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Old 28.10.2020, 09:44
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Re: Coronavirus

Many of us see the disaster looming that you do dear Pancakes...and I think that the government does too, but have decided to go with the "Some of you will live, some of you will die" methodology rather than let the economy slip further into decline.

I think we all have to take our health in our own hands now if we are lucky enough to be able to...it is a very sad reality.

Stay safe y'all.
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Old 28.10.2020, 09:56
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Re: Coronavirus

Well, I guess it's just my opinion, but I don't think it's logical to wait until "the shit hits the fan" to try to stop the shit from hitting the fan.

Maybe more people will stop prioritizing the economy over people's lives only when it's they themselves -- or someone they love -- who is forced to suffocate because there are no ventilators or ICU beds.

I will be surprised, though, if a full lockdown is announced today... in part because CH seems to wait until all its neighboring countries do something and then for CH to follow. At least it seems it went that way last time. I suspect that they will first announce stricter curfews and limits regarding groups of people, etc.
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Old 28.10.2020, 10:00
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Re: Coronavirus

It has been made abundantly clear that the advice of the National COVID-19 Science Task Force is listened to intently by the federal authorities, with a lot of head nodding, taken under advisement, and with a clear conscience, they gently encourage the cantonal authorities to take responsibility and do more.

After the criticisms of March, the federal leadership seem to think it would be political suicide to declare an "extraordinary situation" again, until it is is clear to everyone and they are begging for their intervention, lest they be accused of undermining the federation, usurping executive powers and being blamed for the economy.
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  #15204  
Old 28.10.2020, 10:09
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Re: Coronavirus

Vaccines just take a long time to develop
Quote:
Pfizer’s admission Tuesday that it still doesn’t know whether its coronavirus vaccine works is a dose of reality for the historic global vaccine race.

The company’s failure to meet its self-imposed goal — having proof of efficacy in October — is the latest reminder that vaccine development is a long, complicated process that doesn’t stick to political deadlines.

Pfizer, a Trump favorite, held out hope that it would know this month whether its shot worked. That is now all but impossible.
Source

In August, Russian state media rolled out the red carpet for a bombshell announcement -- President Vladimir Putin, from his residence outside Moscow, unveiled what he said was the world's first registered coronavirus vaccine, meant to bring Russia closer to the end of a devastating pandemic.

Now we have Russia reporting record numbers of COVID deaths.

Whether this means the vaccine does not work, or they have been unable to produce it in massive quantities or they are going slow because of doubts about the safety is not known due to typical Russian secrecy.
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  #15205  
Old 28.10.2020, 10:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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Whether this means the vaccine does not work, or they have been unable to produce it in massive quantities or they are going slow because of doubts about the safety is not known due to typical Russian secrecy.
I trust that Russian scientists would be able to develop a vaccine...but the ability to roll it out to the massive population in such a short time isn't plausible.

I would be surprised that Russia would ever report accurate infection numbers...
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  #15206  
Old 28.10.2020, 10:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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Many of us see the disaster looming that you do dear Pancakes...and I think that the government does too, but have decided to go with the "Some of you will live, some of you will die" methodology rather than let the economy slip further into decline.

I think we all have to take our health in our own hands now if we are lucky enough to be able to...it is a very sad reality.

Stay safe y'all.
We can to a very large extent control this ourselves .. We can't completely rely on the government to fix it.

We should all take our health into our own hands, just like crossing the street, you take due care.

Ultimately much of it is up to us, if the beauty salon is open you don't need to go, you can choose not to.. You can choose to go to a less busy shop or get a delivery etc.

Of course there are people stuck on the front line and those that need to use public transport etc.. But maybe if the rest of us made some good choices.. it would help.
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  #15207  
Old 28.10.2020, 10:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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Ski areas demand tough measures
"The corona pandemic is likely to slow down Swiss tourism once again in the winter season. The economic research institute KOF estimates that overnight stays will decrease by 30 percent. Overall, the industry must expect a loss of over CHF 10 billion in 2020.

