Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #14801  
Old 24.10.2020, 13:26
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,489
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,428 Times in 10,577 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
But they alao have immunity for this otherwise we'd all have died by now (or at least many many many more).
Yes. I am glad you mentioned this. I think non-panic vision makes one open to this kind of data: Covid-19: Do many people have pre-existing immunity? https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3563

I am not saying that I believe that I am immune or that there is a way to know, but I just wouldn't shrug off these educated opinions that keep appearing. It seems that the lack of action that people criticize the gov for (which is a normal way of dealing with stress and danger on citizens' part), might be just gov's willingness to make the best decisions.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #14802  
Old 24.10.2020, 13:32
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 4,896
Groaned at 275 Times in 195 Posts
Thanked 10,048 Times in 3,794 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
But they alao have immunity for this otherwise we'd all have died by now (or at least many many many more).

And I'm sorry but it doesn't add up for me. It either spreads more rapidly but its mortality rate is enormously low, or it is more lethal but spreads less easily. It's obviously been around at least since December, if it was as lethal and as contagious, we'd look at a very different picture where many healthy (incl non-obese) young would've died. But that's not the case.
There is at least one example of a guy getting the virus twice where, the first time, he had very few symptoms. The second time he caught it, he had very severe symptoms and needed to be hospitalized because he wasn't getting enough oxygen. He's 25 years old.

Covid reinfection: Man gets Covid twice and second hit 'more severe'
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54512034

Also, you need to take into account the fact that people's risk factors can change over time, particularly in relation to their vitamin D levels. Someone who catches the virus in June when their levels are good may not react to it severely, but that could be entirely different if they caught the virus in the autumn or winter when their D levels are low. Also, if someone catches the virus while already having a bad cold or the seasonal flu.

So this... not to mention the fact that the virus is more contagious and behaves differently in colder weather due to the way its outer shell reacts to lower temperatures and less humidity. This makes the virus more "sticky" which in turn could cause a higher viral load and translate into a higher rate of morbidity.
Reply With Quote
  #14803  
Old 24.10.2020, 13:43
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,656
Groaned at 584 Times in 334 Posts
Thanked 4,095 Times in 1,716 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Thank you so much for sharing that!

So if there is truth to that (and I assume that there is), then it looks like masks will soon be mandatory for children in primary and secondary schools.

Anyone here who has kids that age might want to consider getting some children's masks ASAP. I won't be surprised at all if they become very difficult to find soon. I have seen some fabric kids' masks sold in C&A (kids section) as well as both fabric and medical kids' masks in the Muller Reformhaus stores.

It looks like amazon.de has quite a few kids' surgical masks on their site but don't seem to ship here to CH -- perhaps due to their current restrictions regarding the export of masks, etc. (no idea).
Fear mongering nonsense, primary school children are NOT going to be required to wear masks!!
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #14804  
Old 24.10.2020, 13:48
Belgianmum's Avatar
Roastbeef & Yorkshire mod
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 13,127
Groaned at 236 Times in 198 Posts
Thanked 21,827 Times in 8,928 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
But they alao have immunity for this otherwise we'd all have died by now (or at least many many many more).

And I'm sorry but it doesn't add up for me. It either spreads more rapidly but its mortality rate is enormously low, or it is more lethal but spreads less easily. It's obviously been around at least since December, if it was as lethal and as contagious, we'd look at a very different picture where many healthy (incl non-obese) young would've died. But that's not the case.
I haven’t got time to explain it to you now but go and have a read about immunity and how viruses work.
It’s not quite as simple as that.

