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  #14461  
Old 21.10.2020, 19:25
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For those who say "the numbers are still going up despite the wearing of masks" - do you ever stop to realize just how high the numbers would be without them?
in Sweden no compulsory masks, but numbers still lower then in CH

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IDEAS COVID-19
this just an idea

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WHO publishing a study they probably didn't read properly. A meta-study that measured the fatality rate and the result is a median COVID-19 fatality rate of 0.23%

Read it before they retract it

https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_....20.265892.pdf
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Look up the ways social media is and has been used to recruit and organize terrorists and THEN try telling us that censorship on social media isn't necessary.
dunno. my only social medias are twitter & linkedin. ah and EF
but I remember worls w/o them: newspapers "Pravda", "Izvestia", "Trud" etc woth only one correct POV

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Of course, you are empowered to support the people posting false information without evidence or even to post such yourself.
and who is deciding - is it false information or not? you?

Last edited by 22 yards; 21.10.2020 at 22:30. Reason: Please use multi-quote.
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  #14462  
Old 21.10.2020, 20:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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I understand fully what a meta-study is.
I don't think you do actually.

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Sorry, but at best that study is an outlier not in line with a large number of competing studies.
More importantly, you chose a very selective response as you dismissed it without even reading it as you assumed it's old. Let me remind you again of the other mistake you did

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Dated 20 May so rather outdated.
As I already pointed out, this was revised and updated in Sept, peer-reviewed and published in Oct. something that is in the beginning of page 1 or one more sign you didn't read it at all

In a nutshell, various data points, quite a few peer-reviewed and reliable ones pointing to the fact that the mortality is lower than this alarmist thread suggests. It's also quite entertaining to watch people trusting the WHO when they publish alarmism, but dismiss them when the publish something more sober.

Now, off I go, please keep on!
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  #14463  
Old 21.10.2020, 20:40
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Good. You can read it to your elder relatives when they get sick.

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It's also quite entertaining to watch people trusting the WHO when they publish alarmism, but dismiss them when the publish something more sober.
And vice versa.

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in Sweden no compulsory masks, but numbers still lower then in CH
Not long ago you could have said "In Switzerland no compulsory masks, but numbers still lower than in Spain".

Last edited by 22 yards; 21.10.2020 at 22:31. Reason: Please use multi-quote.
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  #14464  
Old 21.10.2020, 20:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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Not long ago you could have said "In Switzerland no compulsory masks, but numbers still lower then in Spain".

True. Let's learn from east Asia and wear a mask.
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  #14465  
Old 21.10.2020, 20:53
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Re: Coronavirus

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True. Let's learn from east Asia and wear a mask.
Hm. That's not really what I meant. I just think these snapshot pictures at a random point in a 18-24 month pandemic are total nonsense.
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  #14466  
Old 21.10.2020, 20:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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in Sweden no compulsory masks, but numbers still lower then in CH

Not sure which stats you're looking at but Sweden has over double the deaths per million population (581.55) than Switzerland (251.86) so I wouldn't necessarily use them as a great non-mask reference. They're also now considering lockdowns so only time will tell if their decisions early on will work out in the end.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/


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  #14467  
Old 21.10.2020, 21:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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Not sure which stats you're looking at but Sweden has over double the deaths per million population (581.55) than Switzerland (251.86) so I wouldn't necessarily use them as a great non-mask reference. They're also now considering lockdowns so only time will tell if their decisions early on will work out in the end.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/


(groan) again and again and again
look at graph, not absolute numbers
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  #14468  
Old 21.10.2020, 21:11
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Re: Coronavirus

Covid 19 can do one. That is all.
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  #14469  
Old 21.10.2020, 21:19
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Re: Coronavirus

To all the anti-maskers here...

