Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #14841  
Old 24.10.2020, 20:07
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 3,865
Groaned at 181 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 7,363 Times in 2,877 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I’ve just ordered 2 packs of 50 disposable child-size masks from DeinDeal at 8.95 per pack. They have it on permanent offer, delivers in 48 hours.
Oooh, nice! Thank you for the tip!
I wonder why that never showed up for me in the search results. Weird...

Edit: Sigh. I guess I was too slow. I just checked and they're all sold out of those on there. It's okay, though. I have fabric masks and can also sew some. I had a feeling that kids' masks were being bought up very quickly right now. When I was in the apotheke earlier, there was a woman in there buying quite a few fabric children's masks.

Last edited by Pancakes; 24.10.2020 at 20:22.
Reply With Quote
  #14842  
Old 24.10.2020, 20:10
baboon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 4,076
Groaned at 155 Times in 134 Posts
Thanked 7,109 Times in 3,263 Posts
baboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Thanks. I was curious if anyone here had been able to get one recently or had had trouble getting one.
Got the same story from my doctor.

I'll try one of the flu day participants and see what happens.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank baboon for this useful post:
  #14843  
Old 24.10.2020, 20:27
Mélusine's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lutry
Posts: 3,849
Groaned at 31 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 5,387 Times in 2,184 Posts
Mélusine has a reputation beyond reputeMélusine has a reputation beyond reputeMélusine has a reputation beyond reputeMélusine has a reputation beyond reputeMélusine has a reputation beyond reputeMélusine has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Oooh, nice! Thank you for the tip!
I wonder why that never showed up for me in the search results. Weird...

Edit: Sigh. I guess I was too slow. I just checked and they're all sold out of those on there. It's okay, though. I have fabric masks and can also sew some. I had a feeling that kids' masks were being bought up very quickly right now. When I was in the apotheke earlier, there was a woman in there buying quite a few fabric children's masks.
Are you sure??? I’ve just checked and they were available?
https://www.deindeal.ch/fr/sanitrade...ategory/304288
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Mélusine for this useful post:
  #14844  
Old 24.10.2020, 20:31
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 3,865
Groaned at 181 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 7,363 Times in 2,877 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

It looks like Switzerland isn't the only country experiencing a shortage of flu shots right now. I just looked it up, and apparently Canada and the US are as well. I'm sure many other countries are too, then... or will be.

It does upset me, though, that they weren't better prepared for the increased demand. We've had all summer knowing that there was a bad second wave predicted for the Autumn and that flu shots were being strongly recommended for everyone over the age of 6 months.

I also wish I was seeing more stuff out there warning people about how important it is to have proper vitamin D levels right now. I've been practically begging my elderly parents (in the US) to get their levels checked.
Reply With Quote
  #14845  
Old 24.10.2020, 20:32
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 3,865
Groaned at 181 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 7,363 Times in 2,877 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Are you sure??? I’ve just checked and they were available?
https://www.deindeal.ch/fr/sanitrade...ategory/304288
That is so bizarre... When I went there a bit ago, it said "Ausverkauft" and wouldn't let me put any in my basket. But now they're letting me and it no longer says that they're sold out. Thank you so much!!!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Pancakes for this useful post:
  #14846  
Old 24.10.2020, 21:07
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 213
Groaned at 19 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 210 Times in 113 Posts
vladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
But they alao have immunity for this otherwise we'd all have died by now (or at least many many many more).

And I'm sorry but it doesn't add up for me. It either spreads more rapidly but its mortality rate is enormously low, or it is more lethal but spreads less easily. It's obviously been around at least since December, if it was as lethal and as contagious, we'd look at a very different picture where many healthy (incl non-obese) young would've died. But that's not the case.
beware, you are stepping in religious path of cross-immunity
Reply With Quote
  #14847  
Old 24.10.2020, 21:12
baboon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 4,076
Groaned at 155 Times in 134 Posts
Thanked 7,109 Times in 3,263 Posts
baboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
It's really disturbing how you instinctively label anything and everything as "fear mongering nonsense" when it doesn't conform to your narrative....
Just work on the assumption s/he's a troll. It's the only way the posts make any sense.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank baboon for this useful post:
  #14848  
Old 24.10.2020, 21:14
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 735
Groaned at 15 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 887 Times in 460 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I quote "The immunologists I spoke to agreed that T cells could be a key factor that explains why places like New York, London, and Stockholm seem to have experienced a wave of infections and no subsequent resurgence."
Of course, all of those places are actually seeing a resurgence, see new cases in Sweden below.
Sweden has now introduced a local lockdown in Uppsala, Stockholm county, Dr. Johan Nojd, who leads the infectious diseases department in the city of Uppsala, told the Telegraph.
I am sure T cells have a role to play but so far nobody tells us how powerful an immunity is provided.

