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  #14881  
Old 25.10.2020, 11:17
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Re: Coronavirus

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The percentage of those testing positive for antibodies to the coronavirus (COVID-19) in London is ca. 10%+, not sure where you got 20%?
Easy, he makes it up. Same as with the London curve vs Switzerland.
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  #14882  
Old 25.10.2020, 12:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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I guess the gov't is waiting until all the ICU beds are full to finally do something about it.
And in the meantime in Aargau.........

https://www.badenertagblatt.ch/aarga...rden-139586756
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  #14883  
Old 25.10.2020, 12:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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It's beyond crazy the amount of cheering I see from certain people on EF on having a second lock down or restrictive measures, like somebody here mentioned they weren't social at all before and they were happy to be alone and isolated at home, they problem is they don't realize the majority of people aren't like that
It’s just plain weird! Any sense of proportion or risk has just gone out of the window.

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Funny, I don't see any cheering. Quite the reverse - anger at the authorities at having let it get so bad that it's going to force us into more drastic action.
As much as I talk down the general risk posed by Covid, at the same time I wouldn’t want to get it and would feel awful were I to pass it on to anyone else. For this reason I am careful when meeting others, I use good hygiene, wash hands, avoid unnecessary contact (at the same time avoiding wearing a mask because they’re pointless ). This is because I feel responsible for my actions and wouldn’t blame the “authorities” were I to contact it.

It’s strange to me that this concept is so alien to many

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They will (or schools will be closed), just wait and see. Children above 6 are required to wear masks in Singapore and it works.
I’ll wait and see thanks, in the meantime I’d prefer for people not to spread scare stories about primary school children being forced to wear masks!
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  #14884  
Old 25.10.2020, 12:24
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Re: Coronavirus

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I’ll wait and see thanks, in the meantime I’d prefer for people not to spread scare stories about primary school children being forced to wear masks!
No-one spread any scare story about primary children being required to wear masks. They did point out that there is a significant risk that this will come which is not at all the same thing.

Given that this is happening in quite a few countries now including those bordering on Switzerland there must be a significant chance it will happen.

Not fear mongering, just realism.
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Old 25.10.2020, 12:34
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Re: Coronavirus

Taken from Pilatus Today

https://www.pilatustoday.ch/zentrals...ende-139586738

Der Kanton Schwyz ist besonders von der zweiten Welle der Coronavirus-Pandemie betroffen. Am Freitag kamen 105 Fälle von Infizierten (total 2066) dazu. Das Spital in Schwyz war ausgelastet und musste verschiedentlich Corona-Patienten an andere Zentralschweizer Spitäler abgeben.

Spital Schwyz was full on Friday and had to send their Corona patients to other Central Switzerland hospitals.
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  #14886  
Old 25.10.2020, 13:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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It’s just plain weird! Any sense of proportion or risk has just gone out of the window.

As much as I talk down the general risk posed by Covid, at the same time I wouldn’t want to get it and would feel awful were I to pass it on to anyone else. For this reason I am careful when meeting others, I use good hygiene, wash hands, avoid unnecessary contact (at the same time avoiding wearing a mask because they’re pointless ). This is because I feel responsible for my actions and wouldn’t blame the “authorities” were I to contact it.

It’s strange to me that this concept is so alien to many

I’ll wait and see thanks, in the meantime I’d prefer for people not to spread scare stories about primary school children being forced to wear masks!
And it's strange to some of us that YOU are unable to understand the importance of trying to help control the spread of this virus. You talk about a "sense of proportion or risk" and yet even now, with this second wave and such a dramatic increase in new infections being reported here each day as well as ICU beds becoming filled up, you are still suggesting that we essentially do nothing to try to get the situation under control.

You've repeatedly demonstrated that you ignore facts and evidence when presented to you and base your concept of reality around what you want to be true rather than what is true. (As an example, your recent statement that masks will never be required for primary school children here). You also recently tried to accuse me of lying about two people coughing near me in the grocery store. And these are just a few examples of the way your mind distorts reality to try to stroke your cognitive biases. So at what point would you be willing to admit that you're wrong?

You're going to be the guy standing there with people dying all around you but you're still holding up a sign claiming that masks are against your personal freedom.

I was researching about cognitive biases the other day and the various ways they manifest and came across this one, and I think it very much applies to you and your behavior here, particularly considering your repeated pattern of ignorance evidence and your inability to admit when you are proven wrong:

Backfire Effect:

When your core beliefs are challenged, it can cause you to believe even more strongly.

You also just claimed that other people don't take responsibility for their actions and would instead blame it on the government, unlike yourself. And yet here you are, adamantly expressing that restrictions are against your personal freedoms and essentially bragging about how stubborn you are in refusing to wear a mask to try to prevent inadvertently spreading the virus to others. Maybe it's you who needs to 'look in the mirror' and reassess your own ability to take responsibility for your own actions.
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Old 25.10.2020, 13:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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Taken from Pilatus Today

https://www.pilatustoday.ch/zentrals...ende-139586738

Der Kanton Schwyz ist besonders von der zweiten Welle der Coronavirus-Pandemie betroffen. Am Freitag kamen 105 Fälle von Infizierten (total 2066) dazu. Das Spital in Schwyz war ausgelastet und musste verschiedentlich Corona-Patienten an andere Zentralschweizer Spitäler abgeben.

