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  #14901  
Old 25.10.2020, 13:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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Please be sure to take your vitamin D, folks. <3 And be sure to have enough to last through the winter. I remember last Spring, some of the apothekes had run out of it. They had also run out of Dafalgan.
Remember the daily recommended allowance (RDA) you need for your age bracket: For most healthy people, it’s 600 IU per day, but for people over age 70 who need a little more—it’s about 800 IU.
Check what is says on the label.

Excess vitamin D can be worse than too little.
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  #14902  
Old 25.10.2020, 13:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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Remember the daily recommended allowance (RDA) you need for your age bracket: For most healthy people, it’s 600 IU per day, but for people over age 70 who need a little more—it’s about 800 IU.
Check what is says on the label.

Excess vitamin D can be worse than too little.
True! I guess that's particularly if too much of it is taken over a period of time (or so I read recently at least). That's why I get mine checked every Autumn, so I know how much I need exactly, to bring my levels up to normal. And then I feel like Wonder Woman afterward.

Yesterday, I woke up feeling really achy for some reason (muscle aches). I know that's a sign of low D, so I took a higher dose of my vitamin D and noticed that an hour later, the aches were all gone and I was in an extremely good mood for some reason and had a lot of energy (more than normal). So I'm thinking my D might be low again. Definitely time to get it checked.

When my doctor has put me on high-dose vitamin D therapy in the past, I was told to stay on the high dose (.8 ml daily) for one month and then after that, take the normal dose of it -- 1 mL once per week (photo below). But I think the prescribed "therapie" kind is a different dose amount from what you can buy in the apothekes here, not sure.

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  #14903  
Old 25.10.2020, 13:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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And it's strange to some of us that YOU are unable to understand the importance of trying to help control the spread of this virus. You talk about a "sense of proportion or risk" and yet even now, with this second wave and such a dramatic increase in new infections being reported here each day as well as ICU beds becoming filled up, you are still suggesting that we essentially do nothing to try to get the situation under control.
You think masks and reducing gatherings from 15 to 5 or whatever will help in the current situation, really? The only thing that will help is avoiding social contact and keeping physical distance, which is what he mentioned and if you do that already, the use for a mask goes out the window.

I mean, at some point, I think some of you need to understand that we are battling NATURE. No amount of lenient measures and restrictions will really help 'control the spread of the virus'. They'll just make it so that we get a less drastic surge, which might save the ICUs for a little while, but they will get overwhelmed. And this is just the beginning. In the spring, we had the advantage of being a few weeks away from summer, but now we have winter coming.
Rules and measures are fine, but to think they will have a significant impact on the ICU situation is so naive. I mean, most people were very lax during the summer and nothing dramatic happened, now people are way more disciplined and we're in this mess. Yeah, I guess the entire continent universally decided to poke holes in their masks and secretly organise private parties in small homes?

There's just so much existential denial in some of the things I read from fearful people online, usually doomers, also on reddit. Denial of human mortality, fear of death, denial/taboos around mental health... We are sacrificing the MENTAL, physical, financial health, social cohesion of the ENTIRE population to save ourselves the hassle of accepting that humans are mortal and that poor lifestyle choices profoundly impact your health and that's why some people are suffering from this virus more.

It's a tough situation, I'm not sure what should be done but the relentless shaming of others as if everyone else is to blame (and as if they haven't sacrificed enough already) and the naive belief that cloths and hand gels will save us is nauseating. At least, shame people who aren't doing anything to improve their health despite all the free time we have on our hands.

I mean, really, we're doing all of this to save people from dying in the ICU but what about the (much younger) people who have ALREADY died by suicide because their lives have been ruined by the measures brought on by this crisis? We should include THEM in the Covid death numbers, too. That's where Sweden probably 'wins' because they've at least managed to maintain the mental health and social cohesion of their population.
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  #14904  
Old 25.10.2020, 14:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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You think masks and reducing gatherings from 15 to 5 or whatever will help in the current situation, really? The only thing that will help is avoiding social contact and keeping physical distance, which is what he mentioned and if you do that already, the use for a mask goes out the window.

