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  #14481  
Old 21.10.2020, 22:58
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Re: Coronavirus

I am watching Infrarouge live on rts and la suisse is definitely not waiting for anything but adapting fast. Excellent program (fr): https://www.rts.ch/emissions/infrarouge/
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  #14482  
Old 21.10.2020, 23:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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I know a few if you, you included, like to have a simple grouping of "covid deniers" to make your argumentation easier, but I am firmly in the pro-mask group to the extent that I ask people in the tram to cover their noses. Following government advice and basic common sense has nothing to do with dismissing alarmism and reacting soberly and analytically in a constantly evolving situation.
My comment didn't group "covid deniers" into one category. In fact, I had specifically addressed my comment to "anti-maskers."
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  #14483  
Old 21.10.2020, 23:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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Where exactly is this evidence that you speak of -- that shows that masks are having an insignificant effect on the increase in COVID infections? The only way to test that theory is for everyone to go mask-less and then compare infection rates. Are you seriously not capable of understanding that infection rates might be increasing due to other factors?
I've given you enough of it, you've just choose to ignore it preferring to post scare stories instead. It's OK, I'm not going to convince you. History will prove masks to have been a complete waste of time.

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Just saw this on bbc.com. Maybe of interest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulJS...ature=youtu.be
I just saw this on the BBC, far better imho

https://twitter.com/BBCLookNorth/sta...37308297596928

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And I suppose you have the increase in numbers if we were not wearing masks for the same time frame? Would you expect the numbers to be lower?
Tbh I would expect no difference in the number of cases. We have countries and regions where masks are not being used to make comparisons to and there is no correlation between mask mandates and covid cases. Just as there was no correlation between the severity of lockdowns imposed and the number of deaths.
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  #14484  
Old 21.10.2020, 23:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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Four Newborns in Adelaide have died after being denied lifesaving heart surgery because it wasn't available in Adelaide, and they couldn't be transferred interstate because of travel restrictions.

Luckily they escaped catching coronavirus!
Times like this are for breaking the rules and thinking of the consequences later.
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  #14485  
Old 21.10.2020, 23:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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Times like this are for breaking the rules and thinking of the consequences later.
I agree. The Swiss have managed to move patients around between cantons. Some hospitals have taken patients from other countries. And that's patients with Covid!

Surely a newborn can be tested, the mother can be tested, and all the doctors and nurses caring for both are regularly tested. There's got to be some common sense in applying rules.

The hospital's management also needs to take a look at the cost-cutting measures that led to the hospital not having the necessary equipment to properly care for newborns.
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Old 21.10.2020, 23:53
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Re: Coronavirus

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I've given you enough of it, you've just choose to ignore it preferring to post scare stories instead. It's OK, I'm not going to convince you. History will prove masks to have been a complete waste of time.
And yet you have repeatedly chosen to ignore all the evidence that masks are effective.

You also equate truth with "scare stories," apparently.

But, right. We should just ignore the overwhelming majority of scientists and health experts and listen to you instead.

If masks are such a "waste of time," then why do doctors wear them in hospitals to protect their patients from viruses? I think it's pretty clear what is wasting time here.
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  #14487  
Old 22.10.2020, 00:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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And yet you have repeatedly chosen to ignore all the evidence that masks are effective.

You also equate truth with "scare stories," apparently.

But, right. We should just ignore the overwhelming majority of scientists and health experts and listen to you instead.

If masks are such a "waste of time," then why do doctors wear them in hospitals to protect their patients from viruses? I think it's pretty clear what is wasting time here.

i think you misunderstand him. when he says that history will prove masks are useless it's because he's from the future.
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  #14488  
Old 22.10.2020, 00:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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History will prove masks to have been a complete waste of time.
The beauty of measures like wearing face masks or desinfecting your hands, is that they are low cost and low effort measures, and therefore hardly a waste of time.
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  #14489  
Old 22.10.2020, 01:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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I've given you enough of it, you've just choose to ignore it preferring to post scare stories instead. It's OK, I'm not going to convince you. History will prove masks to have been a complete waste of time.
You have provided zero evidence, just opinions.
Your failure to provide links to your so-called evidence is in itself evidence.

Claiming you have provided enough evidence when you have provided no evidence is simply obfuscation.
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  #14490  
Old 22.10.2020, 02:06
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Re: Coronavirus

They logically must have some effectiveness, but looking at the cases in mask skeptical areas vs more mask friendly areas both here and in the US doesn't fill you with confidence that the effect is particularly large.