Attachment 140501
But the "resurgence" in Stockholm, Nes York and London is not nearly as strong as the second wave we are seeing here, or in the north of England or in the Czech Republic. Which would indicate that there is, if not yet herd immunity then a decent herd effect is there from the first wave depressing R.

After a reasonable second wave we will probably more or less be there in some of these places. Close enough to stay open with sensible precautions at least. Squash it harshly early on again and we will still be here this time next year in lockdown cycles desperate for the small amounts of vaccine. A managed slow decline would be ideal. Keep the health services from being overwhelmed whilst slowly and controllably building up immunity.

Humans are bad at overestimating acute risks and underestimating chronic risk. I'd posit that the acute risk is now limited (and falling) in some of these places that had strong first waves whereas the chronic risks remain as strong as ever. Personally I'm far more more worried about the economy and kids education than the direct threat from Covid in places with a decent first wave. Covid-naive places naturally at a greater acute risk.

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 24.10.2020 at 21:50.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank HickvonFrick for this useful post:
  #14849  
Old 24.10.2020, 21:22
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored˛
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 15,518
Groaned at 314 Times in 222 Posts
Thanked 17,968 Times in 9,324 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
That’s not true actually. In the mail I got from the department it’s said we have to tolerate any kind of masks from the students, as the parents will have to provide them from the 2nd of November. Next week only schools will provide disposable surgical masks.
Yesterday at 1.30pm the Conseil d'etat (VD) allowed textile masks but with a certain label (TESTEX). It changed since then??

I saw those in the post-office, in a number of sizes.

Last edited by MusicChick; 24.10.2020 at 21:33.
Reply With Quote
  #14850  
Old 24.10.2020, 21:23
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 735
Groaned at 15 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 887 Times in 460 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
It looks like Switzerland isn't the only country experiencing a shortage of flu shots right now. I just looked it up, and apparently Canada and the US are as well. I'm sure many other countries are too, then... or will be.

It does upset me, though, that they weren't better prepared for the increased demand. We've had all summer knowing that there was a bad second wave predicted for the Autumn and that flu shots were being strongly recommended for everyone over the age of 6 months.

I also wish I was seeing more stuff out there warning people about how important it is to have proper vitamin D levels right now. I've been practically begging my elderly parents (in the US) to get their levels checked.
If the Southern Hemisphere is anything to go by this just wont matter. Social distancing killed off influenza given our high levels of herd immunity. This is the one year I wouldn't overly worry about the flu. Get the shot if you can naturally - but don't panic if you can't.
Reply With Quote
  #14851  
Old 24.10.2020, 21:46
zuzi666's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Oberwallis
Posts: 238
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 82 Times in 50 Posts
zuzi666 is considered knowledgeablezuzi666 is considered knowledgeablezuzi666 is considered knowledgeable
Re: Coronavirus

back home, a friend tested positive with symptoms this week. he got it at work, 18 people positive with symptoms from 25 that were at work due to workshop. even though everybody had masks and they had 2 m between and disinfectants everywhere. epidemiologist said due to air conditionaing that wasn't cleaned enough. that is why some buildings in Zagreb turned off air conditioning this summer.
3 of 18 positive with symptoms got flu shot like 5 days before testing positive for covid and have now the worsts symptoms from everyone and highes fever. they were told it's because the body is fighting now both of reactions.

this got me thinking, should I get the flu shot or not. my company will vaccinate all employees that want, for free.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank zuzi666 for this useful post:
  #14852  
Old 24.10.2020, 21:50
Mélusine's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lutry
Posts: 3,849
Groaned at 31 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 5,387 Times in 2,184 Posts
Mélusine has a reputation beyond reputeMélusine has a reputation beyond reputeMélusine has a reputation beyond reputeMélusine has a reputation beyond reputeMélusine has a reputation beyond reputeMélusine has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Yesterday at 1.30pm the Conseil d'etat (VD) allowed textile masks but with a certain label (TESTEX). It changed since then??

I saw those in the post-office, in a number of sizes.
In the directives we got from Mr Valceschini, the head of DGEO, it is said we must accept any kind of masks for our students. For our own use however, if we chose not to use the disposable masks provided by our employer, we must chose the TESTEX label if possible. In effects, several colleagues use homemade masks and the director hasn’t complained so far.
Reply With Quote
  #14853  
Old 24.10.2020, 21:58
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,639
Groaned at 409 Times in 353 Posts
Thanked 17,259 Times in 9,277 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
But the "resurgence" in Stockholm, Nes York and London is not nearly as strong as the second wave we are seeing here, or in the north of England or in the Czech Republic. Which would indicate that there is, if not yet herd immunity then a decent herd effect is there from the first wave depressing R.

After a reasonable second wave we will probably more or less be there in some of these places. Close enough to stay open with sensible precautions at least. Squash it harshly early on again and we will still be here this time next year in lockdown cycles desperate for the small amounts of vaccine. A managed slow decline would be ideal. Keep the health services from being overwhelmed whilst slowly and controllably building up immunity.

