Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #15081  
Old 26.10.2020, 21:07
Belgianmum's Avatar
Roastbeef & Yorkshire mod
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 13,147
Groaned at 236 Times in 198 Posts
Thanked 21,897 Times in 8,951 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Maybe time to stop nit-picking here and stop personal attacks and/or picking on semantics??
Thank you!
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Belgianmum for this useful post:
  #15082  
Old 26.10.2020, 21:08
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,148
Groaned at 511 Times in 434 Posts
Thanked 20,073 Times in 10,576 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Right back at you! How long should we go into lockdown for? A week? A month? 3 months? Until May next year? And then what? Wait for the numbers to rise again and then return to lockdown? Hope that a vaccine proves effective?

I propose that governments stop just focusing on the virus in their response and look at the bigger picture. Instead of just displaying graphs with the Covid infection rate, or hospitalisations or deaths, how about they display a few graphs with the health problems created by lockdown? Or showing the effect of lockdown on the economy and the implications of that?

This shouldn't be about saving Covid lives, it should be about saving lives PERIOD. This means having competent people in charge who are able to balance the risks. This is why Sweden is leading the world in their response.



If this totally idiotic proposal finds its way to the rest of Switzerland, it will really be the time to stop going along with this charade because it makes people suckered in by Covid propaganda feel more comfortable and outright not comply with it. I simply won't do it!
Again
The Swedish COVID-19 Response Is a Disaster.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #15083  
Old 26.10.2020, 21:43
Talk to you later's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,563
Groaned at 71 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 2,923 Times in 1,058 Posts
Talk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Canada
Reply With Quote
  #15084  
Old 26.10.2020, 22:44
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 785
Groaned at 55 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 933 Times in 436 Posts
vladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

i'm right now in the center of "disaster" and dont see any disaster so far
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank vladest for this useful post:
  #15085  
Old 26.10.2020, 22:52
V__'s Avatar
V__ V__ is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 1,511
Groaned at 384 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 2,082 Times in 866 Posts
V__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Very interesting article in Dutch newspaper. Apparantly the Infection Fatality Rate for the second wave hitting the Netherlands is well below the 2017-2018 flu season

The great danger of a complete lockdown

"According to the RIVM report, about 25 people per day from / with COVID-19 would have died in the past week.

That gives us the two components to calculate the Infection Fatality Rate (IFR). That is, the number of people divided by the number of people who are infected. The calculation is 25/15000 = 0.17 percent. (Two out of three deaths involve people over the age of 80. More than half of those who died lived in health care facilities).

In 2017-2018, about 10,000 people died from the flu. We don't know exactly how many people were infected then. Even if it had been four million (which is a high estimate), the IFR was 0.25 percent at the time.

Osterhaus who says that a complete lockdown is inevitable and then we better do it now. One completely ignores all the damage one is doing because of this and that lockdown will increase exponentially.

One day we will wake up from this collective fear psychosis and wonder what have we done to ourselves and our country? And how could our media fail like that? Why have we not succeeded in pursuing an intelligent policy in which ALL risks we run have been properly weighed up? How come we allow ourselves to be dragged along by bad data, primitive fears and unrealistic wishful thinking?"
__________________
"FAQ is not binding."
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank V__ for this useful post:
  #15086  
Old 26.10.2020, 23:04
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Very interesting article in Dutch newspaper. Apparantly the Infection Fatality Rate for the second wave hitting the Netherlands is well below the 2017-2018 flu season

The great danger of a complete lockdown

"According to the RIVM report, about 25 people per day from / with COVID-19 would have died in the past week.

That gives us the two components to calculate the Infection Fatality Rate (IFR). That is, the number of people divided by the number of people who are infected. The calculation is 25/15000 = 0.17 percent. (Two out of three deaths involve people over the age of 80. More than half of those who died lived in health care facilities).

In 2017-2018, about 10,000 people died from the flu. We don't know exactly how many people were infected then. Even if it had been four million (which is a high estimate), the IFR was 0.25 percent at the time.

Osterhaus who says that a complete lockdown is inevitable and then we better do it now. One completely ignores all the damage one is doing because of this and that lockdown will increase exponentially.

One day we will wake up from this collective fear psychosis and wonder what have we done to ourselves and our country? And how could our media fail like that? Why have we not succeeded in pursuing an intelligent policy in which ALL risks we run have been properly weighed up? How come we allow ourselves to be dragged along by bad data, primitive fears and unrealistic wishful thinking?"
Excepting that the current 7 day average is 42 not 25 and given time from infection to death is around 4 to 5 weeks you need to compare to the rate of infections from mid September. Which was about 1,500 a day.. Now rework the numbers.

All still largely irrelevant. The fact is the hospitals in the Netherlands are also pretty well at capacity. People are going to start dying in much larger numbers once they canot be treated, whether that be from Covid or something else but can't get hoispital treatment because there is no further capacity.

