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  #14541  
Old 22.10.2020, 14:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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Like studies have shown, masks reduce infections maybe by 20-30%. One component of many to make this work. So agree.

Your thoughts about party preferences though are still beyond me. What is currently happening in Schwyz suggests that voting for SVP does not exactly make you immune
I am interested to read these studies, please provide a link.
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  #14542  
Old 22.10.2020, 14:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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Reducing the viral load does have an effect. If the viral load is lower, the infection is less severe.

They are actually about to begin a trial in the UK, deliberately infecting volunteers with C19 of varying viral loads to determine the minimum required to sustain an infection.
Sorry I wasn't clear. I agree with you entirely. Rather I was saying that if reducing the viral load is something that happens (which I agree happens) then logically some infections must be altogether prevented.
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  #14543  
Old 22.10.2020, 14:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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That wouldn't really make sense. If the viral load is reduced that should prevent some infections - as you need a viral load to get infected. Masks should have an effect.
Babysitter = White blood cells
Kids= Corona Virus
Kindergarten= Human body
Kindergarten entrance door= Mask


If only 5 kids enter through the front door (the door was not 100% effective). That means they are in the kindergarten already (the body is already infected).

As the numbers of kids who managed to enter the kindergarten is low, the Babysitters can better deal with the chaos the kids are planning to cause. There will be some level of chaos but things will return to order soon. Unless your kindergarten has bad layout.

Now imagine 100 kids came through the front door, the babysitter will struggle and lose control or take ages to bring the kids under control. There will be poo all over the walls. I hope you understood my point about viral load and why I continue to wear mask
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  #14544  
Old 22.10.2020, 14:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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Do you? Well, there's a surprise. I suppose you have some special knowledge of this that you're not prepared to share with us?
Nope, observing what's going on around us. A real RCT study will be available eventually.

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Masks should logically have some effect if they reduce transmission of droplets. It shouldn't be zero. As FMF says 20-30% is a number that intuitively makes sense and is consistent with the data.
In a lab, under controlled conditions a small benefit has been observed. Whether this translates into real world situations however is something else entirely.

This study released out of Japan tickled me. It demonstrates that masks help block the coronavirus... if you live in Pancakes' hypothetical world where people are coughing into each others faces from two feet away!

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-h...-idUKKBN2770DF
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  #14545  
Old 22.10.2020, 14:45
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Re: Coronavirus

Tony your link kind of shows the merit of wearing masks from viral load point of view.


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A cotton mask reduced viral uptake by the receiver head by up to 40% compared to no mask. An N95 mask, used by medical professionals, blocked up to 90%. However, even when the N95 was fitted to the face with tape, some virus particles still sneaked in.
When a mask was attached to the coughing head, cotton and surgical masks blocked more than 50% of the virus transmission.
“There was a synergistic effect when both the virus receiver and virus spreader wore masks,” the researchers wrote in a study published on Wednesday.
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  #14546  
Old 22.10.2020, 14:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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This study released out of Japan tickled me. It demonstrates that masks help block the coronavirus... if you live in Pancakes' hypothetical world where people are coughing into each others faces from two feet away!
Sounds like a perfectly reasonable way to test it to me. If it works in extremis it is likely to have a decent effect in standard conditions.

Oh and the example isn't so hypothetical for anyone that uses public transport.
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  #14547  
Old 22.10.2020, 14:52
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Re: Coronavirus

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Sounds like a perfectly reasonable way to test it to me. If it works in extremis it is likely to have a decent effect in standard conditions.

Oh and the example isn't so hypothetical for anyone that uses public transport.
If we shift the focus from masks to public transport, I'd expect schools to shut and shift most work to home office.

So far, none of this looks planned. VD will find out on Friday, I think.
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  #14548  
Old 22.10.2020, 15:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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Tony your link kind of shows the merit of wearing masks from viral load point of view.
You should know by now that Tony doesn't read the material he posts or links to. He's more of a headline kinda guy.
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  #14549  
Old 22.10.2020, 15:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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If we shift the focus from masks to public transport, I'd expect schools to shut and shift most work to home office.

So far, none of this looks planned. VD will find out on Friday, I think.
If the new case rate continues to double every 10 or 14 days, or whatever it is, that's the way we're headed. Unless you'd like Valais-style restrictions (gatherings of no more than six people,mask or no mask) for the foreseeable future, which would make most forms of the arts unviable and severely impact many commercial activities.
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  #14550  
Old 22.10.2020, 15:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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in Pancakes' hypothetical world
is this the same world where aerosols doesnt contains droplets?
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  #14551  
Old 22.10.2020, 15:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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That's is a percentage I can believe, very different to the rantings on FB that we will all die if we don't wear a mask
No one has said that anywhere here.

But you clearly have a knack for exaggerating and misinterpreting things and then rephrasing them to stroke your cognitive bias.
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  #14552  
Old 22.10.2020, 15:34
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Re: Coronavirus

"There has been a growing consensus among health experts that the COVID-19 virus can be spread through the air. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) revised its guidance this month to say the pathogen can linger in the air for hours."

