Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #14201  
Old 18.10.2020, 21:07
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 4,361
Groaned at 128 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 7,258 Times in 2,761 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I never said I had an idea on the how.

I've repeatedly asked those with the over-simplified mantra of "protect the elderly and let the rest of us get on with our lives" to offer their suggestions on how exactly we make such a thing work.

If it's that easy to just do it, let's hear how to do it. I'm all ears. I want my life back to normal too!
Again see above. Since it's claimed that the current measures protect everyone, those same measures can be applied for those that actually need it. Cancel large events for all I care. Maybe visit your grandma while wearing a mask (a proper one, not one you've worn 15 times before), or just go for a walk outside and keep a bit of distance. Don't close childcare and schools to then force your own parents to look after your kids as you work, at home or otherwise. Maybe in the long run (ex-Switzerland as it's ok here) don't continuously reduce healthcare services or underpay your workers so the entire sector isn't stretched every year and utterly ill-equipped to deal with anything that is out of the ordinary.

And above all, find something that resembles something of a strategy that incorporates all factors and trade-offs instead of relying on one-sided theoretical models and blind reactionism, finally invite all disciplines into the conversation to reach at least a remotely balanced plan, and accept that you simply can't control everything,
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Samaire13 for this useful post:
  #14202  
Old 18.10.2020, 21:08
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ausserschwyz
Posts: 674
Groaned at 25 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 1,137 Times in 455 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
By the same measures used to "protect everyone" of course. I thought social distancing and wearing masks were working beautifully?
Which means you have to distance and you wear a mask. So what is your problem?
Reply With Quote
  #14203  
Old 18.10.2020, 21:09
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: ZH
Posts: 43
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 69 Times in 24 Posts
Son of Mom has earned the respect of manySon of Mom has earned the respect of manySon of Mom has earned the respect of many
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
and this will lasts forever, since virus will not gone

Noithing lasts forever. Have a trust into human capability to invent and develop.


More so, I think this entire crisis will help us to develop general anti-viral treatments which will be very beneficial in long term with other pathogens.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Son of Mom for this useful post:
  #14204  
Old 18.10.2020, 21:14
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 4,361
Groaned at 128 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 7,258 Times in 2,761 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Why do we even have to set restrictions? Why can't arrogant and selfish people think farther then their own nose?
Oh how terrible, poor you have to wear a mask and face "restrictions", this is just pathetic. You want restrictions? Think about what our grandparents had to live through during 5 years of WW2 and just stop whining about not being able to visit Bar in the evening.


As of millions and millions of jobs hanging on Bar / Restaurant and Entertainment industry: this is simply BS, first of all those are not "millions and millions", second this is not forever and third we are one of the freaking richest nations of the world. We CAN support those people, where is the will there is a way.
Of course it's millions and millions, I'm never only talking about Switzerland. And how exactly do you believe "those people can be supported" for who-knows-how-long? Money doesn't grow on trees.

Also, I have not once said this was about me, or that I'm not wearing a mask (I don't care if I have to even if it makes no sense). I have also not once said that "poor me had to blablabla". Believe it or not, some people are actually more interested in large-scale effects
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Samaire13 for this useful post:
  #14205  
Old 18.10.2020, 21:22
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 15,004
Groaned at 474 Times in 379 Posts
Thanked 21,372 Times in 8,767 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Why do we even have to set restrictions? Why can't arrogant and selfish people think farther then their own nose?
Oh how terrible, poor you have to wear a mask and face "restrictions", this is just pathetic. You want restrictions? Think about what our grandparents had to live through during 5 years of WW2 and just stop whining about not being able to visit Bar in the evening.
I don't think that analogy works here.

You'll need another one more suited.

Something about arrogant and selfish would probably do - as you wrote.
Reply With Quote
  #14206  
Old 18.10.2020, 21:37
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 3,865
Groaned at 181 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 7,361 Times in 2,877 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
It's not Russian Roulette. Protect the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions. Let the rest go about things as always.
That's not really feasible, because for one thing, a lot of people who are high-risk / vulnerable don't even know that they are. Also, many people who are vulnerable still have to send their kids to school, etc., which still puts them at risk of catching the virus.

Do you seriously think that everyone who is pregnant, has high-blood pressure, etc. can just completely isolate themselves from their families? Think about all of the elderly people in the world who live alone and have no one to help them.

I'm sorry, but your suggestion is based on ignorance. You really did NOT consider all the variables.

Quote:
View Post
By the same measures used to "protect everyone" of course. I thought social distancing and wearing masks were working beautifully?
We don't have many options right now. Masks and social distancing are two of the very few options that we do have for trying to gain some degree of control over the spread of this virus. Why is it that you're unable to mentally process that? It's not rocket science.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Pancakes for this useful post:
  #14207  
Old 18.10.2020, 21:54
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,638
Groaned at 409 Times in 353 Posts
Thanked 17,259 Times in 9,277 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
See above.

