Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #14081  
Old 17.10.2020, 21:53
V__'s Avatar
V__ V__ is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 1,294
Groaned at 276 Times in 153 Posts
Thanked 1,333 Times in 639 Posts
V__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Ueli Maurer calls for not giving in to hysteria

"According to the Federal Councilor, a general strengthening of the rules is not appropriate. ‘It is not acceptable to close schools again and lock people up. We must learn to live with the virus – with consistent implementation of measures. But we must be able to live! ‘, He emphasizes."

Some of us on EF have been calling for that since the beginning
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank V__ for this useful post:
  #14082  
Old 17.10.2020, 21:54
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,611
Groaned at 404 Times in 348 Posts
Thanked 17,172 Times in 9,245 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Lockdown killed two people for every three that died of the coronavirus, shocking new government figures have revealed.

.It is thought that as many as 16,000 people died because they didn't get medical care between March 23 and May 1.

In the same period, 25,000 Britons died of the virus.

The new figures were presented to the Government's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) in the middle of July.

They were calculated by the Department of Health, the Office for National Statistics (ONS), the Government Actuary's Department and the Home Office.

The 16,000 people who died included 6,000 who didn't go to A&E during lockdown because they feared catching the virus.

Another 10,000 people are thought to have died in care homes after early discharge from hospital and a lack of access to care.

.
It was not the lockdowns but fear of COVID-19 that was the problem.

You believe that if there were no lockdowns so consequently hospitals would have been packed wall to wall with COVID-19 patients and as estimated people would have been dying in their hundreds of thousands but nevertheless these 6,000 who didn't go to A&E because they feared catching the virus suddenly overcame their fear and trotted along? Excuse me!
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #14083  
Old 17.10.2020, 22:00
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 799
Groaned at 263 Times in 171 Posts
Thanked 1,767 Times in 870 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Every reputable virologist says that the virus is not weakened.
It was just never that dangerous for the vast majority of people to begin with!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #14084  
Old 17.10.2020, 22:20
Talk to you later's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: ZH
Posts: 542
Groaned at 25 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 892 Times in 357 Posts
Talk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Just thinking out loud (Swiss numbers only). Please fact-check me

1- On average, how many people die each year from flu? Apparently 1500?
2- How many people died this year from Covid? 1823 (2 more months to go)
3- Is the average age of people who died from Covid really 82?
4- Swiss life expectancy is 83 years?
5- In the worst ever flu season, how many people died in one year? (In the last 10 years)

Last edited by Talk to you later; 17.10.2020 at 22:32.
Reply With Quote
  #14085  
Old 17.10.2020, 22:34
V__'s Avatar
V__ V__ is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 1,294
Groaned at 276 Times in 153 Posts
Thanked 1,333 Times in 639 Posts
V__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Just thinking out loud (Swiss numbers only). Please fact-check me

1- On average, how many people die each year from flu? Apparently 1500?
2- How many people died this year from Covid? 1823 (2 more months to go)
3- Is the average age of people who died from Covid really 82?
4- Swiss life expectancy is 83 years?
5- In the worst ever flu season, how many people died in one year?
You are spot on with your numbers.

2015 was particulary bad year:

In 2015, there were 68 000 deaths, 3000 more than would
have been expected according to the trend of the past ten years.
The reasons for this increase were the flu epidemic in spring
(some 2500 additional deaths)
and the heatwave in July (around
500 deaths)

https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfsstatic/d...3742832/master

Nobody panicked to call for a lock down then
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank V__ for this useful post:
  #14086  
Old 17.10.2020, 22:38
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 799
Groaned at 263 Times in 171 Posts
Thanked 1,767 Times in 870 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Remember at the beginning of the pandemic we were hearing how catching the virus was like being "hit by a train". Now there's thousands of students running around their halls of residence who are infected and don't even realise that they have it!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #14087  
Old 17.10.2020, 22:39
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 19,022
Groaned at 385 Times in 295 Posts
Thanked 18,852 Times in 10,153 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
You are spot on with your numbers.

