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  #14601  
Old 22.10.2020, 20:36
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Re: Coronavirus

Good podcast today again with Osterholm. Not a pretty picture.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/podcasts-webinars (or Spotify)
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  #14602  
Old 22.10.2020, 20:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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Swiss people now seem to be taking it seriously. At least half the people I saw while walking the dogs today were wearing masks.
Back in the Spring, I saw some people wearing masks outdoors but usually, they were single people nothing like today.
Very seriously. I've got one class in temporary lockdown now due to the amount of students tested positive or are in quarantine. More teachers are considering using Teams Video conferencing as they teach in class for those students at home.

Even the President of the Wetterfrosch club in Muotathal has the virus. Scheisse has hit the fan.
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  #14603  
Old 22.10.2020, 20:52
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Re: Coronavirus

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Incidentally, CDC has published an interesting study that will see them revise 'close contact' recommendations

Essentially a 20 year old correctional officer had an accumulated 'close contact' with 6 new inmates who were asymptomatic over an 8 hr shift totalling 17 minutes. The inmates were quarantined (Mostly masked in the close contacts) until the results of their tests and the officer was always masked (cloth microfiber mask - effectively what you see most people wearing currently), gowned & almost always gloved while never approaching closer than 6 ft. and never more than a minute of interaction at any time (22 interactions in total, totalling 17 minutes - verified by video surveillance). All 7 tested positive

Officer had not been out of the area or exposed to anyone positive for 2 weeks preceding exposure

What it means ultimately is that close contact will need to be redefined but also that these surgical masks are far from ideal
According to the study, the officer regularly returned home after his eight hour shifts and had contact with people so the conclusions are not watertight. They should have DNA'd the viruses in the infected people to confirm the infection chain.
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  #14604  
Old 22.10.2020, 20:52
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Re: Coronavirus

It depends on the type of mask you wear. If it is a material mask, then chances are it isn't protecting you, it's simply protecting others from you.

The same is true for surgical masks, the paper ones that you see many people wearing.

They essentially limit the amount of pathogen that can get into the air and more importantly on to surfaces.

The masks that protect you have a number on them N95, masks that need to form a seal on your face. Masks that filter particles. Unlike the other two, they aren't really reusable either.

Of course even with an N95, you need to be careful how you take it off and how you put it on. You need to wash your hands frequently too, and as much possible avoid touching any common surfaces. So door handles, touch screens, buttons, pens, locks on public toilets, even train or bus seats. etc. etc. Should have mentioned too of course the greater the distance between you and everybody else, the less lightly covid-19 will be able to pass between you.

It important to understand that covid-19 can live on surfaces for anything up to 30 days in perfect conditions, and that a lot of cases you read about are not being transmitted thru the air at all, but caught off the surface of something.

I think I mentioned before, the Far East are doing better than the west on this because they all wear masks, watch the news and you'll note few if any are Walking around without a mask in asian cities. In western world were all stupid beyond belief on this arguing about our freedom and demonstrating like small children. Like the idiot Swiss statesman [who had similar views to the nazi's really], saying we need to live with covid-19 and let the disabled, sick, old and weak die.

Last edited by markalex; 22.10.2020 at 21:11.
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  #14605  
Old 22.10.2020, 21:06
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Re: Coronavirus

I've seen plenty of the blue surgical disposables on people in Basel that have obviously been used umpteen times as they're all dog eared and grubby. And what's with people just taking them off and chucking them on the ground when there are bins all over the place? It's disgusting.

I bought some very funky patterned disposables from momask.ch last week, 50chf for a box of 50 but they don't chafe and are a great fit, esp under the chin. They also don't make my OH's glasses steam up
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  #14606  
Old 22.10.2020, 21:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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According to the study, the officer regularly returned home after his eight hour shifts and had contact with people so the conclusions are not watertight. They should have DNA'd the viruses in the infected people to confirm the infection chain.
He was positive 7 days after exposure to the 6 inmates who tested positive - the officer cited only two outside contacts from work in those 7 days (Neither of whom have been positive). It is of course not conclusive as it does not eliminate any possible vector (20 cases in 100k in his area).