Humans are bad at overestimating acute risks and underestimating chronic risk. I'd posit that the acute risk is now limited (and falling) in some of these places that had strong first waves whereas the chronic risks remain as strong as ever.
LOL!
New COVID cases
Switzerland 7 day moving average Oct 23 ca. 52/100,000
London 7 day moving average 126.6/100,000

Your postulation has no legs. Sadly your herd effect exists only in your imagination.
Reply With Quote
  #14854  
Old 24.10.2020, 22:06
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 735
Groaned at 15 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 887 Times in 460 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
LOL!
New COVID cases
Switzerland 7 day moving average Oct 23 ca. 52/100,000
London 7 day moving average 126.6/100,000

Your postulation has no legs. Sadly your herd effect exists only in your imagination.
?????? That means nothing without considering when the second wave started in each of those places. I'm more interested in the speed of increase as we are talking about R and herd effects (which also has to consider London's density to some extent). Any scientist could see that. Even that's far from perfect as it doesn't take into account behaviour but it's better than nothing.

I'm afraid you are no scientist if you seriously believe there is no herd effect (not immunity ... effect). The number of people who died is in the 5 figures in London. The number who will have had it is therefore almost certainly in the 7 figures - and could well begin with a 2 rather than a 1. That's far from negligible. It's telling that it was hit the hardest in the first wave but has been hit less hard than almost all other major urban centres in the second wave. It's because R has been seriously effected by the number of people who have had it - plainly. Now that's not enough for life to be normal there but it is enough to dampen the worst of it.

I'll predict now we will likely see a proper herd immunity in some parts of the western world by the end of the winter but we aren't there yet. Ballpark 1/4 to 1/2 in the worst affected places. Switzerland as a whole maybe 10%.

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 24.10.2020 at 22:40.
Reply With Quote
  #14855  
Old 24.10.2020, 22:08
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored˛
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 15,518
Groaned at 314 Times in 222 Posts
Thanked 17,968 Times in 9,324 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Euronews just aired that Belgium has reached full hospital capacities.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #14856  
Old 24.10.2020, 22:30
V__ V__ is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 1,321
Groaned at 296 Times in 162 Posts
Thanked 1,392 Times in 659 Posts
V__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/202...s.html:msnmad:

Ontario shut down non-urgent health services in the spring. Now hospitals are seeing many morepatients with advanced cancers


Cancer surgeons in Ontario are reporting a sharp rise in the number of people coming to hospital with advanced cancers, an unintended consequence of the sudden shutdown of non-urgent health-care services during the spring wave of COVID-19.

In mid-March, the number of people getting routine cancer screening plummeted after the province halted its screening programs for breast, cervical and colorectal cancers.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank V__ for this useful post:
  #14857  
Old 24.10.2020, 22:34
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Thalwil
Posts: 237
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 120 Times in 67 Posts
TinyK has made some interesting contributions
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
They will (or schools will be closed), just wait and see. Children above 6 are required to wear masks in Singapore and it works.
Hopefully not. Are you serious about Singapore, that it's really that measure that saved he country from virus?
Reply With Quote
  #14858  
Old 24.10.2020, 22:48
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Thalwil
Posts: 237
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 120 Times in 67 Posts
TinyK has made some interesting contributions
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Anyone here who has kids that age might want to consider getting some children's masks ASAP. I won't be surprised at all if they become very difficult to find soon. I have seen some fabric kids' masks sold in C&A (kids section) as well as both fabric and medical kids' masks in the Muller Reformhaus stores.
I bought kids masks in C&A in summer for my kids just for fun. They appeared to be very small, maybe only suitable for the kids of pre-KiGa age.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank TinyK for this useful post:
  #14859  
Old 24.10.2020, 22:54
baboon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 4,076
Groaned at 155 Times in 134 Posts
Thanked 7,109 Times in 3,263 Posts
baboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
?????? That means nothing without considering when the second wave started in each of those places. I'm more interested in the speed of increase as we are talking about R and herd effects (which also has to consider London's density to some extent). Any scientist could see that. Even that's far from perfect as it doesn't take into account behaviour but it's better than nothing.

I'm afraid you are no scientist if you seriously believe there is no herd effect (not immunity ... effect......
I just checked, the London curve is similar to Switzerland, all kicked off in the last 2 weeks.

Given immunity probably only lasts 3 to 6 months it is unfortunately a real possibility that there will be no natural herd immunity. Peru is possibly the place to watch.

Last edited by baboon; 25.10.2020 at 00:42. Reason: Typos
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank baboon for this useful post:
  #14860  
Old 24.10.2020, 23:23
Talk to you later's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: ZH
Posts: 558
Groaned at 25 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 907 Times in 361 Posts
Talk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Any thoughts on China's numbers? Are their numbers all cooked up or have they got magical powers?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cold, corona, coronavirus, covid, covid-19, flu, health, medical, virus




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:30.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0