Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #14621  
Old 23.10.2020, 10:08
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 5,022
Groaned at 281 Times in 201 Posts
Thanked 10,562 Times in 3,962 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
So wearing a mask in the car when you are the only occupant of said car..

Does that keep you safe or is that for the pedestrians around you?


Asking for the hundreds of masked drivers i see daily
Lol. I admit that I've forgotten to take mine off a few times. Unless a mask is fogging up my glasses, sometimes I forget that I'm even wearing one. (I'm sure that would be a different story if I had to wear one all day, though). I normally wear a mask until I get back into my car.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Pancakes for this useful post:
  #14622  
Old 23.10.2020, 10:29
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,428 Times in 10,577 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
With the likes of France now hitting 40,000 daily new cases with masks mandated everywhere, I just can't see it happening tbh!
What is the message they got, though?

For a period of time - the CV was considered nothing, no masks necessary (basically - we don't have them available, need them for hospitals and GPs). WHO was blase. Then all of a sudden, masks on. But it is just sneezing and coughing that spreads it, yes, we got enough masks, you gotta wear them. Then wait, it is actually just a mere existence of somebody positive breathing next to you who doesn't know/or does that could be a spreader, masks block only 20-30%. While tests are expensive and then free. And then mild symptoms don't count. Track yourself and trace others, the centers get overwhealmed. While people are being shamed for not adjusting fast enough. While their jobs are jeopardized, they worry about family, the info is confusing and sometimes contradictory while countries adopt different strategies and we have access to that info. Meanwhile, you gotta put a front on that nothing is happening so your loved ones don't flip. While some seek therapy online by offloading their anxiety which feeds other people's anxiety. If masks unite as a gesture, then why not.

You see - within a short time, regular busy working folks gotta adjust to a lot of absolutely inconvenient and potentially dangerous stuff, while sometimes they get access to the right info and sometimes they don't. It isn't easy.

To argue online in this intense moment is counterproductive, though I feel that we as a community care for each other hence it gets intense.

Thanks everybody who in a good will chips in with what they find relevant. I know you, guys, care.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

Last edited by MusicChick; 23.10.2020 at 10:52.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #14623  
Old 23.10.2020, 10:34
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 3,649
Groaned at 42 Times in 42 Posts
Thanked 4,892 Times in 2,270 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Basically that I don't believe you.

Not at all, we know there is some evidence that masks can help under certain conditions, however this is weak. If there is ever a study that proves general use of masks is of benefit in preventing the spread of coronavirus and a full cost-benefit type analysis of their use is carried out, I will gladly put my hands up. I've changed my mind once on masks, so happy do it again!

With the likes of France now hitting 40,000 daily new cases with masks mandated everywhere, I just can't see it happening tbh!

Costs: 0.20 CHF a piece. Any other?
Reply With Quote
  #14624  
Old 23.10.2020, 10:48
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 1,091
Groaned at 164 Times in 111 Posts
Thanked 2,920 Times in 1,062 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

In other news, even the EU pushes for an overhaul of the WHO

" The European Union wants the World Health Organization to become more transparent..."

Hopefully they can make something out of it, but the fact that WHO has had a politically driven agenda way before the pandemic, I am skeptical.

https://www.reuters.com/article/heal...-idUSKBN2770VR
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
  #14625  
Old 23.10.2020, 10:51
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,428 Times in 10,577 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Costs: 0.20 CHF a piece. Any other?
A family of 4 using 2 per day at least, 2 more for evening shops per 2 adults, makes it roughly 4 days per 1 box. The cheapest I got here were Coop 16fr ones, so every 4 days. That is real money for some people. I wouldn't shrug it off, especially on a forum where most people earn above the national average and have spouses at home to provide some of the support that the busy family of 4 might not have.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #14626  
Old 23.10.2020, 11:03
kngavl's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bärn
Posts: 723
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 781 Times in 328 Posts
kngavl has a reputation beyond reputekngavl has a reputation beyond reputekngavl has a reputation beyond reputekngavl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
So wearing a mask in the car when you are the only occupant of said car..

Does that keep you safe or is that for the pedestrians around you?


Asking for the hundreds of masked drivers i see daily
I have to wear a mask for basically the whole day, but when I work in certain rooms that only I have access to, I can take it off. The issue is that sometimes I'll forget that I have to wear a mask in the hallways/other rooms and it's just easier to keep the mask on and not forget to have to put it on.

I assume it'd be the same for someone that is doing delivery, or using the car for only short trips between locations. It's easier to have the mask on all the time.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank kngavl for this useful post:
  #14627  
Old 23.10.2020, 11:06
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 2,537
Groaned at 127 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 4,607 Times in 1,842 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
https://voxeu.org/article/face-mask-...ovid-19-canada

There was another, similar thing I read, but don't remember the title.

