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Old 26.10.2020, 15:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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The total numbers infected are probably several times higher. As in more than 2 and less than 10. My back of the envelope calculation based on deaths and working backwords came up with around 25,000 infections daily atm.

Presuming the infection lasts 14 days, a one week lag between infection and diagnosis and doubling every week that would mean around 1% of Swiss are currently infected. If you went to a wedding with 30 guests chances of someone being positive would then be around 1 in 4.

If you were in a big migros with 100 shoppers chances of someone being positive would be 2 in 3.

I'm a complete amateur (PhD scientist but not in this field) - but these figures seem to be in the ballpark of what professionals are suggesting in other similarly badly hit countries.
Just received an email from the University of Zürich about a COVID-19 project I am involved in that stated they have tested ca. 1,800 people for antibodies and so estimate 3% of the population of Canton Zürich have been infected this year.

The Swiss School of Public Health states other Cantons do such studies and more are planned (in English)
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  #15042  
Old 26.10.2020, 16:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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No, I said that more infections means more deaths
No point in digging yourself even further, you made a wrong statement, you corrected it afterwards, move on.

The below quote from you is factually wrong, as was pointed out to you numerous times already. "Adjusting" my reputation with red blobs doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.
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Also, yes, there is already some evidence emerging that the COVID virus is mutating to become more lethal
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Old 26.10.2020, 16:33
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Re: Coronavirus

Stocks of Covid vaccine to be delivered to London hospitals from next week with health chiefs on standby
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Old 26.10.2020, 16:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think I am going to stock up on food tomorrow and hibernate this winter! Yes, some toilet rolls too. Luckily I joined this forum, so I have an outlet compared to the previous lockdown when I was a bit cut off and posting on Swissinfo only!

Team Pancake and Team Tony C should keep us occupied and warm during the long winter months! I visited the hospital recently, and they had Covid-19 entrance stations, felt so surreal.

Hey, the reply frequency means we're fixed to a computer and not wandering in a shopping mall or having a few beers in a bar. congrats everyone for social distancing
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Old 26.10.2020, 16:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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No point in digging yourself even further, you made a wrong statement, you corrected it afterwards, move on.

The below quote from you is factually wrong, as was pointed out to you numerous times already. "Adjusting" my reputation with red blobs doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.
What do you NOT understand about my comment? Again, what I said exactly is that (quote) "Also, yes, there is already some evidence emerging that the COVID virus is mutating to become more lethal and more contagious (and let's face it, more infections translates to more deaths).

Why are you NOT able to understand the difference between what I wrote and saying that the virus IS more lethal? What I said is that there is already some evidence emerging that it is mutating to become more lethal."

Notice the word "become" in there. And then I explained why the virus mutating the way it appears to be can translate into it becoming more lethal.

I'm done with this conversation with you. You are accusing me of saying something that I in fact did not say simply due to your lack of proper reading comprehension skills, and THAT is why I gave you that rep. My initial intention was to simply leave the comment for you but the program forced me to either give you rep or take it away in order to do that.
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Old 26.10.2020, 16:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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Hey, the reply frequency means we're fixed to a computer and not wandering in a shopping mall or having a few beers in a bar. congrats everyone for social distancing
Where's the line between social and asocial distancing? From what I see here there are a few proponents of anti social distancing.

https://www.facebook.com/redpenblack...type=3&theater

It's a FB link I'm very sorry, I tried to attach it as an image but it's huge.

Last edited by Ato; 26.10.2020 at 16:50. Reason: Oh god it's huge, how do I resize it?
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Old 26.10.2020, 16:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think I am going to stock up on food tomorrow and hibernate this winter! Yes, some toilet rolls too. Luckily I joined this forum, so I have an outlet compared to the previous lockdown when I was a bit cut off and posting on Swissinfo only!

Team Pancake and Team Tony C should keep us occupied and warm during the long winter months! I visited the hospital recently, and they had Covid-19 entrance stations, felt so surreal.
LOL. Honestly, I'm on the verge of trying to force myself to no longer be active on this forum. So much of it is just a waste of time and energy, and I'm not sure the frustrations and annoyance are worth it. Someone messaged me through here earlier and mentioned that they (quote) "don't have the patience to keep refuting their nonsense." And I completely understand what she means.
I should really just use the block feature more than I have been, because it's pretty pointless to argue in circles with people who constantly misinterpret you and won't change their minds or admit that they're wrong no matter what, anyways.

On that note...

Denialism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denialism

In the psychology of human behavior, denialism is a person's choice to deny reality as a way to avoid a psychologically uncomfortable truth.[1] Denialism is an essentially irrational action that withholds the validation of a historical experience or event, when a person refuses to accept an empirically verifiable reality.[2]

In the sciences, denialism is the rejection of basic facts and concepts that are undisputed, well-supported parts of the scientific consensus on a subject, in favor of radical and controversial ideas.[3]

The motivations and causes of denialism include religion, self-interest (economic, political, or financial), and defence mechanisms meant to protect the psyche of the denialist against mentally disturbing facts and ideas.[8][9]
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Old 26.10.2020, 16:53
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Re: Coronavirus

Coop and Migros online shops are running out of available slots again. The next available slot for our region is in 4 days in Coop and in 10 days in Migros. And Coop's website is sooooo slow that I hardly completed an order. A good news is that a 30-rolls pack of toilet paper is 40% off, but I expect I might get a message on the delivery day that the item is unavailable.
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Old 26.10.2020, 16:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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"Also, yes, there is already some evidence emerging that the COVID virus is mutating to become more lethal
There is no such evidence. You are confusing incremental growth and growth rate we've provided a few links earlier to studies confirming this. Your alarmism and sense of superiority doesn't change the fact that you're wrong. Again. Drop it, it makes you look not only wrong, but also arrogant and stubborn. Bad combo
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  #15050  
Old 26.10.2020, 17:02
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Re: Coronavirus

For those who are totally against a lockdown, what do you propose?