Quote:
View Post
Fear mongering nonsense, primary school children are NOT going to be required to wear masks!!
Based on the tweet posted here earlier I wouldn’t be too sure about that, anything is possible.
If they’re considering making masks obligatory outdoors too, which is frankly ridiculous, they could easily make them obligatory in primary schools too.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Belgianmum for this useful post:
  #14805  
Old 24.10.2020, 13:52
V__'s Avatar
V__ V__ is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 1,511
Groaned at 384 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 2,082 Times in 866 Posts
V__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Fear mongering nonsense, primary school children are NOT going to be required to wear masks!!
It's beyond crazy the amount of cheering I see from certain people on EF on having a second lock down or restrictive measures, like somebody here mentioned they weren't social at all before and they were happy to be alone and isolated at home, they problem is they don't realize the majority of people aren't like that
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank V__ for this useful post:
  #14806  
Old 24.10.2020, 13:57
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
It's beyond crazy the amount of cheering I see from certain people on EF on having a second lock down or restrictive measures, like somebody here mentioned they weren't social at all before and they were happy to be alone and isolated at home, they problem is they don't realize the majority of people aren't like that
Funny, I don't see any cheering. Quite the reverse - anger at the authorities at having let it get so bad that it's going to force us into more drastic action.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #14807  
Old 24.10.2020, 14:01
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Fear mongering nonsense, primary school children are NOT going to be required to wear masks!!
So it isn't a requirement in any of our neighbouring countries as an example? Like Austria perhaps...?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #14808  
Old 24.10.2020, 14:06
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: VS
Posts: 109
Groaned at 21 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 69 Times in 44 Posts
alexyalmtl is considered knowledgeablealexyalmtl is considered knowledgeablealexyalmtl is considered knowledgeable
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
It's beyond crazy the amount of cheering I see from certain people on EF on having a second lock down or restrictive measures, like somebody here mentioned they weren't social at all before and they were happy to be alone and isolated at home, they problem is they don't realize the majority of people aren't like that

Yes, I get the impression reading some of the posts. A lot of people are ready to accept drastic restrictions of freedom to save some lives. The rest of us are convinced that such restrictions won't save enough lives to compensate the dramatic losses that will themselves, ultimately, lead to greater loss of life.


And, if I might add: some of us believe that preserving basic freedoms is at least as virtuous as trying to prevent deaths that may very well have occurred otherwise during a bad flu season.

Last edited by alexyalmtl; 24.10.2020 at 14:08. Reason: forgot something
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank alexyalmtl for this useful post:
  #14809  
Old 24.10.2020, 14:06
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,094
Groaned at 510 Times in 433 Posts
Thanked 19,984 Times in 10,538 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Yes. I am glad you mentioned this. I think non-panic vision makes one open to this kind of data: Covid-19: Do many people have pre-existing immunity? https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3563

I am not saying that I believe that I am immune or that there is a way to know, but I just wouldn't shrug off these educated opinions that keep appearing. It seems that the lack of action that people criticize the gov for (which is a normal way of dealing with stress and danger on citizens' part), might be just gov's willingness to make the best decisions.
I quote "The immunologists I spoke to agreed that T cells could be a key factor that explains why places like New York, London, and Stockholm seem to have experienced a wave of infections and no subsequent resurgence."
Of course, all of those places are actually seeing a resurgence, see new cases in Sweden below.
Sweden has now introduced a local lockdown in Uppsala, Stockholm county, Dr. Johan Nojd, who leads the infectious diseases department in the city of Uppsala, told the Telegraph.
I am sure T cells have a role to play but so far nobody tells us how powerful an immunity is provided.

Name:  swedensecondwave.jpg
Views: 312
Size:  82.7 KB
__________________
It is naive to assume my posts are my own work
Reply With Quote
  #14810  
Old 24.10.2020, 14:19
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,489
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,428 Times in 10,577 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Yes, I get the impression reading some of the posts. A lot of people are ready to accept drastic restrictions of freedom to save some lives. The rest of us are convinced that such restrictions won't save enough lives to compensate the dramatic losses that will themselves, ultimately, lead to greater loss of life.


And, if I might add: some of us believe that preserving basic freedoms is at least as virtuous as trying to prevent deaths that may very well have occurred otherwise during a bad flu season.
I think I don't see the extreme freedom restrictions, it is relative. But measures do ask kids to pay off the debts that will make their lives low quality. Most people do not even have grandparents here (don't risk infecting them by visiting) and loads of posters are already on home office or even stay at home people, with minimized risk, compared to us who will brave it out there.