Actually, there is a reference to similar studies in the article:

"Our results for Canada are consistent with two other recent observational studies on the effects of mask mandates. Chernozhukov et al. (2020) use differences in the timing of mask mandates for employees in public-facing businesses across US states and find that these mandates are associated with a reduction of 9–10 percentage points in the weekly growth rate of COVID-19 cases. Our estimates are larger, partly because we analyse universal mandatory mask wearing. Similarly, Mitze et al. (2020) study the city of Jena and regions in Germany that adopted mask mandates before the rest of the country and estimate that requiring the public to wear face masks reduced the daily growth rate of COVID-19 cases by about 40%."
From the article I posted yesterday (emphasis added):

"Conclusion

Our results suggest that mandating wearing face masks in public can be an effective policy to slow the spread of COVID-19. Some may cite the currently growing cases in Europe, certain US states and Canadian provinces with mask mandates as ‘evidence’ against this conclusion. It is important to remember that the reduction effect we estimate is relative to the absence of mask mandates and not absolute: although we find a substantial effect of requiring masks in indoor public spaces, it may be far from enough to prevent an increase in new infections on its own.

Nevertheless, a mask mandate can be an important element of a suite of policies that keeps COVID-19 transmission at a manageable level, especially given the policy’s relatively low cost to the economy."

In my view this sums it up pretty well.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
  #14628  
Old 23.10.2020, 11:07
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,366
Groaned at 523 Times in 442 Posts
Thanked 20,372 Times in 10,723 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Lol. I admit that I've forgotten to take mine off a few times. Unless a mask is fogging up my glasses, sometimes I forget that I'm even wearing one. (I'm sure that would be a different story if I had to wear one all day, though). I normally wear a mask until I get back into my car.
Same "sometimes I forget that I'm even wearing one", it is really not burdensome and if it improves my chances by even just a few percent then I am all for them.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #14629  
Old 23.10.2020, 11:07
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,765
Groaned at 623 Times in 355 Posts
Thanked 4,175 Times in 1,769 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Costs: 0.20 CHF a piece. Any other?
If it costs that little then you're not using them correctly
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #14630  
Old 23.10.2020, 11:10
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 5,022
Groaned at 281 Times in 201 Posts
Thanked 10,562 Times in 3,962 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

I prefer cloth masks... They're cheaper because they're washable / reusable and they're better for the environment. Apparently, surgical masks are not biodegradable.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Pancakes for this useful post:
  #14631  
Old 23.10.2020, 11:19
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Bern
Posts: 288
Groaned at 199 Times in 106 Posts
Thanked 995 Times in 467 Posts
Full Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I prefer cloth masks... They're cheaper because they're washable / reusable and they're better for the environment. Apparently, surgical masks are not biodegradable.
Is this the next level of mask virtue signaling?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Full Circle for this useful post:
This user groans at Full Circle for this post:
  #14632  
Old 23.10.2020, 11:21
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,236
Groaned at 373 Times in 313 Posts
Thanked 14,346 Times in 6,652 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Is this the next level of mask virtue signaling?

No, common sense
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank roegner for this useful post:
  #14633  
Old 23.10.2020, 11:26
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,428 Times in 10,577 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
If it costs that little then you're not using them correctly
If a family wears 2 masks per day, with the Coop cheapest plus the desinfectant and a trip to the shops or extra masks ocassionally, it is probably 200-220fr extra per month. That is school food for the one of the teen in family, or textbook money.

I see the point in the mask politics, but don't see the point in the way it gets handled: yes masks, no masks, aerosols (that indeed is the main issue), surgical masks for edu and medical environment (while it should be respirators, oops we don't have enough), textile 'community' masks are ok when handled right...or not (see aerosols).

I know we are all improvizing, and well, if you ask me. I can see us follow the Ireland/Welsh/CZ/SK route soon - it will cost us all much more than a box of masks per day.

I wouldn't worry about drivers in their cars, with their masks on. Public transport when people are an inch from one another is probably what we should be thinking about.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

Last edited by MusicChick; 24.10.2020 at 10:32.
Reply With Quote
  #14634  
Old 23.10.2020, 11:27
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 5,022
Groaned at 281 Times in 201 Posts
Thanked 10,562 Times in 3,962 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Is this the next level of mask virtue signaling?
I suppose that people who consider psychopathy to be normal, acceptable behavior probably would consider something like that to be "virtue signalling."
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Pancakes for this useful post:
  #14635  
Old 23.10.2020, 11:29
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 1,091
Groaned at 164 Times in 111 Posts
Thanked 2,920 Times in 1,062 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

To be honest, the mask debate is ridiculous. If this is the "cost" to avoid lockdowns, c'mon, just wear one. It's literally is the easiest compromise one can make in order to avoid mini lockdowns. Being able to have a semi-normal life is much more preferable for EVERYONE vs. a lockdown.