Just out of curiosity, if you were standing quite close to someone on a train or in the grocery store who had COVID but didn't know it, and they sneezed or coughed, would you rather that they were wearing a mask or none?
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  #14470  
Old 21.10.2020, 21:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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in Sweden no compulsory masks, but numbers still lower then in CH
Really

Sweden deaths 5,929, Death rate per 1M population 586
Switzerland deaths 2, 029, Death rate per 1M population 234

Maybe you have a different definition of lower?
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  #14471  
Old 21.10.2020, 21:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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and who is deciding - is it false information or not? you?
No, they decide themselves when they offer no supporting evidence.
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  #14472  
Old 21.10.2020, 21:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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in Sweden no compulsory masks, but numbers still lower then in CH
Last I checked masks were only compulsory here since Monday so won't have had the slightest influence on the figures yet.
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  #14473  
Old 21.10.2020, 21:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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To all the anti-maskers here...

Just out of curiosity, if you were standing quite close to someone on a train or in the grocery store who had COVID but didn't know it, and they sneezed or coughed, would you rather that they were wearing a mask or none?
I know a few if you, you included, like to have a simple grouping of "covid deniers" to make your argumentation easier, but I am firmly in the pro-mask group to the extent that I ask people in the tram to cover their noses. Following government advice and basic common sense has nothing to do with dismissing alarmism and reacting soberly and analytically in a constantly evolving situation.
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  #14474  
Old 21.10.2020, 21:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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(groan) again and again and again
look at graph, not absolute numbers
According to the graph, the number of new COVID-19 cases in Sweden is doubling around every ten days; is that good?
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  #14475  
Old 21.10.2020, 21:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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I don't think you do actually.
Again, I know exactly what a meta study is and that was a seriously flawed one.

And I am certainly not alone in thinking that. If even the authors of individual studies included in the meta study are highly critical of the use to which their work is being put then surely you have to question the results.

Or probably not in your case sadly.
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  #14476  
Old 21.10.2020, 21:53
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Re: Coronavirus

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I posted a comment on this a couple of times.

Funny how a peer-reviewed meta-study on serological data needs to be justified further (and conveniently is barely mentioned in any media, if at all), when literally all reaction and restrictions were and are based on a non-peer-reviewed mathematical model that has proven to be massively incorrect
Just to expand on my earlier comment (was in a hurry), I presume you are referring to the Edinburgh study on the Imperial forecasts? Just to remind you, the Edinburgh study concluded the Imperial forecasts were CORRECT.
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  #14477  
Old 21.10.2020, 22:03
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Really

Sweden deaths 5,929, Death rate per 1M population 586
Switzerland deaths 2, 029, Death rate per 1M population 234

Maybe you have a different definition of lower?
you really dont understand what I'm talking about?

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No, they decide themselves when they offer no supporting evidence.
especially when "your evidence are not evidence for me"

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Last I checked masks were only compulsory here since Monday so won't have had the slightest influence on the figures yet.
last time I checked in Zurich, mask required in shops for...2 month may be?

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According to the graph, the number of new COVID-19 cases in Sweden is doubling around every ten days; is that good?
no, its not good at all, but daily cases/deaths much lower then in CH now

Last edited by roegner; 21.10.2020 at 22:27. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
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  #14478  
Old 21.10.2020, 22:09
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Re: Coronavirus

Four Newborns in Adelaide have died after being denied lifesaving heart surgery because it wasn't available in Adelaide, and they couldn't be transferred interstate because of travel restrictions.

Luckily they escaped catching coronavirus!
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  #14479  
Old 21.10.2020, 22:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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last time I checked in Zurich, mask required in shops for...2 month may be?
Zurich since early Sept, Geneva since late July.

Other countries like Spain since before the summer afaik.
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  #14480  
Old 21.10.2020, 22:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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As I already pointed out, this was revised and updated in Sept, peer-reviewed and published in Oct. something that is in the beginning of page 1 or one more sign you didn't read it at all
From page 20 to 24, the author listed the data sources he used for the calculations. You can see that the seroprevalence studies are mainly from April, May.


I'm not very convinced by the way the author calculated the fatality. He said "I chose the number of deaths accumulated until the data 1 week after the midpoint of the study period". So for the death rate, the numerator is the number of death cases within 1 week after the midpoint of the study period, while the denominator is the number of infected cases accumulated over a much longer time. It sounds strange to me, but if the paper was accepted by experts, I might have misunderstood the methodology.

Last edited by Limestone; 21.10.2020 at 23:15.
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