It is a very tough job of cantons to balance the virtuous acts now, gov needs support and not being shamed by armchair experts. I think they are risking a lot, since in a few days it will be feds who will take over. Trying to adjust lo local needs, having only few days..is an ungrateful job.

There is no lag - there are very few hours left where gov is giving chances to local people to support business and arrange secure measure themselves to minimize the fallout and to persuade people to not rely on the authority and behave responsibly on their own. Gov knows that anything imposed is less efficient, people rebel. People fatigue.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #14811  
Old 24.10.2020, 14:24
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: VS
Posts: 109
Groaned at 21 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 69 Times in 44 Posts
alexyalmtl is considered knowledgeablealexyalmtl is considered knowledgeablealexyalmtl is considered knowledgeable
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I think I don't see the extreme freedom restrictions, it is relative. But measures do ask kids to pay off the debts that will make their lives low quality. Most people do not even have grandparents here (don't risk infecting them by visiting) and loads of posters are already on home office or even stay at home people, with minimized risk, compared to us who will brave it out there. It is a very tough job of cantons to balance the virtuous acts now, gov needs support and not being shamed by armchair experts. I think they are risking a lot, since in a few days it will be feds who will take over. Trying to adjust lo local needs, having only few days..is an ungrateful job. There is no lag - there are very few hours left where gov is giving chances to local people to support business and arrange secure measure themselves to minimize the fallout and to persuade people to not rely on the authority and behave responsibly on their own. Gov knows that anything imposed is less efficient, people rebel.

Okay, reasonable.
But just allow me to focus on the 'extreme restrictions' for a moment. Given the large diversity of foreigners participating in this forum, it's also safe to say that some, because of their personal history, are very wary of government incursion and measures said to be temporary, that are never lifted.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank alexyalmtl for this useful post:
This user groans at alexyalmtl for this post:
  #14812  
Old 24.10.2020, 14:30
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 4,896
Groaned at 275 Times in 195 Posts
Thanked 10,048 Times in 3,794 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Fear mongering nonsense, primary school children are NOT going to be required to wear masks!!
It's really disturbing how you instinctively label anything and everything as "fear mongering nonsense" when it doesn't conform to your narrative.

Masks are mandatory for primary school kids in parts of Germany (and in the US). Why would you assume that that could never be the case here?
I was just in the apotheke here, and two of the workers there said that they have heard the same thing -- that primarily school kids will soon have to wear masks here. I also saw a mother that I know and she had heard the same thing. Perhaps the rules will vary a bit by canton, though.

Here is a photo of primary school kids in Germany that was taken outside of their school:

Name:  germany - children masks.jpg
Views: 291
Size:  128.7 KB
Reply With Quote
  #14813  
Old 24.10.2020, 14:30
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,489
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,428 Times in 10,577 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Okay, reasonable.
But just allow me to focus on the 'extreme restrictions' for a moment. Given the large diversity of foreigners participating in this forum, it's also safe to say that some, because of their personal history, are very wary of government incursion and measures said to be temporary, that are never lifted.
I would say that maybe they do not understand the local autonomous spirit, the antipathy to have to be told to be reasonable. Most people I know in CH don't have to be told anything. The local gov is trusted more than feds. But all I hear here on EF is waiting for feds to impose something..It is the opposite of local culture.

CV is rampant here and local measure is 11pm on resto and being served while seated. The authorities know that customers will come and donate their cash to local business even if the food sucks. People are far from worried about themselves here.

That said, hospitals are expected to run out of space in 2wks. So. It is not just gov that has it tough. Everyone does. We all make choices.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #14814  
Old 24.10.2020, 14:33
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 4,896
Groaned at 275 Times in 195 Posts
Thanked 10,048 Times in 3,794 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Ugh, I just got some crazy news about a half hour ago. I was in the apotheke and asked about flu shots, and they said that they don't have any and won't until at least December (and she was unsure if they would even have some then). She also said that most (if not all) doctor's offices don't have them due to a shortage of them in Switzerland.