Wear your fu$%'n masks!
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
  #14636  
Old 23.10.2020, 11:33
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 3,649
Groaned at 42 Times in 42 Posts
Thanked 4,892 Times in 2,270 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
A family of 4 using 2 per day at least, 2 more for evening shops per 2 adults, makes it roughly 4 days per 1 box. The cheapest I got here were Coop 16fr ones, so every 4 days. That is real money for some people. I wouldn't shrug it off, especially on a forum where most people earn above the national average and have spouses at home to provide some of the support that the busy family of 4 might not have.

I guess that's one reason why there's no obligation to wear one unless in shops and public transport.
Reply With Quote
  #14637  
Old 23.10.2020, 11:33
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,765
Groaned at 623 Times in 355 Posts
Thanked 4,175 Times in 1,769 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
If a family wears 2 masks per day, with the Coop cheapest plus the desinfectant and a trip to the shops or extra masks ocassionally, it is probably 200-220fr extra per month. That is school food for the one of the teen in family, or textbook books money.

I see the point in the mask politics, but don't see the point in the way it gets handled: yes masks, no masks, aerosols (that indeed is the main issue), surgical masks for edu and medical environment (while it should be respirators, oops we don't have enough), textile 'community' masks are ok when handled right...or not (see aerosols).

I know we are all improvizing, and well, if you ask me. I can see us follow the Ireland/Welsh/CZ/SK route soon - it will cost us all much more than a box of masks per day.

I wouldn't worry about drivers in their cars, with their masks on. Public transport when people are an inch from one another is probably what we should be thinking about.
The actual cost is just a part of it too, what I really meant was the cost to society, the cost on the environment, the cost to the deaf etc.
Reply With Quote
  #14638  
Old 23.10.2020, 11:39
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Bern
Posts: 288
Groaned at 199 Times in 106 Posts
Thanked 995 Times in 467 Posts
Full Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
To be honest, the mask debate is ridiculous. If this is the "cost" to avoid lockdowns, c'mon, just wear one. It's literally is the easiest compromise one can make in order to avoid mini lockdowns. Being able to have a semi-normal life is much more preferable for EVERYONE vs. a lockdown.

Wear your fu$%'n masks!
Wear your fu$%'n masks!

(And I know it's a pandemic and people are dying and having their lives ruined but just try to ensure that your mask is biodegradable because it's better for the environment. Some of us like to be a part of the solution and not part of the problem.)
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Full Circle for this useful post:
  #14639  
Old 23.10.2020, 11:40
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
If it costs that little then you're not using them correctly
A piece. Not a day or week or whatever.

Current price in Lidl is CHF 9.90 for 50. 20 Rp a piece, yes.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #14640  
Old 23.10.2020, 11:45
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,428 Times in 10,577 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I guess that's one reason why there's no obligation to wear one unless in shops and public transport.
If you watch the InfraRouge I linked on Wednesday, there is a retired prof saying how inefficient any obligation is. She was interesting, said that things here only work because people have a choice. They also limit exposure and limit themselves to provide the choice voluntarily to others, who might not have it as easy. It is a completely different ethos than obligation or shaming. I see this time cussion that cantons were given to reassess and decide, quantify risk, the same way. The federal body gives them time but also conditions - money injections will be available if you consider playing fair and restrict yourself for the sake of the country, even if local levels are less risky. Ie - schools. You cannot have some cantons without school and some with. Federal lockdowns are complex, they gotta value who gets disadvantaged and how to spread it so the fallout hits evenly. Never think that somebody is being lax about this. I am glad that it is unpoliticized to max here. CZ as well, it is only Sec of Health now and Army/Emergency supplies dealing with situ, all the rest accomodates and supports. Here there are resources to have people stress less.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
cold, corona, coronavirus, covid, covid-19, flu, health, medical, virus




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 8 (0 members and 8 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coronavirus Jokes makeabigwish Daily life 267 Yesterday 18:42
Coronavirus closed janvier Forum support 18 01.11.2020 14:12
Paid holidays and coronavirus Curtiss Employment 2 20.04.2020 10:22
Coronavirus scammers are out there - be warned Medea Fleecestealer Daily life 9 18.04.2020 19:53
Leaving Switzerland for UK during coronavirus barkingtreewolf Leaving Switzerland 19 11.04.2020 12:45


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0