2015 was particulary bad year:

In 2015, there were 68 000 deaths, 3000 more than would
have been expected according to the trend of the past ten years.
The reasons for this increase were the flu epidemic in spring
(some 2500 additional deaths)
and the heatwave in July (around
500 deaths)

https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfsstatic/d...3742832/master

Nobody panicked to call for a lock down then
Basically it's equivalent to a moderately bad flu year but nothing like as bad as 1957/8 or 1968/9. World population has more than doubled since then.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #14088  
Old 17.10.2020, 22:45
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 2,708
Groaned at 45 Times in 42 Posts
Thanked 3,168 Times in 1,443 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Just thinking out loud (Swiss numbers only). Please fact-check me

1- On average, how many people die each year from flu? Apparently 1500?
2- How many people died this year from Covid? 1823 (2 more months to go)
3- Is the average age of people who died from Covid really 82?
4- Swiss life expectancy is 83 years?
5- In the worst ever flu season, how many people died in one year? (In the last 10 years)
The problem is that the flu dates don't align with the coronavirus dates, since we haven't yet had a winter with coronavirus.

Flu rates are about five times higher in winter, and it's expected coronavirus will be similar or maybe worse if there isn't a vaccine as for flu. So that would suggest actually if we count through the winter we could have around 10000 COVID deaths by next spring.
Reply With Quote
  #14089  
Old 17.10.2020, 22:48
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 10,683
Groaned at 77 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 17,708 Times in 7,953 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Nobody panicked to call for a lock down then
Probably because hospitals weren't at capacity trying to care for the sick, and it wasn't hitting multiple countries at the same time.

I think the panic started when the world saw how China reacted, building a hospital within days to deal with the patients. Governments freaked out at such a prospect.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #14090  
Old 17.10.2020, 22:51
Talk to you later's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: ZH
Posts: 542
Groaned at 25 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 892 Times in 357 Posts
Talk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

You know what I hate about ageing? I will be entering these risk groups in the future! Eternal health/life pill is what I need

A moral question, if killing a random adult on "Eternal Life day" gave you 5 life times worth of perfect health, would you do it? Be honest.

"Eternal Life day"- Once a year when killing is legally allowed.
Reply With Quote
  #14091  
Old 17.10.2020, 23:43
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 11,454
Groaned at 183 Times in 151 Posts
Thanked 12,864 Times in 6,726 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Ueli Maurer calls for not giving in to hysteria

"According to the Federal Councilor, a general strengthening of the rules is not appropriate. ‘It is not acceptable to close schools again and lock people up. We must learn to live with the virus – with consistent implementation of measures. But we must be able to live! ‘, He emphasizes."

Some of us on EF have been calling for that since the beginning
Thing is, you called too early.
I'm quite content with the government trying to check out first, what we have to learn to live with.

But I agree. It's time to live with it.
Reply With Quote
  #14092  
Old 17.10.2020, 23:55
baboon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 4,049
Groaned at 155 Times in 134 Posts
Thanked 7,083 Times in 3,250 Posts
baboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Ueli Maurer calls for not giving in to hysteria

"According to the Federal Councilor, a general strengthening of the rules is not appropriate. ‘It is not acceptable to close schools again and lock people up. We must learn to live with the virus – with consistent implementation of measures. But we must be able to live! ‘, He emphasizes."

Some of us on EF have been calling for that since the beginning
Rule of thumb is to do the opposite of whatever Maurer says. One of the worst Swiss politicians, an intellectual dwarf.