I would rather not catch this disease and I'm certainly not relying on one to protect me. Social distancing over masks all day long. No more public transport for the next few weeks. In shops I have always worn one and will continue to do so.
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Old 22.10.2020, 02:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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They logically must have some effectiveness, but looking at the cases in mask skeptical areas vs more mask friendly areas both here and in the US doesn't fill you with confidence that the effect is particularly large.

I would rather not catch this disease and I'm certainly not relying on one to protect me. Social distancing over masks all day long. No more public transport for the next few weeks. In shops I have always worn one and will continue to do so.
Please provide some numerical detail about the cases in mask skeptical areas vs more mask friendly areas.
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  #14492  
Old 22.10.2020, 07:48
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Re: Coronavirus

Working with over 50 teenagers and adults closely on a daily basis, I am convinced the only reason why I haven't contracted the virus so far is specifically due to social distancing and masks.

Science has yet to prove my theory otherwise.
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  #14493  
Old 22.10.2020, 09:09
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Re: Coronavirus

The simple reason for the threatened lockdown (in case anyone was in doubt) - unless the current trend is broken, Switzerland will run out of intensive care beds mid November.

https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/wissens...n-110240408709
(requires registration)
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Old 22.10.2020, 09:24
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Re: Coronavirus

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Working with over 50 teenagers and adults closely on a daily basis, I am convinced the only reason why I haven't contracted the virus so far is specifically due to social distancing and masks.

Science has yet to prove my theory otherwise.
Blood groups make a huge difference, are you O+ by any chance, pretty sure you are not A+
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  #14495  
Old 22.10.2020, 09:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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Blood groups make a huge difference, are you O+ by any chance, pretty sure you are not A+
No they don't. Your chance of getting it is the same whatever the group.

The chance of complications, however, is a little greater if you are group A.
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Old 22.10.2020, 09:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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I know a few if you, you included, like to have a simple grouping of "covid deniers" to make your argumentation easier, but I am firmly in the pro-mask group to the extent that I ask people in the tram to cover their noses. Following government advice and basic common sense has nothing to do with dismissing alarmism and reacting soberly and analytically in a constantly evolving situation.
So then I'm not so sure why you started a personal vendetta here, we all try to understand the situation and adjust our info as the time goes by.
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Old 22.10.2020, 09:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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And yet you have repeatedly chosen to ignore all the evidence that masks are effective.

You also equate truth with "scare stories," apparently.

But, right. We should just ignore the overwhelming majority of scientists and health experts and listen to you instead.

If masks are such a "waste of time," then why do doctors wear them in hospitals to protect their patients from viruses? I think it's pretty clear what is wasting time here.
This is such a fallacious argument that it just displays your complete and utter misunderstanding for how viruses are transmitted! Masks DON'T prevent viral transmission, and surgeons DON'T wear masks to protect their patients from viruses. If a surgeon was sick with a virus, they simply WOULDN'T perform surgery as they know a mask would not protect their patient!

Surgeons work in sterile surgical environments where tight fitting anti-bacterial surgical masks are used which are mainly designed to prevent infective particles falling onto the patient, NOT VIRUSES! The masks are not touched, worn for short periods of time and at the first sign of excessive build up of moisture they're exchanged. They are never reused. My brother-in-law is a surgeon (who is also against mandatory masks), and has said to me that the example of masks worn in hospitals to justify them being worn in the general public is simply groundless.

Tight fitting surgical masks that are worn in a disciplined way in a sterile environment, that are never touched by the wearer bare absolutely no comparison to loose, damp, often handled and reworn cloth masks that people wear on the train. None whatsoever!
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Old 22.10.2020, 09:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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No they don't. Your chance of getting it is the same whatever the group.

The chance of complications, however, is a little greater if you are group A.
This paper disagrees https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....31.20114991v1
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Old 22.10.2020, 09:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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The beauty of measures like wearing face masks or desinfecting your hands, is that they are low cost and low effort measures, and therefore hardly a waste of time.
The difference being that washing hands is undeniably low cost AND WORKS, whilst face masks is of unknown cost, unknown impact, and very likely doesn't work.
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Old 22.10.2020, 09:59
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Re: Coronavirus

No. That paper says exactly what I said. The risk of respiratory failure is greater for A positive individuals. Not the chance of getting SARS-Cov-2 at all.

Edit. For anyone wondering, apparently group A individuals have a roughly 5% greater chance of blood clotting issues than group B. That includes strokes and Covid complications.
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