Last edited by baboon; 27.10.2020 at 07:28.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #15087  
Old 26.10.2020, 23:06
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
If this totally idiotic proposal finds its way to the rest of Switzerland, it will really be the time to stop going along with this charade because it makes people suckered in by Covid propaganda feel more comfortable and outright not comply with it. I simply won't do it!
Then I look forward to your posts complaining about your fines. Because this is also on the Berset list of measures.

As with Ticino, only where distancing cannot be ensured. Markets, queues, etc. Makes sense.

Quote:
View Post
i'm right now in the center of "disaster" and dont see any disaster so far
Try looking.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #15088  
Old 27.10.2020, 02:05
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 4,112
Groaned at 122 Times in 106 Posts
Thanked 11,014 Times in 4,834 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I propose that governments stop just focusing on the virus in their response and look at the bigger picture. Instead of just displaying graphs with the Covid infection rate, or hospitalisations or deaths, how about they display a few graphs with the health problems created by lockdown?
It's not lockdown creating health problems. Covid-19 is the cause and lockdown is one of the effects. If hospital beds are full of patients fighting covid, and hospital staff are off work ill or in quarantine, the impact on health care is a knock on effect, but make no mistake what the actual cause is.

Quote:
View Post
If this totally idiotic proposal finds its way to the rest of Switzerland, it will really be the time to stop going along with this charade because it makes people suckered in by Covid propaganda feel more comfortable and outright not comply with it. I simply won't do it!
Reply With Quote
The following 12 users would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #15089  
Old 27.10.2020, 02:10
robogobo's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Horw (LU)
Posts: 504
Groaned at 76 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 414 Times in 216 Posts
robogobo has a reputation beyond reputerobogobo has a reputation beyond reputerobogobo has a reputation beyond reputerobogobo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
It's not lockdown creating health problems. Covid-19 is the cause and lockdown is one of the effects. If hospital beds are full of patients fighting covid, and hospital staff are off work ill or in quarantine, the impact on health care is a knock on effect, but make no mistake what the actual cause is.

If there were ever someone with deaf ears to such airtight logic, it's Tony Clifton.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank robogobo for this useful post:
  #15090  
Old 27.10.2020, 07:34
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Another blow for natural herd immunity...:

Quote:
Proportion of people in England with Covid antibodies has fallen, study says
Figure has dropped by over a quarter in three months, fuelling concerns over reinfection
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...len-study-says
Reply With Quote
  #15091  
Old 27.10.2020, 08:04
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,676
Groaned at 589 Times in 336 Posts
Thanked 4,106 Times in 1,724 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Then I look forward to your posts complaining about your fines. Because this is also on the Berset list of measures.

As with Ticino, only where distancing cannot be ensured. Markets, queues, etc. Makes sense.
It makes absolutely no sense. All the evidence, as weak as is, has shown that masks may only have a minor effect in small enclosed areas.

Fortunately, as with the ridiculous quarantine regulations, this will also be unenforceable, so you needn't worry about me complaining about getting fined! If this does indeed come into force tomorrow, I actually see it as a moral obligation to disregard it. Compliance is basically an endorsement of this lunacy

Quote:
View Post
It's not lockdown creating health problems. Covid-19 is the cause and lockdown is one of the effects. If hospital beds are full of patients fighting covid, and hospital staff are off work ill or in quarantine, the impact on health care is a knock on effect, but make no mistake what the actual cause is.
I suggest you go and read the Sunday Times investigation I posted a few pages back and you'll find that your assessment is wildly inaccurate. UK data has shown that the NHS was never overrun, in fact it never even came close to being at capacity throughout the crisis, it had in fact far more empty beds than normal.

Routine operations were postponed, the number of new patients presenting themselves disintegrated (both at GPs and A&E), even when there was more capacity than normal! The collapse in non-Covid healthcare is a scandal!

I'm sure you'll be telling us next the increase in dementia deaths, depression and suicides is also a knock on effect of Covid and not due to lockdown
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at TonyClifton for this post:
  #15092  
Old 27.10.2020, 08:05
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 785
Groaned at 55 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 933 Times in 436 Posts
vladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Try looking.
again, senseless slogans
try looking, try hearing, try eating etc
why I should try looking better sitting in Goteborg, looking at swedish "disaster", then you, reading sitting in CH or guys in Australia?
what the point?
I can see people in shop, on streets w/o masks, keeping social distance, disinfecting their hands. they are all doing it but w/o hysteria (yes! its posssible!)
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank vladest for this useful post:
  #15093  
Old 27.10.2020, 08:08
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 10,849
Groaned at 346 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 15,882 Times in 8,108 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Drop it, it makes you look not only wrong, but also arrogant and stubborn. Bad combo
Lol, the pot calling the kettle. Seriously, you too drop it, nobody (apart from you, TC and probably MC) is interested in this "fight".
The situation is not getting any better and I think many of us are simply tired to still see people arguing over things that no-one has a clear picture of. Not even the experts we keep quoting here, there are still a lot of things about this new coronavirus that are too little or not yet known.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #15094  
Old 27.10.2020, 08:09
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 785
Groaned at 55 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 933 Times in 436 Posts
vladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Another blow for natural herd immunity...:



