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  #14081  
Old 17.10.2020, 21:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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Did I ever post this... worth watching

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Af6b_wyiwI

This is TED 2015 the next outbreak?
The title "TED - ideas worth spreading" has become a bit creepy.
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  #14082  
Old 17.10.2020, 21:53
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Re: Coronavirus

Ueli Maurer calls for not giving in to hysteria

"According to the Federal Councilor, a general strengthening of the rules is not appropriate. ‘It is not acceptable to close schools again and lock people up. We must learn to live with the virus – with consistent implementation of measures. But we must be able to live! ‘, He emphasizes."

Some of us on EF have been calling for that since the beginning
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  #14083  
Old 17.10.2020, 21:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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Lockdown killed two people for every three that died of the coronavirus, shocking new government figures have revealed.

.It is thought that as many as 16,000 people died because they didn't get medical care between March 23 and May 1.

In the same period, 25,000 Britons died of the virus.

The new figures were presented to the Government's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) in the middle of July.

They were calculated by the Department of Health, the Office for National Statistics (ONS), the Government Actuary's Department and the Home Office.

The 16,000 people who died included 6,000 who didn't go to A&E during lockdown because they feared catching the virus.

Another 10,000 people are thought to have died in care homes after early discharge from hospital and a lack of access to care.

.
It was not the lockdowns but fear of COVID-19 that was the problem.

You believe that if there were no lockdowns so consequently hospitals would have been packed wall to wall with COVID-19 patients and as estimated people would have been dying in their hundreds of thousands but nevertheless these 6,000 who didn't go to A&E because they feared catching the virus suddenly overcame their fear and trotted along? Excuse me!
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  #14084  
Old 17.10.2020, 22:00
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Re: Coronavirus

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Every reputable virologist says that the virus is not weakened.
It was just never that dangerous for the vast majority of people to begin with!
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  #14085  
Old 17.10.2020, 22:20
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Re: Coronavirus

Just thinking out loud (Swiss numbers only). Please fact-check me

1- On average, how many people die each year from flu? Apparently 1500?
2- How many people died this year from Covid? 1823 (2 more months to go)
3- Is the average age of people who died from Covid really 82?
4- Swiss life expectancy is 83 years?
5- In the worst ever flu season, how many people died in one year? (In the last 10 years)

Last edited by Talk to you later; 17.10.2020 at 22:32.
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  #14086  
Old 17.10.2020, 22:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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Just thinking out loud (Swiss numbers only). Please fact-check me

1- On average, how many people die each year from flu? Apparently 1500?
2- How many people died this year from Covid? 1823 (2 more months to go)
3- Is the average age of people who died from Covid really 82?
4- Swiss life expectancy is 83 years?
5- In the worst ever flu season, how many people died in one year?
You are spot on with your numbers.

2015 was particulary bad year:

In 2015, there were 68 000 deaths, 3000 more than would
have been expected according to the trend of the past ten years.
The reasons for this increase were the flu epidemic in spring
(some 2500 additional deaths)
and the heatwave in July (around
500 deaths)

https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfsstatic/d...3742832/master

Nobody panicked to call for a lock down then
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  #14087  
Old 17.10.2020, 22:38
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Re: Coronavirus

Remember at the beginning of the pandemic we were hearing how catching the virus was like being "hit by a train". Now there's thousands of students running around their halls of residence who are infected and don't even realise that they have it!
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  #14088  
Old 17.10.2020, 22:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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You are spot on with your numbers.

2015 was particulary bad year:

In 2015, there were 68 000 deaths, 3000 more than would
have been expected according to the trend of the past ten years.
The reasons for this increase were the flu epidemic in spring
(some 2500 additional deaths)
and the heatwave in July (around
500 deaths)

https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfsstatic/d...3742832/master

Nobody panicked to call for a lock down then
Basically it's equivalent to a moderately bad flu year but nothing like as bad as 1957/8 or 1968/9. World population has more than doubled since then.
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  #14089  
Old 17.10.2020, 22:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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Just thinking out loud (Swiss numbers only). Please fact-check me

1- On average, how many people die each year from flu? Apparently 1500?
2- How many people died this year from Covid? 1823 (2 more months to go)
3- Is the average age of people who died from Covid really 82?
4- Swiss life expectancy is 83 years?
5- In the worst ever flu season, how many people died in one year? (In the last 10 years)
The problem is that the flu dates don't align with the coronavirus dates, since we haven't yet had a winter with coronavirus.