Among 7 officers who met previous criteria for 'close contact' with the 6 inmates which is a block of 15 minutes, 1 tested positive. Among 13 officers who did not meet the previous criteria for close contact (Including the officer in question), only the officer described tested positive - it's also the reason why the officer in question was never isolated or tested sooner because he didn't meet previous guidelines for close contact. The CDC concluded the exposure stemmed from within the prison
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  #14607  
Old 22.10.2020, 21:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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I doubt in reality it's even that high. We are still yet to see randomised controlled trial proving that they work amongst the general population. Apparently there's a study like this being carried out in Denmark (no mandatory masks) and the results should be due out soon.
It appears that this study has actually been completed! Allegedly the results (not the method) have meant that journals have not yet published it (now where have we heard that before ).

This was the leading story in a Danish newspaper Berlingske (see below).

https://www.berlingske.dk/videnskab/...p-tidsskrifter

I expect that most people don't have subscription to this newspaper nor speak Danish, so I've googled about. RT have got a version of the story though however as I imagine that isn't an acceptable publication to the high standards held on this forum I've posted another couple of links below.

https://www.rt.com/news/504219-danis...d-coronavirus/
https://nord.news/2020/10/21/danish-...ical-journals/
https://twitter.com/MaMoMVPY/status/1319002978146263040
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  #14608  
Old 22.10.2020, 21:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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...
The final part of you anecdote is missing... "and everyone cheered!"

Remarkable this happened twice to you in your 15 minute trip in Coop and it hasn't happened to me once in 7 months! Some people are just unlucky I guess
I have no idea what you mean by "and everyone cheered," but making sense isn't really your specialty, is it?
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  #14609  
Old 22.10.2020, 21:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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Swiss people now seem to be taking it seriously. At least half the people I saw while walking the dogs today were wearing masks.
Back in the Spring, I saw some people wearing masks outdoors but usually, they were single people nothing like today.
I've been noticing the same... People seem to be more cautious about social distancing again in stores now and there are more social distancing markings on the floors, etc. Today I saw an elderly woman walking into the store wearing a mask and huge, yellow goggles. I gave her a warm 'smile' with my eyes as I walked past and my heart sank a bit, just knowing how scared so many elderly people must be right now.

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Very seriously. I've got one class in temporary lockdown now due to the amount of students tested positive or are in quarantine. More teachers are considering using Teams Video conferencing as they teach in class for those students at home.

Even the President of the Wetterfrosch club in Muotathal has the virus. Scheisse has hit the fan.
Yikes. I was just thinking the other day "I wonder how long until we start hearing about outbreaks at schools here." I hope that you're okay!
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  #14610  
Old 22.10.2020, 22:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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I've been noticing the same... People seem to be more cautious about social distancing again in stores now and there are more social distancing markings on the floors, etc. Today I saw an elderly woman walking into the store wearing a mask and huge, yellow goggles. I gave her a warm 'smile' with my eyes as I walked past and my heart sank a bit, just knowing how scared so many elderly people must be right now.



Yikes. I was just thinking the other day "I wonder how long until we start hearing about outbreaks at schools here." I hope that you're okay!
I have the opposite experience.

People seems to think that wearing a mask means that they dont have to distance, especially waiting in line at the cashier.
A couple of weeks ago we had to wait in line at our post, now its back to taking a number and cramping together in the limited space (no way to see outside which number is up). Aldi used to have a light - green for ok to enter, red - wait until someone exits, that has been removed.
Floormarkings starting to peel off on floors are not beeing replaced. Our local Denner used to have a max 21 ppl rule now its 53 ( not a big shop). I do wonder.....
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  #14611  
Old 22.10.2020, 22:17
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Re: Coronavirus

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It appears that this study has actually been completed! Allegedly the results (not the method) have meant that journals have not yet published it (now where have we heard that before ).

This was the leading story in a Danish newspaper Berlingske (see below).

https://www.berlingske.dk/videnskab/...p-tidsskrifter

I expect that most people don't have subscription to this newspaper nor speak Danish, so I've googled about. RT have got a version of the story though however as I imagine that isn't an acceptable publication to the high standards held on this forum I've posted another couple of links below.

https://www.rt.com/news/504219-danis...d-coronavirus/
https://nord.news/2020/10/21/danish-...ical-journals/
https://twitter.com/MaMoMVPY/status/1319002978146263040
Christian Torp-Pedersen, professor and chief physician at the research department at North Zealand Hospital, tells Berlingske that the three journals said no.

