Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #14441  
Old 21.10.2020, 16:56
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 2,591
Groaned at 130 Times in 97 Posts
Thanked 4,709 Times in 1,875 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
And the joke of the day (at least for where I work):
Homeoffice ist nicht nur eine Idee

Aber Berset betont auch: «Das Wichtige ist nicht, was wir Politiker beschliessen. Das interessiert das Virus nicht. Was zählt ist, was die Bevölkerung macht.» Homeoffice sei nicht nur eine schöne Idee, es sei wichtig, dass das jetzt umgesetzt werde.


Working from home is not just a nice idea, it needs to be implemented.


What is your employer's explanation that they "observe the BAG recommendation" yet still ask you to come in?

I am working from home like most others, but like in spring the office is open for those who want to come in, and there is some "soft pressure" in the sense that who comes in seems to get some extra points with the boss.
Reply With Quote
  #14442  
Old 21.10.2020, 16:57
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 2,591
Groaned at 130 Times in 97 Posts
Thanked 4,709 Times in 1,875 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
5596 in one day...

I think I'm reluctantly going to do home office for the next couple of weeks. Which I hate.
Good idea. That's why they recommend it.
Reply With Quote
  #14443  
Old 21.10.2020, 17:00
Jeep Life's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: French Part of CH
Posts: 287
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 327 Times in 162 Posts
Jeep Life is considered knowledgeableJeep Life is considered knowledgeableJeep Life is considered knowledgeable
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post

You're supposed to weigh up the evidence and take a decision accordingly. The evidence shows us that masks are having an insignificant effect on the increase in Covid infections.
And I suppose you have the increase in numbers if we were not wearing masks for the same time frame? Would you expect the numbers to be lower?

Insignificant effect or not, its a simple practice we could do to help out in this situation. Really whats so difficult about wearing one?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Jeep Life for this useful post:
  #14444  
Old 21.10.2020, 17:00
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 1,091
Groaned at 164 Times in 111 Posts
Thanked 2,920 Times in 1,062 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

WHO publishing a study they probably didn't read properly. A meta-study that measured the fatality rate and the result is a median COVID-19 fatality rate of 0.23%

Read it before they retract it

https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_....20.265892.pdf
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
  #14445  
Old 21.10.2020, 17:01
sailorimc's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Location, Location, Location
Posts: 204
Groaned at 10 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 59 Times in 30 Posts
sailorimc has no particular reputation at present
Re: Coronavirus

Strange enough, this guy, Ueli Mayrer said few days ago that we should avoid Corona Hysteria and to learn to live with the virus:
https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/bundesr...e-499294549862


Bundesrat Maurer warnt vor Corona-Hysterie

Die Schweiz müsse lernen, mit dem Virus umzugehen, ohne Leute einzusperren, sagt der Schweizer Finanzminister in einem Interview


Is it really a Hysteria?(perhaps maintained by the Mass-Media)
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank sailorimc for this useful post:
  #14446  
Old 21.10.2020, 17:01
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Wallis has taken severe action

https://www.vs.ch/de/web/communicati..._p_mode%3Dview

Gatherings max 10 ppl includes at home
Closing cinemas, fitnesses, museums etc
No visitation in hospital, senior homes etc (except in hardship cases)
Restaurants must close no later than 22.00 (max 4 a a table unless its family)
Complete closure of nightclubs
No contact sports (some exceptions)
Home schooling for higher studies such as univerities
Etc
Wouldn't be surprised to see 2 or 3 other Westen cantons following. Bet the German speaking ones still drag their heels, though.
Reply With Quote
  #14447  
Old 21.10.2020, 17:03
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Strange enough, this guy, Ueli Mayrer said few days ago that we should avoid Corona Hysteria and to learn to live with the virus...
...and as I answered at the time, he's the least of the BR. Wouldn't trust him to speak my weight even if he had the correct number written in front of him.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #14448  
Old 21.10.2020, 17:16
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
WHO publishing a study they probably didn't read properly. A meta-study that measured the fatality rate and the result is a median COVID-19 fatality rate of 0.23%

Read it before they retract it

https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_....20.265892.pdf
Dated 20 May so rather outdated.

However, the Tagi picked up on this yesterday and did a rather nice job, fully referenced to other studies, of demolishing it. Big questions have been (justifiably) raised over the Ioannidis study concerning its data selection and its assumptions. For example, one study used didn't include and care home deaths.

https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/betraeg...t-338586215692

A more recent meta study from Meyerowitz-Katz here. Average mortality 0.68%, significantly higher than flu - and he believes he is undercounting.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...01971220321809

The US CDC calculated 0.65%, Imperial College 0.66%, UK SAGE 0.5% and the University of Oxford 1.4%

The WHO's position is that they believe the rate lies in the 0.5% to 1.0% range, their working assumption is 0.6%, again probably a little understated.

Sorry, but at best that study is an outlier not in line with a large number of competing studies.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #14449  
Old 21.10.2020, 17:25
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 1,091
Groaned at 164 Times in 111 Posts
Thanked 2,920 Times in 1,062 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:

Sorry, but at best that study is an outlier not in line with a large number of competing studies.
Sorry, but you're wrong. This is a meta-study, which means it captures a number of other studies and draws a conclusion based on them. This particular one covers 61 studies, so yes, quite valid, comprehensive and adhering to the most stringent academic rules for conducting a study. The fact you don't like it is an altogether different matter, but that's not surprising

And no, not from May. Revised version in September and peer-reviewed and published 14th October.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
  #14450  
Old 21.10.2020, 17:28
Talk to you later's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,563
Groaned at 71 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 2,923 Times in 1,058 Posts
Talk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

So gyms will close in Valais? This is confirmed?
Reply With Quote
  #14451  
Old 21.10.2020, 17:51
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 4,332
Groaned at 128 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 7,258 Times in 2,761 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Sorry, but you're wrong. This is a meta-study, which means it captures a number of other studies and draws a conclusion based on them. This particular one covers 61 studies, so yes, quite valid, comprehensive and adhering to the most stringent academic rules for conducting a study. The fact you don't like it is an altogether different matter, but that's not surprising

And no, not from May. Revised version in September and peer-reviewed and published 14th October.
I posted a comment on this a couple of times.