Now that is worrying!
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  #14553  
Old 22.10.2020, 15:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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Are you sure?

10 least-white states in USA (2010):
Mississippi (republican)
Florida (republican)
Arizona (republican)
Georgia (republican)
Maryland (democratic)
Nevada (democratic)
Texas (republican)
New Mexico (democratic)
California (democratic)
Hawaii (democratic)

I make that 5-5. On the other hand, the two whitest states are both democratic.

Of the states with a lot of deaths in the north east, two are quite diverse (NJ and NY), two are not particularly diverse (MA and CA).

The biggest problem with your statement, is that I think you have cause and effect the wrong way around. Surely BAME people are much more likely to have bad outcomes because they live in big cities (and have jobs and possibly housing that do not permit for good social distancing), not that big cities fair badly because they have BAME people living in them.
10 least-white states in USA (2010): death rate
Mississippi (republican), 1083
Florida (republican), 755
Arizona (republican), 804
Georgia (republican), 726
Maryland (democratic), 671
Nevada (democratic), 562
Texas (republican), 613
New Mexico (democratic), 453
California (democratic), 435
Hawaii (democratic), 143

The four highest death rates are in Republican states, according to your theory the "non-mask wearing"
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  #14554  
Old 22.10.2020, 15:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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... if you live in Pancakes' hypothetical world where people are coughing into each others faces from two feet away!
Interesting... I just came on here and was going to post about how I was in Coop earlier today for about 15 minutes and at two separate times, two people who were walking very close to me coughed (the kind of cough where it sounds like they have a cold), and I found myself feeling thankful that they were wearing masks.

And then I saw your ridiculous comment.
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  #14555  
Old 22.10.2020, 15:54
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Re: Coronavirus

what's the difference between a mini-lockdown and a "slowdown"? We may have another 35'000 infections by the time they make a solid decision.....just to "give the Kantons a chance"....
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  #14556  
Old 22.10.2020, 15:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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I am interested to read these studies, please provide a link.
https://voxeu.org/article/face-mask-...ovid-19-canada

There was another, similar thing I read, but don't remember the title.

Actually, there is a reference to similar studies in the article:

"Our results for Canada are consistent with two other recent observational studies on the effects of mask mandates. Chernozhukov et al. (2020) use differences in the timing of mask mandates for employees in public-facing businesses across US states and find that these mandates are associated with a reduction of 9–10 percentage points in the weekly growth rate of COVID-19 cases. Our estimates are larger, partly because we analyse universal mandatory mask wearing. Similarly, Mitze et al. (2020) study the city of Jena and regions in Germany that adopted mask mandates before the rest of the country and estimate that requiring the public to wear face masks reduced the daily growth rate of COVID-19 cases by about 40%."
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  #14557  
Old 22.10.2020, 15:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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The power of voter repression
Ten year old statistics, let us see how many states are still Republican next month
Indeedy! If it's a repeat of what happened 4 yrs. ago I might have to put water-proof knickers on.

Last edited by spalebärg; 22.10.2020 at 16:21.
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Old 22.10.2020, 16:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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Reducing the viral load does have an effect. If the viral load is lower, the infection is less severe.

They are actually about to begin a trial in the UK, deliberately infecting volunteers with C19 of varying viral loads to determine the minimum required to sustain an infection.
I'm no expert but this does seem logical to me. The lower the quantity of active viruses entering the system the greater the chance that one's own immune system is capable of coping (and possibly building some sort of immunity against the disease for the future).
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  #14559  
Old 22.10.2020, 16:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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what's the difference between a mini-lockdown and a "slowdown"? We may have another 35'000 infections by the time they make a solid decision.....just to "give the Kantons a chance"....
That's exactly what I logged in to wonder aloud - was following along on Corona English's twitter, and he tweeted this:

"English Coronavirus updates for Switzerland @CoronaEnglish·26m

Journalist asks Berset why the late deadline for eventual new national measures is Wednesday.
Berset: «There is a law that requires us to await the cantons to prepare and act». #CoronaInfoCH"

Does anyone know anything about this law? The whole press conference sounded like they were preparing us for a lockdown announcement at any moment.

Thanks,
Katerina
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  #14560  
Old 22.10.2020, 16:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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what's the difference between a mini-lockdown and a "slowdown"? We may have another 35'000 infections by the time they make a solid decision.....just to "give the Kantons a chance"....
Mini-lockdown I think is 1wk-2wks all stops to blow the virus's fuse for a min. Slowdown is everyone on homeoffice, staying out of streets but schools still on, and social events minimized but still on, bars and restos on but kerfew. That's how I understand the difference now between CZ and CH. CZ only haulted after some 5 days of 8000-12000 cases per day. CH is not there yet. Cantons need to brainstorm, too, but they can react independently (as Valais just did). VD is expected to inform us on Friday.
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