Spital Schwyz was full on Friday and had to send their Corona patients to other Central Switzerland hospitals.
https://icumonitoring.ch/
The canton summary graphic (upper right corner) is pretty telling....
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  #14888  
Old 25.10.2020, 13:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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Belgium announced a loosening of coronavirus restrictions on Wednesday, despite the country's rising infection rate.

Face masks will only be mandatory in crowded places from October 1, the country's prime minister Sophie Wilmes said on Wednesday. Currently, the masks are required everywhere at all times.

The virus is not going away, but life must restart eventually."

https://www.euronews.com/2020/09/24/...tion-rate-rise
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Euronews just aired that Belgium has reached full hospital capacities.
That didn’t go so well then.
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  #14889  
Old 25.10.2020, 13:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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https://icumonitoring.ch/
The canton summary graphic (upper right corner) is pretty telling....
Thanks, interesting. Do you know whether this reflects standard number of beds or includes additional capacity?
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  #14890  
Old 25.10.2020, 13:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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https://icumonitoring.ch/
The canton summary graphic (upper right corner) is pretty telling....
Schwyz hasn't hit the red zone according to that chart. Unfortunately, the "hospital" option requires a password. But still.... very telling indeed.
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Old 25.10.2020, 13:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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https://icumonitoring.ch/
The canton summary graphic (upper right corner) is pretty telling....
It's scary to even think about what that's probably going to look like a few weeks from now.
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Old 25.10.2020, 13:16
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Re: Coronavirus

From the Netherlands...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1253465.html

"Flevohospital spokesman Peter Pels said flying patients across an international border was a last resort after other hospitals in the region around Almere said their intensive care units couldn't take them. The hospital was transferring two patients to Germany on Friday."

Last edited by Sigh; 25.10.2020 at 13:20. Reason: Added info
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  #14893  
Old 25.10.2020, 13:18
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Re: Coronavirus

Remember when the case numbers started to rise, the deniers said "it is not about cases, it is about hospitalizations"?
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  #14894  
Old 25.10.2020, 13:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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Thanks, interesting. Do you know whether this reflects standard number of beds or includes additional capacity?
No sorry, just came about the link in an article.
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  #14895  
Old 25.10.2020, 13:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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You're going to be the guy standing there with people dying all around you but you're still holding up a sign claiming that masks are against your personal freedom.
Correct use of masks is also important otherwise they are nothing more than a prop to get into shops. I see a lot of people fish out crumpled old paper masks that are well beyond usefulness. They probably only get another when the stench of stale spit is too much.
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Old 25.10.2020, 13:30
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Re: Coronavirus

One thing Switzerland is apparently not good at is "staying ahead of the game," as the saying goes.

They waited until they had their first cases here, brought in from Italy, to close the border, after having allowed all these Swiss families to travel there during Winter break in February. They just finally made masks mandatory here last week, across all of CH. And now they're running out of flu shots because they didn't prepare well enough for an increased demand.

They need to start building some field hospitals now, in my opinion. And whatever else. They shouldn't wait until it's so bad that they have no choice.

Last edited by Pancakes; 25.10.2020 at 13:44.
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Old 25.10.2020, 13:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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You are aware that the first wave curve is highly non-reflective of reality due to huge testing shortages?

Just look at the deaths. R isn't as high now as it was then. Yes death rates are lower now - but that shouldn't affect the steepness of the death curve, just it's height. To claim infection rates are the same then and now is at worst fake news and at best an inadequately close reading of the data.
What data sources are you using for your infection rate claims of "fake news"?

Here is the NHS report of Oct 23

Name:  londonOct25.jpg
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And here are April tables from

Name:  LondnApril.jpg
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Last edited by marton; 25.10.2020 at 13:56.
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Old 25.10.2020, 13:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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You had recently estimated real cases per day in Switzerland at 27000, assuming a factor of 4.5 over registered cases. In March we had max 1500 registered cases per day. So are you suggesting that the factor in March then was 18 or higher, if you state that current infection rates are lower than in March?

Testing is 3-4 times now what is was then. What makes me believe that infections are just as bad now, is the positivity rate. This is as high or even higher now, with 26% on Friday.
Agreed, the simplest way to roughly compare then and now is to compare the slopes of the seven-day average graphs of new cases; they are close to parallel.
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Old 25.10.2020, 13:46
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Re: Coronavirus

Please be sure to take your vitamin D, folks. <3 And be sure to have enough to last through the winter. I remember last Spring, some of the apothekes had run out of it. They had also run out of Dafalgan.
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Old 25.10.2020, 13:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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The Czech Republic's of this world who avoided the first wave are probably going to find it disproportionately hard over the winter.
Yes. What boggles my mind are Belgian numbers of positive tests (cca equal to Czech ones) but 10 000 deaths there. The Czechs are reaching 2000 now. There definitely are some differences in the way the pandemics is being approached and sick people redistributed. Or general health of people or different strains??

What bothers me more - Czech fab Sec of Health is being pushed out, by a set up scenario. He is an MD who cares for lives and has healthy economy on his agenda, too. He knows that resources mean accessible vax, etc. People trust him. People don't trust the head of the gov right now. So there is a lot of bad politics going on, opportunism, etc. Clipping potentially political wings of those who gain too much trust of people. Look at upheavals in Hungary now. And then why is China and Russia already vaxing their VIPs, for example...I read that this morning.

So, I hope things stay apolitical here, the way they have been. Kudos to people here who keep it that way.
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