Quarantine regulations should also keep foreign guests away from Switzerland over the winter. On the other hand, there is hope that residents will close at least part of this gap and increasingly flock to the ski areas. The winter sports regions are therefore calling for tough measures to quickly reduce the number of cases. If strict measures were implemented now, the number of cases could perhaps normalize again for Christmas business, which is the great hope of many mountain railways."
source
I guess skiing itself isn't really a risk, even the lifts can be organised so that people are only travelling on them in their "bubble". That's how they were used over the summer at least wherever I went. Après Ski on the other hand... thanks Ischgl!!!
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Old 28.10.2020, 10:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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I guess skiing itself isn't really a risk, even the lifts can be organised so that people are only travelling on them in their "bubble". That's how they were used over the summer at least wherever I went. Après Ski on the other hand... thanks Ischgl!!!
Skiing *should* be great this year.. Hardly any tourists!!

Fingers crossed but I'm not buying any passes yet
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  #15209  
Old 28.10.2020, 10:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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We can to a very large extent control this ourselves .. We can't completely rely on the government to fix it.

We should all take our health into our own hands, just like crossing the street, you take due care.

Ultimately much of it is up to us, if the beauty salon is open you don't need to go, you can choose not to.. You can choose to go to a less busy shop or get a delivery etc.

Of course there are people stuck on the front line and those that need to use public transport etc.. But maybe if the rest of us made some good choices.. it would help.
I agree, but I think part of the problem with that is that there are just too many apathetic and careless people who are unwilling to adjust their behavior and patterns for the sake of the greater good, etc.

We've already seen some of that demonstrated here -- people claiming that they refuse to wear a mask, etc.

And I know that some groups and organizations are refusing to close and cancel their get-togethers unless they are forced to. My son belongs to one such group, and we had to tell them recently that our son will not longer be going. We're still surprised that they haven't cancelled their meet-ups, to be honest.
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  #15210  
Old 28.10.2020, 10:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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I agree, but I think part of the problem with that is that there are just too many apathetic and careless people who are unwilling to adjust their patterns for the sake of the greater good, etc.

We've already seen some of that demonstrated here -- people claiming that they refuse to wear a mask, etc.

And I know that some groups and organizations are refusing to close and cancel their get-togethers unless they are forced to. My son belongs to one such group, and we had to tell them recently that our son will not longer be going. We're still surprised that they haven't cancelled their meet-ups, to be honest.
Anyone who thinks you can rely on the general masses to behave sensibly and responsibly to the point of controlling a pandemic is delusional. Hard rules that are enforced are the only way to get people to (for the most part) do what you want them to do when it comes to situations like this where the risks of a situation are not obvious or even visible to many people and their urge to 'carry on as normal' and let their guard down is strong.
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  #15211  
Old 28.10.2020, 10:36
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Re: Coronavirus

Konstanz- is the border crossing closed?( from zurich travelling to Konstanz by train)
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  #15212  
Old 28.10.2020, 10:36
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Re: Coronavirus

So whilst New Scientist is publishing articles titled "The Herd Immunity Myth – why let it rip arguments are fatally flawed", and Nature "The false promise of herd immunity”, there are scientists in South Africa who believe herd immunity may have already been achieved.

That Covid has politicised science in such a way that once respected scientific magazines and journals are now abandoning scientific rigour in order to stick to a political narrative should be deeply concerning for all.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...unity-12116494
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  #15213  
Old 28.10.2020, 10:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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We can to a very large extent control this ourselves .. We can't completely rely on the government to fix it.

We should all take our health into our own hands, just like crossing the street, you take due care.

Ultimately much of it is up to us, if the beauty salon is open you don't need to go, you can choose not to.. You can choose to go to a less busy shop or get a delivery etc.