Funny how a peer-reviewed meta-study on serological data needs to be justified further (and conveniently is barely mentioned in any media, if at all), when literally all reaction and restrictions were and are based on a non-peer-reviewed mathematical model that has proven to be massively incorrect
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Samaire13 for this useful post:
  #14452  
Old 21.10.2020, 17:53
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,589
Groaned at 305 Times in 232 Posts
Thanked 19,672 Times in 6,857 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Sorry, but you're wrong. This is a meta-study, which means it captures a number of other studies and draws a conclusion based on them. This particular one covers 61 studies, so yes, quite valid, comprehensive and adhering to the most stringent academic rules for conducting a study. The fact you don't like it is an altogether different matter, but that's not surprising

And no, not from May. Revised version in September and peer-reviewed and published 14th October.

Yes, but Baboon only needs one line in a WHO publication to discredit it
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
This user groans at k_and_e for this post:
  #14453  
Old 21.10.2020, 18:05
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Sorry, but you're wrong. This is a meta-study, which means it captures a number of other studies and draws a conclusion based on them. This particular one covers 61 studies, so yes, quite valid, comprehensive and adhering to the most stringent academic rules for conducting a study. The fact you don't like it is an altogether different matter, but that's not surprising

And no, not from May. Revised version in September and peer-reviewed and published 14th October.
I understand fully what a meta-study is. So is the Meyerowitz-Katz study I mentioned. I also understand that he took 61 studies into his analysis out of over 5,000. I understand as well that almost all the studies date from the very early phase of the pandemic when the deaths hadn't properly kicked in relative to cases (given the lag of 4 or 5 weeks from infection to death.

He's been criticised by the authors of some of the studies he uses for misrepresentating their data. He has been crticised for using incorrect bases for infections or (particularly) deaths. He's been criticised for using unrepresentative populations in his analysis.

One of the studies he used was in Indiana which showed a fatality rate of 0.26%. Except this was the one I referred to that didn't include any care home deaths - which would have at least doubled the rate.

So sorry the reality doesn't fit in with your world image but I'll go with the scientific majority.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #14454  
Old 21.10.2020, 18:08
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Yes, but Baboon only needs one line in a WHO publication to discredit it
Strange as I mentioned one meta study, 4 further studies by particularly reputable sources and no studies from the WHO.

In fact, if you check back it was garburko that mentioned a WHO published study, not me.
Reply With Quote
  #14455  
Old 21.10.2020, 18:16
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
....when literally all reaction and restrictions were and are based on a non-peer-reviewed mathematical model that has proven to be massively incorrect
Still persisting with that lie are you?
Reply With Quote
  #14456  
Old 21.10.2020, 18:26
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,260
Groaned at 373 Times in 313 Posts
Thanked 14,388 Times in 6,670 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
What is your employer's explanation that they "observe the BAG recommendation" yet still ask you to come in?

As it is a recommendation only. Earlier this year it was made clear that for people in a risk group working from home has to be made available but that is not in the recommendation either.



Funnily enough working from home is allowed for most of the admin staff in the production sites, just not at head office.....
Reply With Quote
  #14457  
Old 21.10.2020, 18:28
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: LaCote
Posts: 1,312
Groaned at 9 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 2,352 Times in 896 Posts
Sigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
So gyms will close in Valais? This is confirmed?
Yes, starting thursday according to the cantonal website.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Sigh for this useful post:
  #14458  
Old 21.10.2020, 18:30
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 5,022
Groaned at 281 Times in 201 Posts
Thanked 10,562 Times in 3,962 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
next step is to burn books? or deniers?
Look up the ways social media is and has been used to recruit and organize terrorists and THEN try telling us that censorship on social media isn't necessary.
Reply With Quote
  #14459  
Old 21.10.2020, 18:32
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,430
Groaned at 527 Times in 444 Posts
Thanked 20,459 Times in 10,758 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Reputable social media platforms delete posts that deny the effectiveness of masks without evidence.
Quote:
View Post
next step is to burn books? or deniers?
The keyword here is evidence.

Of course, you are empowered to support the people posting false information without evidence or even to post such yourself.
Reply With Quote
  #14460  
Old 21.10.2020, 18:40
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 2,591
Groaned at 130 Times in 97 Posts
Thanked 4,709 Times in 1,875 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
As it is a recommendation only. Earlier this year it was made clear that for people in a risk group working from home has to be made available but that is not in the recommendation either.



Funnily enough working from home is allowed for most of the admin staff in the production sites, just not at head office.....
We had a discussion on this earlier here, but I had thought including the employers' duty to "observe the recommendations of BAG" into the Covid law would de facto make this a obligation.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
cold, corona, coronavirus, covid, covid-19, flu, health, medical, virus




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 7 (3 members and 4 guests)
hellacopters, Island Monkey
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coronavirus Jokes makeabigwish Daily life 275 29.11.2021 21:34
Coronavirus closed janvier Forum support 18 01.11.2020 14:12
Paid holidays and coronavirus Curtiss Employment 2 20.04.2020 10:22
Coronavirus scammers are out there - be warned Medea Fleecestealer Daily life 9 18.04.2020 19:53
Leaving Switzerland for UK during coronavirus barkingtreewolf Leaving Switzerland 19 11.04.2020 12:45


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:19.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0