I mean, at some point, I think some of you need to understand that we are battling NATURE. No amount of lenient measures and restrictions will really help 'control the spread of the virus'. They'll just make it so that we get a less drastic surge, which might save the ICUs for a little while, but they will get overwhelmed. And this is just the beginning. In the spring, we had the advantage of being a few weeks away from summer, but now we have winter coming.
Rules and measures are fine, but to think they will have a significant impact on the ICU situation is so naive. I mean, most people were very lax during the summer and nothing dramatic happened, now people are way more disciplined and we're in this mess. Yeah, I guess the entire continent universally decided to poke holes in their masks and secretly organise private parties in small homes?

There's just so much existential denial in some of the things I read from fearful people online, usually doomers, also on reddit. Denial of human mortality, fear of death, denial/taboos around mental health... We are sacrificing the MENTAL, physical, financial health, social cohesion of the ENTIRE population to save ourselves the hassle of accepting that humans are mortal and that poor lifestyle choices profoundly impact your health and that's why some people are suffering from this virus more.

It's a tough situation, I'm not sure what should be done but the relentless shaming of others as if everyone else is to blame (and as if they haven't sacrificed enough already) and the naive belief that cloths and hand gels will save us is nauseating. At least, shame people who aren't doing anything to improve their health despite all the free time we have on our hands.

I mean, really, we're doing all of this to save people from dying in the ICU but what about the (much younger) people who have ALREADY died by suicide because their lives have been ruined by the measures brought on by this crisis? We should include THEM in the Covid death numbers, too. That's where Sweden probably 'wins' because they've at least managed to maintain the mental health and social cohesion of their population.
There are so many faults in your mode of thinking that I don't even know where to begin...

1. You wrote: "You think masks and reducing gatherings from 15 to 5 or whatever will help in the current situation, really? The only thing that will help is avoiding social contact and keeping physical distance, which is what he mentioned and if you do that already, the use for a mask goes out the window."
You're seriously not able to comprehend the fact that keeping physical distance isn't always possible? e.g. Kids in school, on the bus, people in crowded grocery stores, etc.? Masks help especially when keeping a 2 meter (or whatever) distance isn't easy or possible. I was in a grocery store just last week and literally two people had walked very close to me, coughing. And the fact is, some people don't physically distance even when they're supposed to.

2. You wrote: "I mean, at some point, I think some of you need to understand that we are battling NATURE. "
Yes, indeed. We are battling nature. Just like we battle nature with cancer and kidney failure and how we battled nature with smallpox and measles. But we haven't just let those run their course without trying to take some measures to put it in check, have we?

3. You wrote: "I mean, really, we're doing all of this to save people from dying in the ICU but what about the (much younger) people who have ALREADY died by suicide because their lives have been ruined by the measures brought on by this crisis?
So are you implying that we should just let all the elderly people and people with high blood pressure, pregnant women and everyone else at a higher risk die without doing anything to try to prevent that from happening? If this virus mutates (and it's already beginning to show signs of doing precisely that), it could very well start killing off more and more young people anyways.

4. You have stated that wearing masks and the belief that such things will help is "nauseating." So, again, do you seriously think that we should just do absolutely nothing to try to help save lives and help prevent more people from contracting a virus that literally attacks their respiratory systems and can cause them to not be able to breathe?

Is that really what you want?

You think that this is just Nature doing its work and that lives shouldn't be saved and that we should not try to do everything possible to try to help control the spread of this virus, well then... If you do get the virus and require hospitalization, I think that you should decline any medical assistance, because you would be a hypocrite otherwise.
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  #14905  
Old 25.10.2020, 14:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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Why the hell did the government, etc. NOT prepare for this by ensuring that there are sufficient flu shots this year???
from other hand they bought hundred millions nonexisting covid-shots
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  #14906  
Old 25.10.2020, 14:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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And now they're running out of flu shots because they didn't prepare well enough for an increased demand.
That’s not strictly true. They ordered far more shots than the usually do way back before the summer but have not received all of them.