He does not wish to disclose the reasons given by the journals.

LOL! What a non-story.

So why are the study results not on the preprint server, it was completed midyear?
The method is published.
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  #14612  
Old 22.10.2020, 23:00
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Re: Coronavirus

Lausanne Marathon 2020 cancelled this wknd.
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  #14613  
Old 22.10.2020, 23:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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... and very likely doesn't work.
sounds like youre starting to hedge a bit!
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  #14614  
Old 23.10.2020, 07:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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What it means ultimately is that close contact will need to be redefined but also that these surgical masks are far from ideal
Has now happened - CDC have redefined close contact as 15 minutes cumulative contact in a 24 hour period rather than 15 minutes continuous.

No-one has ever claimed masks are 100%. If you check back to the sane posts on here you will see the risk is reduced by something like 20% to 30%. Perfectly possible - actually likely - for a single individual to still get infected in such a circumstance. But across a large population you will get 20% to 30% less transmission overall which will have a significant dampening effect of virus spread.
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  #14615  
Old 23.10.2020, 07:29
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Re: Coronavirus

So wearing a mask in the car when you are the only occupant of said car..

Does that keep you safe or is that for the pedestrians around you?


Asking for the hundreds of masked drivers i see daily
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  #14616  
Old 23.10.2020, 08:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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I have no idea what you mean by "and everyone cheered," but making sense isn't really your specialty, is it?
Basically that I don't believe you.

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sounds like youre starting to hedge a bit!
Not at all, we know there is some evidence that masks can help under certain conditions, however this is weak. If there is ever a study that proves general use of masks is of benefit in preventing the spread of coronavirus and a full cost-benefit type analysis of their use is carried out, I will gladly put my hands up. I've changed my mind once on masks, so happy do it again!

With the likes of France now hitting 40,000 daily new cases with masks mandated everywhere, I just can't see it happening tbh!
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Old 23.10.2020, 08:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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Not at all, we know there is some evidence that masks can help under certain conditions, however this is weak. If there is ever a study that proves general use of masks is of benefit in preventing the spread of coronavirus and a full cost-benefit analysis of their use is carried out, I will gladly put my hands up. I've changed my mind once on masks, so happy do it again!

With the likes of France now hitting 40,000 daily new cases with masks mandated everywhere, I just can't see it happening tbh!
Cost-benefit, LMAO. Did you ever attempt to read any of the studies that exist?
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Old 23.10.2020, 08:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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So wearing a mask in the car when you are the only occupant of said car..

Does that keep you safe or is that for the pedestrians around you?


Asking for the hundreds of masked drivers i see daily
I think they put it on when in the buildings and around people and don't want to manipulate them/desinfect hands each time they sit in the car or leave. I know, I'd also look for any moment of not having to wear them to get a bit of breeze on my face, 12hrs of mask wearing wears one down. Maybe they also sleep in their work clothes...dunno.
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Old 23.10.2020, 09:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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Basically that I don't believe you.
You don't believe me because it suits your cognitive bias to not believe me. And THAT is precisely your problem. You filter truth through your mental lens of what you WANT to be true, rather than what is true.
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  #14620  
Old 23.10.2020, 09:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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Basically that I don't believe you.



Not at all, we know there is some evidence that masks can help under certain conditions, however this is weak. If there is ever a study that proves general use of masks is of benefit in preventing the spread of coronavirus and a full cost-benefit type analysis of their use is carried out, I will gladly put my hands up. I've changed my mind once on masks, so happy do it again!

With the likes of France now hitting 40,000 daily new cases with masks mandated everywhere, I just can't see it happening tbh!
The viral spread is so present that it was the moment China banned people from leaving their homes completely. Basically any human is considered a potential vector. Slovakia is doin it right now, planned for 3wks it looks like - to break the chain. Stay home completely. I really wish it works for them. CZ is asking people to not leaves home unless for necessary shop/med/pharmacy trips and walks with no people around, I am crossing fingers for their strategy big times. Discipline. But it is wearing the nation down.
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