I'm just a little pissed off... Particularly at the thought of there being no flu shots for the elderly when it has already been stated that everyone 6 months and older should be getting flu shots this year.

Why the hell did the government, etc. NOT prepare for this by ensuring that there are sufficient flu shots this year???
Reply With Quote
  #14815  
Old 24.10.2020, 14:50
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,489
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,428 Times in 10,577 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Hundreds of Czech firefighters are sick with Covid, which makes me think - I know it is a beautiful sunny and warm day, but if you plan on BBQ outside or anything mildly risky, just wait a couple of weeks, pls.
Reply With Quote
  #14816  
Old 24.10.2020, 15:09
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,094
Groaned at 510 Times in 433 Posts
Thanked 19,984 Times in 10,538 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Yes, I get the impression reading some of the posts. A lot of people are ready to accept drastic restrictions of freedom to save some lives. The rest of us are convinced that such restrictions won't save enough lives to compensate the dramatic losses that will themselves, ultimately, lead to greater loss of life.


And, if I might add: some of us believe that preserving basic freedoms is at least as virtuous as trying to prevent deaths that may very well have occurred otherwise during a bad flu season.
Where do you draw the red line on preserving basic freedoms? Are you OK with people being required to pass a test before driving a vehicle or having a photo id to enter another country? Or wearing seat belts in cars or crash helmets on motorbikes.
Reply With Quote
  #14817  
Old 24.10.2020, 15:12
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,378
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Where do you draw the red line on preserving basic freedoms? Are you OK with people being required to pass a test before driving a vehicle or having a photo id to enter another country? Or wearing seat belts in cars or crash helmets on motorbikes.
I think seat belts & crash helmets should be optional, if we can get a few reckless drivers off the road why not?
Reply With Quote
  #14818  
Old 24.10.2020, 15:12
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,094
Groaned at 510 Times in 433 Posts
Thanked 19,984 Times in 10,538 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Ugh, I just got some crazy news about a half hour ago. I was in the apotheke and asked about flu shots, and they said that they don't have any and won't until at least December (and she was unsure if they would even have some then). She also said that most (if not all) doctor's offices don't have them due to a shortage of them in Switzerland.

I'm just a little pissed off... Particularly at the thought of there being no flu shots for the elderly when it has already been stated that everyone 6 months and older should be getting flu shots this year.

Why the hell did the government, etc. NOT prepare for this by ensuring that there are sufficient flu shots this year???
Found this
In a regular year, Switzerland orders 1.2 million doses of the seasonal flu vaccine. These doses have already been ordered and will be delivered in late September and early October. This year the federal government is aiming for an additional 400,000 to 600,000 doses.
The objective is to avoid seasonal flu and SARS-CoV-2 co-infection, which could carry increased risks.

Source

Maybe they are all gone?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #14819  
Old 24.10.2020, 15:21
ennui's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Kt Zurich
Posts: 984
Groaned at 35 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 3,128 Times in 1,093 Posts
ennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I think seat belts & crash helmets should be optional, if we can get a few reckless drivers off the road why not?
Yes, but when that helmetless or non seatbelt wearing driver crashes into a vulnerable spot in your car, or runs you down, it’s reckless +1 (or more).
Reply With Quote
  #14820  
Old 24.10.2020, 15:27
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,378
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Yes, but when that helmetless or non seatbelt wearing driver crashes into a vulnerable spot in your car, or runs you down, it’s reckless +1 (or more).
Why would we try to save such drivers by law? Seems counter productive to me.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cold, corona, coronavirus, covid, covid-19, flu, health, medical, virus




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 10 (2 members and 8 guests)
Blueangel
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coronavirus Jokes makeabigwish Daily life 256 Today 21:06
Coronavirus closed janvier Forum support 18 01.11.2020 13:12
Paid holidays and coronavirus Curtiss Employment 2 20.04.2020 09:22
Coronavirus scammers are out there - be warned Medea Fleecestealer Daily life 9 18.04.2020 18:53
Leaving Switzerland for UK during coronavirus barkingtreewolf Leaving Switzerland 19 11.04.2020 11:45


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0