Flu rates are about five times higher in winter, and it's expected coronavirus will be similar or maybe worse if there isn't a vaccine as for flu. So that would suggest actually if we count through the winter we could have around 10000 COVID deaths by next spring.
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  #14090  
Old 17.10.2020, 22:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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Nobody panicked to call for a lock down then
Probably because hospitals weren't at capacity trying to care for the sick, and it wasn't hitting multiple countries at the same time.

I think the panic started when the world saw how China reacted, building a hospital within days to deal with the patients. Governments freaked out at such a prospect.
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  #14091  
Old 17.10.2020, 22:51
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Re: Coronavirus

You know what I hate about ageing? I will be entering these risk groups in the future! Eternal health/life pill is what I need

A moral question, if killing a random adult on "Eternal Life day" gave you 5 life times worth of perfect health, would you do it? Be honest.

"Eternal Life day"- Once a year when killing is legally allowed.
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  #14092  
Old 17.10.2020, 23:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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Ueli Maurer calls for not giving in to hysteria

"According to the Federal Councilor, a general strengthening of the rules is not appropriate. ‘It is not acceptable to close schools again and lock people up. We must learn to live with the virus – with consistent implementation of measures. But we must be able to live! ‘, He emphasizes."

Some of us on EF have been calling for that since the beginning
Thing is, you called too early.
I'm quite content with the government trying to check out first, what we have to learn to live with.

But I agree. It's time to live with it.
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  #14093  
Old 17.10.2020, 23:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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Ueli Maurer calls for not giving in to hysteria

"According to the Federal Councilor, a general strengthening of the rules is not appropriate. ‘It is not acceptable to close schools again and lock people up. We must learn to live with the virus – with consistent implementation of measures. But we must be able to live! ‘, He emphasizes."

Some of us on EF have been calling for that since the beginning
Rule of thumb is to do the opposite of whatever Maurer says. One of the worst Swiss politicians, an intellectual dwarf.

His (and others) inaction is going to bring the health system to its limits in a few weeks. Unless they really act tomorrow .
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  #14094  
Old 18.10.2020, 00:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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Just thinking out loud (Swiss numbers only). Please fact-check me

1- On average, how many people die each year from flu? Apparently 1500?
2- How many people died this year from Covid? 1823 (2 more months to go)
3- Is the average age of people who died from Covid really 82?
4- Swiss life expectancy is 83 years?
5- In the worst ever flu season, how many people died in one year? (In the last 10 years)
You might be interested in this graph based on EU data which shows the daily COVID death rate in Switzerland is around 20 times the flu death rate.
The graph is quite small but you can see the original here.
Name:  Covid_flu.jpg
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Size:  55.8 KB
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  #14095  
Old 18.10.2020, 00:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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You are spot on with your numbers.

2015 was particulary bad year:

In 2015, there were 68 000 deaths, 3000 more than would
have been expected according to the trend of the past ten years.
The reasons for this increase were the flu epidemic in spring
(some 2500 additional deaths)
and the heatwave in July (around
500 deaths)

https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfsstatic/d...3742832/master

Nobody panicked to call for a lock down then
COVID is deadlier than the flu.

How scientists know COVID-19 is way deadlier than the flu

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/s...lity-rate-cvd/
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Old 18.10.2020, 00:18
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Re: Coronavirus

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It was not the lockdowns but fear of COVID-19 that was the problem.
and who is fueling the fear?
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Old 18.10.2020, 00:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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Remember at the beginning of the pandemic we were hearing how catching the virus was like being "hit by a train". Now there's thousands of students running around their halls of residence who are infected and don't even realise that they have it!
well...that was probably very small train
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  #14098  
Old 18.10.2020, 00:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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Remember at the beginning of the pandemic we were hearing how catching the virus was like being "hit by a train". Now there's thousands of students running around their halls of residence who are infected and don't even realise that they have it!
Lucky them, unlike the 1.1 Million dead being mourned by family and friends.
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Old 18.10.2020, 00:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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and who is fueling the fear?
Gee, maybe it's people like scientists and doctors who have an understanding of how deadly this virus is.

Just as a bit of a reality check for you... This is someone who had died of COVID. I don't know if you have loved ones, but personally I'd rather not see them go like this.

Name:  corona death2.jpg
Views: 130
Size:  92.7 KB

Maybe you should leave your bubble long enough to take some time and learn about what it's like to have COVID and be lying in a hospital bed struggling to breathe. Because I don't think you're going to find one doctor or nurse in an ICU unit who would agree with you that COVID is no big deal.
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Old 18.10.2020, 00:38
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Re: Coronavirus

I seriously wish we could have two separate Coronavirus threads -- one for the anti-maskers and people who think COVID is no big deal, and one for the people who take this pandemic seriously and share important and useful information.
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