It is obvious that we cannot count on the public to be disciplined and stop activities that will spread the virus. At this rate, hospitals are already overflowing and it will only get much much worse if everything remains as is.

For those who say "but Sweden"... do you realize that Switzerland has been far more lenient than Sweden since the Summer?
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Old 26.10.2020, 17:16
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Re: Coronavirus

Can children attend school if one of the parents is Covid positive? I couldn't find any information on this.
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  #15052  
Old 26.10.2020, 17:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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For those who are totally against a lockdown, what do you propose?

It is obvious that we cannot count on the public to be disciplined and stop activities that will spread the virus. At this rate, hospitals are already overflowing and it will only get much much worse if everything remains as is.

For those who say "but Sweden"... do you realize that Switzerland has been far more lenient than Sweden since the Summer?
Shutting bars? Possibly restaurants? Secondary schools WFH if we absolutely have to for a short period? Are we still allowed to visit other's homes? If so that should be stopped too.

The term "lockdown" is obviously pretty unclear. What I don't want to happen is "non-essential shops" shutting. I highly doubt that causes significant infections.

I also don't want to see primary school kids not at school regardless of the impact on virus transmission.
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Old 26.10.2020, 17:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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Can children attend school if one of the parents is Covid positive? I couldn't find any information on this.
Schools aren't allowed to send children into quarantine. The decision is made by the cantonal authorities and is on a case to case basis.
Most likely, the child will have to isolate, too and practice distance learning.
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Old 26.10.2020, 17:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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Coop and Migros online shops are running out of available slots again. The next available slot for our region is in 4 days in Coop and in 10 days in Migros. And Coop's website is sooooo slow that I hardly completed an order. A good news is that a 30-rolls pack of toilet paper is 40% off, but I expect I might get a message on the delivery day that the item is unavailable.

I have taken care of that by purchasing a pallet of TP this summer, stored it everywhere around my house, under the tables, behind and on the sofa etc. My family is ready for rough winter!
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Old 26.10.2020, 17:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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Shutting bars? Possibly restaurants? Secondary schools WFH if we absolutely have to?

Are we still allowed to visit other's homes? If so that should be stopped too.

The term "lockdown" is obviously pretty unclear. What I don't want to happen is "non-essential shops" shutting. I highly doubt that causes significant infections. I also don't want to see primary school kids not at school regardless of the impact on virus transmission.
That seems perfectly reasonable ... the problem with "non-essential shops" is that if you live in the city center, you will still see the droves of crowds that visit on the weekends to do their shopping...especially with the upcoming Christmas season. If restaurants, cafes and bars are simultaneously shut, perhaps the crowds will reduce...but I believe that is where the issue lies with keeping them open.

I don't have children, but I work with many parents and they are always getting sick from their kids and then passing it on to us. Is the same thing happening with COVID-19? Kids can't practice social distancing... it just simply isn't possible.

It is a terrible situation and I am genuinely saddened by the economic & social impact this virus causes. I just don't know what else we can do...
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Old 26.10.2020, 17:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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Can children attend school if one of the parents is Covid positive? I couldn't find any information on this.
If the parent is properly self-isolating or the child has had contact with them.

pdf file is in this link...

'You have been in close contact with someone who has been confirmed in a laboratory test to have the new coronavirus. Close contact means that you have been within 1.5 metres of a per son who is infected for more than 15 minutes without any form of protection (face mask or a physical barrier like a Plexiglas wall). If this person was infectious at the time1, you must spend 10 days at home in quarantine.'
https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...tml#-880800097
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Old 26.10.2020, 17:30
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Re: Coronavirus

"4.45 p.m.: Ticino government makes it mandatory to wear a mask outdoors
In Ticino, it is mandatory to wear a mask outdoors from Tuesday if the minimum distance to other people cannot be maintained. With these and other measures, the Ticino government tightened the measures to combat the spread of the coronavirus on Monday afternoon"

https://www.bluewin.ch/de/news/schwe...he-453797.html
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Old 26.10.2020, 17:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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"4.45 p.m.: Ticino government makes it mandatory to wear a mask outdoors
In Ticino, it is mandatory to wear a mask outdoors from Tuesday if the minimum distance to other people cannot be maintained. With these and other measures, the Ticino government tightened the measures to combat the spread of the coronavirus on Monday afternoon"

https://www.bluewin.ch/de/news/schwe...he-453797.html
In Malta it's been required for the last week to wear mask when outside your home unless doing active sport or smoking. Even multiple people in cars are supposed to wear masks €100 fines being issued.
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Old 26.10.2020, 17:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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In Malta it's been required for the last week to wear mask when outside your home unless doing active sport or smoking. Even multiple people in cars are supposed to wear masks €100 fines being issued.
I'm not sure that's giving people good incentives...
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Old 26.10.2020, 17:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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Shutting bars? Possibly restaurants? Secondary schools WFH if we absolutely have to for a short period? Are we still allowed to visit other's homes? If so that should be stopped too.

The term "lockdown" is obviously pretty unclear. What I don't want to happen is "non-essential shops" shutting. I highly doubt that causes significant infections.

I also don't want to see primary school kids not at school regardless of the impact on virus transmission.
I would agree with this. The main requirement for this to work though would be for people to not meet other people (or at least to a very much reduced extend). And this is where I so far see no evidence, very different from spring when everybody was scared. Today I see laziness, ignorance and fatigue.
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