Switzerland was not the only place requesting extra supplies but the vaccine manufacturers can only do so much to ramp up production and they’re having a hard time keeping up with demand.
It’s not quite as simple as turning on a tap and filling bottles up with water, flu vaccines are still mostly produced using eggs and that takes time and effort. The gsk vaccine manufacturing plant in a Belgium is working to maximum capacity and it is still not enough to meet demand this year.
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  #14907  
Old 25.10.2020, 15:00
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Re: Coronavirus

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from other hand they bought hundred millions nonexisting covid-shots
I assume you're referring to this:

Switzerland pre-orders 4.5 million doses of Covid-19 vaccine
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/switzer...cine-/45953114

At least they're trying to be ahead of the game on that.
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  #14908  
Old 25.10.2020, 15:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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That’s not strictly true. They ordered far more shots than the usually do way back before the summer but have not received all of them.

Switzerland was not the only place requesting extra supplies but the vaccine manufacturers can only do so much to ramp up production and they’re having a hard time keeping up with demand.
It’s not quite as simple as turning on a tap and filling bottles up with water, flu vaccines are still mostly produced using eggs and that takes time and effort. The gsk vaccine manufacturing plant in a Belgium is working to maximum capacity and it is still not enough to meet demand this year.
Thanks. I wasn't exactly sure what the reason was behind the flu shot shortage here. But then when I learned that other countries are also experiencing shortages, I realized that Switzerland certainly isn't alone. The woman at the apotheke said yesterday they were hoping to get some in in December but she expressed that she was feeling doubtful about even that. I just find it upsetting that so many people (particularly the elderly) are going to have to go without flu shots for so long, I guess... and especially now.
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  #14909  
Old 25.10.2020, 15:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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from other hand they bought hundred millions nonexisting covid-shots
Yet another lie. It's a reservation of twice 4 or 5 million from two different suppliers. Nothing to do with the flu situation, not yet clear if that is a government screw up or that the manufacturers were unable to meet global demand.
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  #14910  
Old 25.10.2020, 15:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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I just find it upsetting that so many people (particularly the elderly) are going to have to go without flu shots for so long, I guess... and especially now.
They are prioritising the ‘at risk’ people so they should all get their shots first if they want them and then whatever is left will be given to the rest of the population.
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  #14911  
Old 25.10.2020, 15:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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So, again, do you seriously think that we should just do absolutely nothing to try to help save lives and help prevent more people from contracting a virus that literally attacks their respiratory systems and can cause them to not be able to breathe?

Is that really what you want?

You think that this is just Nature doing its work and that lives shouldn't be saved and that we should not try to do everything possible to try to help control the spread of this virus, well then... If you do get the virus and require hospitalization, I think that you should decline any medical assistance, because you would be a hypocrite otherwise.
Again with your inability to read and capture things thoroughly... I said:

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The only thing that will help is avoiding social contact and keeping physical distance
Schoolyards, crowded grocery stores, buses at rush hour can be avoided.
But no, you can't always do physical distancing (in work, or classes, and buses at rush hour), in that case a mask should be worn which I've mentioned countless times in this thread already.
Please, please, refer me to a point in my post where I said that 'absolutely nothing' should be done to prevent the spread. You won't find one. All I said is I think rules and measures help keep the rise moderate (but they don't seem to), and that whatever must happen will happen and I implied that some (a lot) of things are simply out of our control. Our efforts to protect the 'vulnerable' (I could also make the argument that children and teens are some of our most vulnerable citizens and they're paying the worst price for this crisis) are destroying our society.

You can prevent/delay developing cancer or any other disease, including severe Covid (or do your best at least) by exercising, eating well, sleeping enough, etc. Which most people can't be bothered to do. I never once mentioned cancers or even that Covid was nature doing its work, just that death was a part of life and that a lot of people struggle to accept that beyond 80-85, you don't have much more to live and making younger generations pay the price for however many years you can add up is disingenuous. Dying at 16 by suicide is significantly sadder than dying at 82 - you'd have to be insane to argue otherwise.

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So are you implying that we should just let all the elderly people and people with high blood pressure, pregnant women and everyone else at a higher risk die without doing anything to try to prevent that from happening? If this virus mutates (and it's already beginning to show signs of doing precisely that), it could very well start killing off more and more young people anyways.
Again, our efforts to protect the elderly are having a devastating cost to the rest of the population and the essence of society.