And since ruining everyone (even more) to protect the very few is obviously not a strategy for even the near term, what would all your suggestion be then? I guess you must have an idea for the perfect course of action and I'm sure the world would love to hear it.
What is your definition of very few?
Admittedly the following numbers will have some overlap but it looks like your "very few" is between a third and a half of the Swiss population.

From the Swiss Federal Office of Public Health COVID-19 high risk list.
Over 65's in Switzerland = 17.8%

People with high blood pressure = 36%

People who are clinically obese = 17%

People with asthma = 7%

People with diabetes 6%

How many pregnant women =1%
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #14208  
Old 18.10.2020, 21:59
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,638
Groaned at 409 Times in 353 Posts
Thanked 17,259 Times in 9,277 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Twitter said it took down a tweet from a member of President Trump’s coronavirus task force for violating the social media network's policy on misleading information about COVID-19.

The post from Scott Atlas read, "Masks work? NO" followed by several posts questioning the effectiveness of masks in combating the spread of the coronavirus.
Source

No doubt EF has sound reasons for allowing the spread of such deadly advice?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #14209  
Old 18.10.2020, 22:03
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ausserschwyz
Posts: 674
Groaned at 25 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 1,137 Times in 455 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
So if it's impossible to protect only the vulnerable, how can we expect to be feasible to protect everybody else?
Voron
Reply With Quote
  #14210  
Old 18.10.2020, 22:08
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 8,050
Groaned at 349 Times in 283 Posts
Thanked 10,412 Times in 5,500 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I have never taken Covid lightly I actually wanted to deal with figures that were 100% known, hence my questions.
At age 80, your life expectancy in this beautiful country is ~10 years (9 for men, 11 for women). For every 2 years lived the remaining expectancy is reduced by one year. Thus a man at age 82 can statistically expect to have another 8 years, for example. Of course, those numbers are in the "roughly right" region to simplify memorising. If you want precise numbers search for "Schweiz Lebenserwartung nach Alter und Geschlecht" or similar.

The comparison with the flu is useless. If it came from a talking head or someone with expertise in a biological field it would be either moronic or amounting to a blatant lie. An ordinary flu is met with natural immunity, only a relatively few seem to be infected easily in the first place, and those are concentrated among a relatively small group. Furthermore, people decide for themselves to reduce the risk (or not) by getting the shot (or not).

In short, even if a new flu bug were to develop we probably know how to fight it and produce a vaccine at very short notice, basically at a whim.
(Ok, probably with a few months delay. But still.)

This doesn't apply to Covid at all.

Take a look at Italian numers, keeping in mind that the virus struck, basically, northern Italy only and thus was concentrated among 1/3 of the entire population. Furthermore, assume that the virus is allowed to spread completely unchecked until the entire population has been infected. IIRC numbers from Bergamo, the center of the epidemic, indicate that even after the devastation they suffered only 1/3 have developed antibodies.

While more is known now than half a year go, we're still far from seeing it as an ordinary flu than can be checked whenever the need arises. The only "weapon" we have is reducing interations between people. Also known as lockdown of one shape or other.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #14211  
Old 18.10.2020, 22:21
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 8,050
Groaned at 349 Times in 283 Posts
Thanked 10,412 Times in 5,500 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Nature is the biggest lab ever, I get that but how can you be sure that there was no further manipulation? Even accidental release?
We did not have the advanced tech to manipulate back then, now we do.
Bio and chemical weapons exist, so it is not as if humans have any problems when it comes to creating evil stuff.
What does the answer to that question matter?

Some nations experiment on biological and chemical weapons, including the US, Russia, and China. They may do this in the open or not, but experiment they do. That won't change whatever the answer to the above happens to be, and unless a nation says "it was me" you can't be sure anyway. Maybe not even if they did.

Some in the US say it escaped from a lab near Wuhan. But there was also some sort of military festival, with US military members taking part, a while before it was discovered, so who guarantees it isn't a US false flag operation that's supposed to let them blame China? Trump has been very vocal WRT China, you could easily take that as motive.

On the other hand the virus has been found in wastewater probes taken in Torino and Milano in mid-December, clearly before the first victims got identified. Doesn't that mean the Italians are the most likely culprit? Why doesn't Trump blame them?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #14212  
Old 18.10.2020, 22:35
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: ZH
Posts: 43
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 69 Times in 24 Posts
Son of Mom has earned the respect of manySon of Mom has earned the respect of manySon of Mom has earned the respect of many
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I don't think that analogy works here.

You'll need another one more suited.

Something about arrogant and selfish would probably do - as you wrote.
Not to diminish suffering of WW2 (Corona is not comparable indeed) but Merkel rightfully called this crisis a "biggest German challenge since WW2". This applies to entire western Europe.