Of course there are people stuck on the front line and those that need to use public transport etc.. But maybe if the rest of us made some good choices.. it would help.
Yeah, and we can see ourselves how that worked out... You can take care of yourself but if your kids go to school or in any other community you're pretty much out of any control.
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  #15214  
Old 28.10.2020, 10:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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Konstanz- is the border crossing closed?( from zurich travelling to Konstanz by train)
No!
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  #15215  
Old 28.10.2020, 10:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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there are scientists in South Africa who believe herd immunity may have already been achieved.
It's summer now down there and if you remember summer here was also deceptively calm. I'm just speculating that the statement from the South African scientists is probably not very applicable to the situation in Europe right now and whether herd immunity is achievable or not, is one of the biggest unknowns. I posted an article a few pages back about immunity being lost within 3 months, but stays much longer with medical staff suggesting that controlled and balanced exposure to the virus leads to longer lasting immunity
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Old 28.10.2020, 10:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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So whilst New Scientist is publishing articles titled "The Herd Immunity Myth – why let it rip arguments are fatally flawed", and Nature "The false promise of herd immunity”, there are scientists in South Africa who believe herd immunity may have already been achieved.

That Covid has politicised science in such a way that once respected scientific magazines and journals are now abandoning scientific rigour in order to stick to a political narrative should be deeply concerning for all.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...unity-12116494
From your link;
Professor Shabir Mahdi told Sky News that he believed the coronavirus had stimulated a level of immunity in approximately 12 to 15 million people.

The population of South Africa is 58 million.

The best case is 25.8% have immunity.

Minimum population percentage for covid herd immunity is70%.

Do tell us again about scientific rigour
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Old 28.10.2020, 10:53
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Re: Coronavirus

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Konstanz- is the border crossing closed?( from zurich travelling to Konstanz by train)
Spoke today to someone who was in Constance yesterday and they said it was very quiet, with few people.

Last Saturday I had to go into Germany to collect a parcel, there were very few Swiss shopping so I took the opportunity to shop; usually, I would not dream of doing that on a Saturday.
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  #15218  
Old 28.10.2020, 10:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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It's summer now down there and if you remember summer here was also deceptively calm. I'm just speculating that the statement from the South African scientists is probably not very applicable to the situation in Europe right now and whether herd immunity is achievable or not, is one of the biggest unknowns. I posted an article a few pages back about immunity being lost within 3 months, but stays much longer with medical staff suggesting that controlled and balanced exposure to the virus leads to longer lasting immunity
Whether herd immunity is possible or not is largely irrelevant. What's important is that the scientific debate should continue until it is "proven" in either way. Same goes for masks. Some scientific publications seem to have already made up their mind on the matter though. This research does seem to echo similar findings made in the slums of Mumbai though where it is theorized that herd immunity has been achieved.
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Old 28.10.2020, 10:59
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Re: Coronavirus

Personally, I think there are more measures that the government can impose that would allow businesses to remain open and (hopefully) get the virus situation under some degree of control.

I know some teachers or parents might not like this idea, but I think that having all kids do home school again is one such method. I've read that there seems to be some denial of young kids transmitting the virus, but anyone who has ever had kids in school should know how easily they bring viruses home from other students, and there is no real reason or evidence to believe that the COVID virus is any different in that regard, is there?

Also, I think they should start limiting the number of people allowed in stores again and perhaps also disinfecting like crazy as they were last Spring. I think a lot of behavior such as that was really loosened up over the summer when people had become comfortable again. And limiting the # of people allowed in stores might help stop people from going to the stores too often. There are a lot of people in our neighborhood, at least, who go to the grocery store daily.
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Old 28.10.2020, 11:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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I've read that there seems to be some denial of young kids transmitting the virus
They touch a million things and are unmasked! I stay well clear of those little critters


Btw, I read the Lancet link you posted regarding China, and I am still not clear on how China is controlling the numbers so well. That Lancet article seems like an info commercial for China

I find it hard to believe that a country of billion plus has hardly any new cases, specially as herd immunity apparently is not working that well against Corona.

One of the biggest things I learned from this crisis is how the west sold out their manufacturing base to China. Can't even buy non-Chinese masks!!!
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