And I think you'll find a lot of people who have recovered from coronavirus (I can see the 'long-term effects' argument coming full speed) may have had high blood pressure, vitamin D deficiency, etc. I have a friend who tested positive and always struggled with low vitamin D in their life and they had mild symptoms. You seem to imply that anyone with any health struggle/imperfection will end up in an ICU struggling to breathe. Maybe you're projecting your fears onto everyone else.
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  #14912  
Old 25.10.2020, 15:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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Again with your inability to read and capture things thoroughly... I said:

Schoolyards, crowded grocery stores, buses at rush hour can be avoided.
But no, you can't always do physical distancing (in work, or classes, and buses at rush hour), in that case a mask should be worn which I've mentioned countless times in this thread already.
Please, please, refer me to a point in my post where I said that 'absolutely nothing' should be done to prevent the spread. You won't find one. All I said is I think rules and measures help keep the rise moderate (but they don't seem to), and that whatever must happen will happen and I implied that some (a lot) of things are simply out of our control. Our efforts to protect the 'vulnerable' (I could also make the argument that children and teens are some of our most vulnerable citizens and they're paying the worst price for this crisis) are destroying our society.

You can prevent/delay developing cancer or any other disease, including severe Covid (or do your best at least) by exercising, eating well, sleeping enough, etc. Which most people can't be bothered to do. I never once mentioned cancers or even that Covid was nature doing its work, just that death was a part of life and that a lot of people struggle to accept that beyond 80-85, you don't have much more to live and making younger generations pay the price for however many years you can add up is disingenuous. Dying at 16 by suicide is significantly sadder than dying at 82 - you'd have to be insane to argue otherwise.

Again, our efforts to protect the elderly are having a devastating cost to the rest of the population and the essence of society.

And I think you'll find a lot of people who have recovered from coronavirus (I can see the 'long-term effects' argument coming full speed) may have had high blood pressure, vitamin D deficiency, etc. I have a friend who tested positive and always struggled with low vitamin D in their life and they had mild symptoms. You seem to imply that anyone with any health struggle/imperfection will end up in an ICU struggling to breathe. Maybe you're projecting your fears onto everyone else.
No, you wrote that "the only thing that will help is avoiding social contact and keeping physical distance... etc." which I've marked in red in your quote below. You were essentially saying that masks are not necessary due to people physical distancing. I don't know how there is any other way to interpret it.

Also, no, schoolyards can't easily be avoided as long as kids have to go to school.

You just wrote above that "Our efforts to protect the 'vulnerable' (I could also make the argument that children and teens are some of our most vulnerable citizens and they're paying the worst price for this crisis) are destroying our society." And that this virus is just Nature at work. But then you later claim to not be implying that we shouldn't do everything we can to control the virus and protect the elderly, etc.

So yeah... Sorry, but I really don't know how else to interpret what you wrote, and/or at times even how to interpret you, because at this point much of what you've written just seems full of contradictions.

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You think masks and reducing gatherings from 15 to 5 or whatever will help in the current situation, really? The only thing that will help is avoiding social contact and keeping physical distance, which is what he mentioned and if you do that already, the use for a mask goes out the window.
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  #14913  
Old 25.10.2020, 15:24
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Re: Coronavirus

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I don't understand why anyone would think that herd immunity is possible with a virus that you can get more than once, due to losing antibodies after a few months. We've already seen cases where people have contracted the virus two times, and in one case, the guy had much worse symptoms the second time (requiring hospitalization even though he was only 25 years old).

And there is also this:

"To survive and escape the herd immunity, the virus may fight by gene mutation and then the original immune system won’t recognize the mutated virus and the herd immunity will thus be ineffective. In this case the viruses can be divided into two categories – DNA and RNA viruses. DNA viruses are stable with low possibility of mutation while RNA viruses are unstable and prone to mutate (Gelderblom, 1996). The SARS-CoV-2 is an RNA virus with a high potential risk of mutation (Phan, 2020)."

Source: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...20.547314/full
then vaccine will not work either
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  #14914  
Old 25.10.2020, 15:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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Here you can clearly see the rate of increase second wave in London is not so strong as the first
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You are aware that the first wave curve is highly non-reflective of reality due to huge testing shortages?