We can only keep this disease in check if everyone learns to ask him/herself a very simple question every day and every hour for the next 6 Months: "Assuming I have Corona, how do I make sure that I do not infect the others" and act accordingly. We would need no restrictions, no requirements to wear masks or gloves.


Sadly we are living in mememememe society and quite a few people either do not care at all or only care about not being infected themselves while giving a damn about others.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Son of Mom for this useful post:
  #14213  
Old 18.10.2020, 22:36
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 2,788
Groaned at 47 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 3,262 Times in 1,490 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Source

No doubt EF has sound reasons for allowing the spread of such deadly advice?
Anyone who takes advice from EF that seriously has bigger problems than a dose of coronavirus

Particularly on a thread with 14000+ replies.

Despite taking our opinions far too seriously sometimes, none of us (afaik) are advisor to the leader of a major country on healthcare topics.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank newtoswitz for this useful post:
  #14214  
Old 18.10.2020, 22:39
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 3,865
Groaned at 181 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 7,361 Times in 2,877 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Having to weed through all of this "the virus is no big deal," "masks are useless," etc. crap is annoying as F*.

Complaining about masks and restrictions on the English Forum isn't going to change the government's mind. It's also not going to help make the pandemic go away.

It's just wasting people's time.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Pancakes for this useful post:
  #14215  
Old 18.10.2020, 22:43
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 2,788
Groaned at 47 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 3,262 Times in 1,490 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Having to weed through all of this "the virus is no big deal," "masks are useless," etc. crap is annoying as F*.

Complaining about masks and restrictions on the English Forum isn't going to change the government's mind. It's also not going to help make the pandemic go away.

It's just wasting people's time.
I agree with the sentiment, but you know it isn't actually compulsory to read the thread? There's even an "ignore thread" option so it doesn't pop up and bother you.

Nothing we write here is going to make the pandemic go away; and forget the government, changing the mind of someone on EF itself would be a rare and special event!
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank newtoswitz for this useful post:
  #14216  
Old 18.10.2020, 22:46
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 8,050
Groaned at 349 Times in 283 Posts
Thanked 10,412 Times in 5,500 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
world control. one can do it much easier in atmosphere of fear
Any group strong enough to control the world doesn't need this kind of fuss to begin with.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #14217  
Old 18.10.2020, 22:56
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 3,865
Groaned at 181 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 7,361 Times in 2,877 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I agree with the sentiment, but you know it isn't actually compulsory to read the thread? There's even an "ignore thread" option so it doesn't pop up and bother you.

Nothing we write here is going to make the pandemic go away; and forget the government, changing the mind of someone on EF itself would be a rare and special event!
Yeah, I've been trying to decide whether or not I should block them. I remember when I was little, my mother use to tell me that if I just ignored wasps, they would go away.
Reply With Quote
  #14218  
Old 18.10.2020, 22:58
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 816
Groaned at 280 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 1,823 Times in 889 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Money has been burnt at an astonishing rate, with very littles to show for it. The cost of the carrying trade has long exceeded any possible benefit, governments realise this. I can be sure they don't have the balls to to say it out loud as they would be lambasted by the lefties.
Exactly, the entire pandemic is currently being propped up by quantitative easing and low interest rates. It's basically luxury communism in many countries, of course people are happy to sit at home doing nothing whilst receiving 80% of their salary.

People in the UK are wanting more lockdown measures and saying the government aren't going far enough, furlough finishes at the end of the month, I think many will soon come to their senses!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #14219  
Old 18.10.2020, 23:26
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 816
Groaned at 280 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 1,823 Times in 889 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

So this is just a Twitter poll, so should come with all the relevant precautions and warnings, but isn't it depressing? It also closely resembles a similar poll held in the UK recently with most people being dissatisfied with the state response.

I may whine a lot about masks, but I'd rather masks be introduced than restaurant and shop closures. What's worse, is that I expect the measures introduced today won't make much of a difference. The young will just ignore the rules, and I don't blame them, and we'll continue to see cases rising.

So what then? More measures, then when cases begin to drop things are relaxed, cases begin to rise so measures are reintroduced ad infinitum (or until the end of spring 2021)? It's not really a very good strategy of dealing with the virus.

https://twitter.com/CoronaEnglish/st...34380522520578
Reply With Quote
  #14220  
Old 18.10.2020, 23:41
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,638
Groaned at 409 Times in 353 Posts
Thanked 17,259 Times in 9,277 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Anyone who takes advice from EF that seriously has bigger problems than a dose of coronavirus

Particularly on a thread with 14000+ replies.

Despite taking our opinions far too seriously sometimes, none of us (afaik) are advisor to the leader of a major country on healthcare topics.
If just one person in EF takes the advice about masks being ineffective so consequently does not wear a mask and then infects a third party then that is one infection too many.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
cold, corona, coronavirus, covid, covid-19, flu, health, medical, virus




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 35 (0 members and 35 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0