His (and others) inaction is going to bring the health system to its limits in a few weeks. Unless they really act tomorrow .
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank baboon for this useful post:
  #14093  
Old 18.10.2020, 00:01
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,611
Groaned at 404 Times in 348 Posts
Thanked 17,172 Times in 9,245 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Just thinking out loud (Swiss numbers only). Please fact-check me

1- On average, how many people die each year from flu? Apparently 1500?
2- How many people died this year from Covid? 1823 (2 more months to go)
3- Is the average age of people who died from Covid really 82?
4- Swiss life expectancy is 83 years?
5- In the worst ever flu season, how many people died in one year? (In the last 10 years)
You might be interested in this graph based on EU data which shows the daily COVID death rate in Switzerland is around 20 times the flu death rate.
The graph is quite small but you can see the original here.
Name:  Covid_flu.jpg
Views: 165
Size:  55.8 KB
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #14094  
Old 18.10.2020, 00:09
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 3,861
Groaned at 181 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 7,340 Times in 2,870 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
You are spot on with your numbers.

2015 was particulary bad year:

In 2015, there were 68 000 deaths, 3000 more than would
have been expected according to the trend of the past ten years.
The reasons for this increase were the flu epidemic in spring
(some 2500 additional deaths)
and the heatwave in July (around
500 deaths)

https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfsstatic/d...3742832/master

Nobody panicked to call for a lock down then
COVID is deadlier than the flu.

How scientists know COVID-19 is way deadlier than the flu

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/s...lity-rate-cvd/
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Pancakes for this useful post:
  #14095  
Old 18.10.2020, 00:18
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 200
Groaned at 16 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 194 Times in 104 Posts
vladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
It was not the lockdowns but fear of COVID-19 that was the problem.
and who is fueling the fear?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank vladest for this useful post:
  #14096  
Old 18.10.2020, 00:19
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 200
Groaned at 16 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 194 Times in 104 Posts
vladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Remember at the beginning of the pandemic we were hearing how catching the virus was like being "hit by a train". Now there's thousands of students running around their halls of residence who are infected and don't even realise that they have it!
well...that was probably very small train
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank vladest for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at vladest for this post:
  #14097  
Old 18.10.2020, 00:23
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,611
Groaned at 404 Times in 348 Posts
Thanked 17,172 Times in 9,245 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Remember at the beginning of the pandemic we were hearing how catching the virus was like being "hit by a train". Now there's thousands of students running around their halls of residence who are infected and don't even realise that they have it!
Lucky them, unlike the 1.1 Million dead being mourned by family and friends.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #14098  
Old 18.10.2020, 00:34
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 3,861
Groaned at 181 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 7,340 Times in 2,870 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
and who is fueling the fear?
Gee, maybe it's people like scientists and doctors who have an understanding of how deadly this virus is.

Just as a bit of a reality check for you... This is someone who had died of COVID. I don't know if you have loved ones, but personally I'd rather not see them go like this.

Name:  corona death2.jpg
Views: 137
Size:  92.7 KB

Maybe you should leave your bubble long enough to take some time and learn about what it's like to have COVID and be lying in a hospital bed struggling to breathe. Because I don't think you're going to find one doctor or nurse in an ICU unit who would agree with you that COVID is no big deal.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Pancakes for this useful post:
  #14099  
Old 18.10.2020, 00:38
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 3,861
Groaned at 181 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 7,340 Times in 2,870 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

I seriously wish we could have two separate Coronavirus threads -- one for the anti-maskers and people who think COVID is no big deal, and one for the people who take this pandemic seriously and share important and useful information.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Pancakes for this useful post:
  #14100  
Old 18.10.2020, 00:44
baboon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 4,049
Groaned at 155 Times in 134 Posts
Thanked 7,083 Times in 3,250 Posts
baboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Just thinking out loud (Swiss numbers only). Please fact-check me

1- On average, how many people die each year from flu? Apparently 1500?
2- How many people died this year from Covid? 1823 (2 more months to go)
3- Is the average age of people who died from Covid really 82?
4- Swiss life expectancy is 83 years?
5- In the worst ever flu season, how many people died in one year? (In the last 10 years)
You forgot
6. How many were likely to have died from Covid if there hadn't been a lockdown
Reply With Quote
The following 10 users would like to thank baboon for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
cold, corona, coronavirus, covid, covid-19, flu, health, medical, virus




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:55.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0