https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...len-study-says
Quote:
But she said the new results do not necessarily mean that immunity arising from vaccination would be short-lived. “A good vaccine may well be better than natural immunity.”
waiting for magic vaccine, which will somehow create herd immunity (which doesnt works)?
good luck with that
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank vladest for this useful post:
  #15095  
Old 27.10.2020, 08:14
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,676
Groaned at 589 Times in 336 Posts
Thanked 4,106 Times in 1,724 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
again, senseless slogans
try looking, try hearing, try eating etc
why I should try looking better sitting in Goteborg, looking at swedish "disaster", then you, reading sitting in CH or guys in Australia?
what the point?
I can see people in shop, on streets w/o masks, keeping social distance, disinfecting their hands. they are all doing it but w/o hysteria (yes! its posssible!)
What's strange in this pandemic in Sweden was how Goteborg was hardly affected at all by Covid when compared to Stockholm. Maybe because the fairly regular grenade attacks there keep everyone indoors at night!
Reply With Quote
This user groans at TonyClifton for this post:
  #15096  
Old 27.10.2020, 08:26
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 10,849
Groaned at 346 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 15,882 Times in 8,108 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
It makes absolutely no sense. All the evidence, as weak as is, has shown that masks may only have a minor effect in small enclosed areas.

Fortunately, as with the ridiculous quarantine regulations, this will also be unenforceable, so you needn't worry about me complaining about getting fined! If this does indeed come into force tomorrow, I actually see it as a moral obligation to disregard it. Compliance is basically an endorsement of this lunacy
We had no doubts that this is gonna be your "strategy".... I really hope you don't live in CH at least.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #15097  
Old 27.10.2020, 08:32
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
waiting for magic vaccine, which will somehow create herd immunity (which doesnt works)?
good luck with that
Alternatively go and gain a little scientific knowledge, read up on the approaches being taken by some of the vaccines and you might understand why this us possible.

Although looking at your posts perhaps not.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #15098  
Old 27.10.2020, 08:33
Sean Connery's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 5,565
Groaned at 58 Times in 54 Posts
Thanked 7,554 Times in 3,388 Posts
Sean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

The truth is that we don't know why the spread appears worse in certain demographics. Some controls that work in one location may not work in another.

Masks are a basic, barely-effective control but may stop some cases. But they help a little and get people into the habit of being more careful. I have been washing my hands as soon as I get home, before eating and just regularly for many years. I've also been avoiding touching what everyone else touches. But there are people who don't do that and there are people who might just decide to sneeze or cough in an enclosed space with you in it - a mask gives you a good barrier and a little time to get out of there.

I can say that I don't really know many people personally who've had it but there is enough evidence to clearly demonstrate that a) there are more people with it that we should feel comfortable with and b) we need to act together as a society and maybe suck it up in the short term that our social freedom is impacted.
Reply With Quote
The following 10 users would like to thank Sean Connery for this useful post:
  #15099  
Old 27.10.2020, 08:41
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 1,091
Groaned at 164 Times in 111 Posts
Thanked 2,920 Times in 1,062 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I can say that I don't really know many people personally who've had it but there is enough evidence to clearly demonstrate that a) there are more people with it that we should feel comfortable with and b) we need to act together as a society and maybe suck it up in the short term that our social freedom is impacted.
Whatever needs to be done to avoid another lockdown needs to be done. Wearing a mask is not solving the problem, clearly, but slows down the spread and nobody is suggesting that masks ONLY are the solution, it's just part of it.

You've all seen the WWII posters boosting morale of the population? They should create something similar now, something like:

Wear your mask, so the virus doesn't wear you

If you're ugly and you know...wear your mask! (ok, that's for me specifically! )

Lockdown? No, Mask-on!
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
  #15100  
Old 27.10.2020, 08:55
Sean Connery's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 5,565
Groaned at 58 Times in 54 Posts
Thanked 7,554 Times in 3,388 Posts
Sean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Whatever needs to be done to avoid another lockdown needs to be done.
Maybe that ship has sailed?

The issue isn't around the number of infections in my opinion per say, it's to do with the fact that our health care system cannot handle the volume of cases needing urgent or intensive care.

The army might be able to throw up some wards in sports halls, for example, but the certification for ICU and the staff to operate those facilities are in short, tired supply.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Sean Connery for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
cold, corona, coronavirus, covid, covid-19, flu, health, medical, virus




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 11 (0 members and 11 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coronavirus Jokes makeabigwish Daily life 258 19.10.2021 05:45
Coronavirus closed janvier Forum support 18 01.11.2020 13:12
Paid holidays and coronavirus Curtiss Employment 2 20.04.2020 09:22
Coronavirus scammers are out there - be warned Medea Fleecestealer Daily life 9 18.04.2020 18:53
Leaving Switzerland for UK during coronavirus barkingtreewolf Leaving Switzerland 19 11.04.2020 11:45


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:16.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0