded about how children are robbed of education and socialisation? All three of my kids did on line schooling with great success during the barely two months or so of physical shutdown of schools. No subjects missed, still passed school and state exams at end. This school year, most are physical school, others online again with no consequences. Created bubble with neighbours for socialisation during shutdown. Camps, activities as usual in summer and fall. Facetime, hangouts with friends etc.
Good for your kids that they have access to a computer, Wifi and probably their own room. Also good for people like me as I'm lucky enough to have a job that I can easily do from home even if it comes with its own challenges.

That is not the reality for the massive majority of even Western countries, let alone the world at large.

It's precisely this narrow-mindedness of us rich folks in cushy situations that is the problem.
Reply With Quote
  #13877  
Old 15.10.2020, 12:43
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I know people who have been forced back to the office for jobs they are perfectly capable of doing from home because their management say they are all protected because everyone now has to wear a mask at all times. In cases like this people are being put at a greater risk due to masks.
No. They're being put at risk due to idiot management.

A friend (in a risk group) is being forced to work in a shop without a mask because it is not a requirement here and their idiot manager thinks that means they don't have to protect themselves.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #13878  
Old 15.10.2020, 12:46
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 2,213
Groaned at 113 Times in 81 Posts
Thanked 4,216 Times in 1,637 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post

What level of reduction would be sufficient? I really don't know, there's already been enough studies carried out without there being any strong evidence and I don't see any reason why this is going to change. What's clear in my mind is that at the moment they're not having any great influence in managing the spread of Covid.
What I expected.
Reply With Quote
  #13879  
Old 15.10.2020, 12:48
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 10,826
Groaned at 346 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 15,837 Times in 8,088 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
What is the point of cloth mask? They are useless from Corona point of view.
There are some cloth masks that didn't pass the requited efficiency tests and were withdrawn from the market, but it doesn't mean all of them are "useless"/bad quality. If I recall correctly, it was Aldi and another big retailer that have recently taken out some cloth masks they were selling for a short while. I'm glad that product quality is monitored here, maybe much more than in other places.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #13880  
Old 15.10.2020, 12:49
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,656
Groaned at 584 Times in 334 Posts
Thanked 4,095 Times in 1,716 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
No. They're being put at risk due to idiot management.

A friend (in a risk group) is being forced to work in a shop without a mask because it is not a requirement here and their idiot manager thinks that means they don't have to protect themselves.
That's true, but idiot management misrepresenting the efficacy of masks and putting people at risk.

It also leads on to something that I find deeply uncomfortable with lockdown measures, the middle classes and white collar types get to shelter whilst the working classes bring them things and take all the risk.

Quote:
View Post
What I expected.
In an ideal would like a full peer review study that proves the efficacy of masks when under general use by entire populations. Is that better?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cold, corona, coronavirus, covid, covid-19, flu, health, medical, virus




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coronavirus Jokes makeabigwish Daily life 256 Yesterday 21:06
Coronavirus closed janvier Forum support 18 01.11.2020 13:12
Paid holidays and coronavirus Curtiss Employment 2 20.04.2020 09:22
Coronavirus scammers are out there - be warned Medea Fleecestealer Daily life 9 18.04.2020 18:53
Leaving Switzerland for UK during coronavirus barkingtreewolf Leaving Switzerland 19 11.04.2020 11:45


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:27.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0