Just look at the deaths. R isn't as high now as it was then. Yes death rates are lower now - but that shouldn't affect the steepness of the death curve, just it's height. To claim infection rates are the same then and now is at worst fake news and at best an inadequately close reading of the data.
tired to repeat that waves are about deaths, not cases
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  #14915  
Old 25.10.2020, 15:38
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Re: Coronavirus

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Our efforts to protect the 'vulnerable' (I could also make the argument that children and teens are some of our most vulnerable citizens and they're paying the worst price for this crisis) are destroying our society.
Which I think is the reason canton decided to let the kids back to school tomorrow after their fall break. And why amateur sports for minors are allowed.

I do not think children spread viruses less than grown ups, tbh. But a long pause in the spring, then summer holidays...then fall break and potential lockdown, isn't something that makes kids so happy, in my experience. They need to feel the sense of some normalcy. Not prolonged periods of panic and anxiety. School makes stuff feel normal, even in masks.
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  #14916  
Old 25.10.2020, 15:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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Again, our efforts to protect the elderly are having a devastating cost to the rest of the population and the essence of society.

And I think you'll find a lot of people who have recovered from coronavirus (I can see the 'long-term effects' argument coming full speed) may have had high blood pressure, vitamin D deficiency, etc. I have a friend who tested positive and always struggled with low vitamin D in their life and they had mild symptoms. You seem to imply that anyone with any health struggle/imperfection will end up in an ICU struggling to breathe. Maybe you're projecting your fears onto everyone else.
Which is exactly why I asked you if you really want to just let the elderly die by not taking proper measures to try to protect them and control the virus (we're already beginning to see a lack of available ICU beds).

And yes, I'm sure there are plenty of people who have recovered from COVID despite having low vitamin D or high blood pressure, etc. But the fact is, studies have found a strong correlation between low vitamin D levels and higher death rates. So no, I wasn't projecting with my statement regarding vitamin D. It was a reflection of the studies and articles that I've read about it. For example:

Low vitamin D levels independently associated with severe COVID-19 cases, death
https://www.healio.com/news/endocrin...19-cases-death

More evidence on vitamin D deficiency and death rates from COVID-19
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20...-COVID-19.aspx

So maybe it was just you projecting your lack of knowledge.
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  #14917  
Old 25.10.2020, 15:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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Which I think is the reason canton decided to let the kids back to school tomorrow after their fall break. And why amateur sports for minors are allowed.

I do not think children spread viruses less than grown ups, tbh. But a long pause in the spring, then summer holidays...then fall break and potential lockdown, isn't something that makes kids so happy, in my experience. They need to feel the sense of some normalcy. Not prolonged periods of panic and anxiety. School makes stuff feel normal, even in masks.
If there was a bad outbreak of COVID at a primary school, would you then support the school being closed? Or rather, the kids having to do distance learning?
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Old 25.10.2020, 15:55
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Re: Coronavirus

This looks bleak. (20min.ch)

https://www.20min.ch/story/so-ueberr...a-654509343818

We gotta get through this. All of us.
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  #14919  
Old 25.10.2020, 16:39
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Re: Coronavirus

https://www.rts.ch/info/regions/gene...u-covid19.html

"To cope with the rapid increase in the number of patients with Covid-19, the University Hospitals of Geneva are appealing to their former employees. They thus anticipate a peak in hospitalizations which should exceed that of the spring.
In a press release published on Sunday, the institution indicates that it has set up an application system for medical, nursing and administrative staff"

"It is highly probable that the peak of the 550 positive Covid patients hospitalized that we recorded during the first wave will be largely exceeded in the coming days", explains Bertrand Levrat, director general of HUG, in the press release."

Last edited by Sigh; 25.10.2020 at 16:41. Reason: Added info
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Old 25.10.2020, 16:59
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
tired to repeat that waves are about deaths, not cases
I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

Quote:

"Second wave: A phenomenon of infections that can develop during a pandemic. The disease infects one group of people first. Infections appear to decrease. And then, infections increase in a different part of the population, resulting in a second wave of infections."

Source:
Medical Definition of Second wave
https://www.medicinenet.com/script/m...ticlekey=26442
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