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Old 28.10.2020, 15:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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In the same boat, we now have to wear masks unless we are at our own desks or sitting down for food/drink.
Nobody has complained about it seriously yet, us glasses wearers are not enjoying blindly fumbling about to get to our desks but it's not the worst.

We'll see if this all changes again this evening and they only keep the workshop people in the building.
My office mandated it back in September... it sucks, but I guess it is better than nothing if you can't work from home.
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  #15282  
Old 28.10.2020, 15:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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The Chinese government tests everybody for free if needed, not only symptomatic cases. This is how you stop a pandemic, not by trying to save every single miserable penny. In Kashgar they tested almost 5 million people in a few days....
Yes, because whatever comes out of China is highly reliable and believable.

As said before here, if worldometers is an even remotely believable source, China has not reported a single new test in months, yet somehow magically reports a handful of "new cases" every day.

I don't believe a single word. As some of us have said here many times: what's going on makes zero point zero sense and I can't help but question how and why these "new cases" suddenly appear all over the place - except China and a few other places in Asia.

Can't help but wonder if there's a Tylenol scandal situation going on and no, I'm not ashamed to show this level of paranoia. Or doubt.

But I'm a broken record, something in all this is not right, but no one's asking questions that are actually relevant. Which I guess might well be the whole point.
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  #15283  
Old 28.10.2020, 16:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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Like home office for office people? I mean... i dont like masks to be honest. They are not as good as they say and the office will shut down if anyone gets the virus. Its even worse for the boss, but hey, its his office.
A few of us drew up the Risk Assessment of the office closing due to a case in the office. It turns out that they're not concerned as they'd only lose production for 2 weeks as the rest of us can work from home. So a potential 5-10% efficiency loss for months vs a 2 week 5-10% efficiency loss for desk workers and 100% production loss.
Yep, it's their office and there's very few people willing to rock the boat with the number of layoffs going around.

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My office mandated it back in September... it sucks, but I guess it is better than nothing if you can't work from home.
We can work from home, only we're not encouraged. I wouldn't say we're not allowed as I'm sure you could kick up stink and be left at home for work, but it's definitely not being recommended from the upper levels. The masks are not the end of the world in the end, just an annoyance.
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Old 28.10.2020, 16:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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My office mandated it back in September... it sucks, but I guess it is better than nothing if you can't work from home.
I’ve been teaching with it since August. It took me time but I got used to it. Now I actually feel naked without it
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Old 28.10.2020, 16:18
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes! Absolutely! I was in Migros on Saturday early AM and it was packed with the 60plus crowd. One couple backed into me and didn't even apologize or stop backing into me. At the checkout, I had to politely tell the lady behind me to go back to her line on the floor as she tried to reach in front of my face to hand something to the cashier. She looked at me like I was nuts... they really don't care for the most part.
That's out of bounds for us now as shopping is the riskiest thing im doing.

I'm going at 7:40 pm.

I may do Germany on Saturday - but walk there
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  #15286  
Old 28.10.2020, 16:23
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Re: Coronavirus

Some of us had to have the mask since June and we don't get this "off when at desk" nor "off in a car" either coz we have to use public transport. So full days in a mask, my sinuses hate the watever sheds from it, glasses fog. But it is ok. We have to focus on the temporary aspect of this inconvenience and the transimission we help to reduce, tbh.
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Old 28.10.2020, 16:31
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Re: Coronavirus

CZ is keeping the scary world top position, 16000 cases yesterday, 300 deaths as per local media. There is a big effort in media to instruct the population to detach from watching the sad stats for a little bit, keep the isolation and to focus on the loved ones and family time. Prime minister just said to "hug your partner and forget the outside and all the restrictions for a minute".
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Old 28.10.2020, 16:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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CZ is keeping the scary world top position, 16000 cases yesterday, 300 deaths as per local media. There is a big effort in media to instruct the population to detach from watching the sad stats for a little bit, keep the isolation and to focus on the loved ones and family time. Prime minister just said to "hug your partner and forget the outside and all the restrictions for a minute".
That's where will we be this time next week.

Incidentally - 300 deaths suggests that cases number is way undereported there. Given the rapid growth rate of the cases it is likely to actually be 100k+ a day now. Going to be an appreciable herd effect very soon given the low population size and continued growth of cases. And a lot of deaths. Probably will hit 1000 per day.

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  #15289  
Old 28.10.2020, 16:45
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Re: Coronavirus

Press conference is now at 16.15

https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...rnational.html
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Old 28.10.2020, 16:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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That's where will we be this time next week.

Incidentally - 300 deaths suggests that cases number is way undereported there.

Given the rapid growth rate of the cases it is likely to be 100k+ a day. Going to be an appreciable herd effect very soon.
Immunologists speak of 1/5 of people immunized already, but for what it's worth if the immunity lasts a little..

They know that the reality is different than what the tests results manage to record, a few days ago they said 2x as much as the official count, I'd say more.
290 000 officially positive so far up to yesterday.

CH might be there faster than a week, but then the development after a couple of weeks depends on today's measures.
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  #15291  
Old 28.10.2020, 16:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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Immunologists speak of 1/5 of people immunized already, but for what it's worth if the immunity lasts a little..

They know that the reality is different than what the tests results manage to record, a few days ago they said 2x as much as the official count, I'd say more.
290 000 officially positive so far up to yesterday.

CH might be there faster than a week, but then the development after a couple of weeks depends on today's measures.
The people who get more ill are likely to be protected longer than average. And reinfections in general are statistically quite rare. So its imperfect protection - but probably enough to see you guys through to vaccinating the vulnerable presuming that can be done by say Q2 2020. Presuming you continue to blow out. Certainly if you get to 40 or 50% that should make controlling the next wave relatively straightforward.

CZ has certainly shown the "lockdown earlier you will be out earlier" crowd to be really oversimplifying matters.
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Old 28.10.2020, 16:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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Immunologists speak of 1/5 of people immunized already, but for what it's worth if the immunity lasts a little..

They know that the reality is different than what the tests results manage to record, a few days ago they said 2x as much as the official count, I'd say more.
290 000 officially positive so far up to yesterday.

CH might be there faster than a week, but then the development after a couple of weeks depends on today's measures.
Not sure that's really going to help.

"Levels of protective antibodies in people wane "quite rapidly" after coronavirus infection, say researchers.

Antibodies are a key part of our immune defences and stop the virus from getting inside the body's cells.

The Imperial College London team found the number of people testing positive for antibodies has fallen by 26% between June and September.

They say immunity appears to be fading and there is a risk of catching the virus multiple times.

The news comes as figures from the Office for National Statistics show that the number of Covid-19 deaths in the UK rose by 60% in the week of 16 October.

The ONS figures suggest there have now been more than 60,000 deaths involving Covid-19 in the UK.

More than 350,000 people in England have taken an antibody test as part of the REACT-2 study so far.

In the first round of testing, at the end of June and the beginning of July, about 60 in 1,000 people had detectable antibodies.

But in the latest set of tests, in September, only 44 per 1,000 people were positive.

It suggests the number of people with antibodies fell by more than a quarter between summer and autumn."

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54696873
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Old 28.10.2020, 16:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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Some of us had to have the mask since June and we don't get this "off when at desk" nor "off in a car" either coz we have to use public transport. So full days in a mask, my sinuses hate the watever sheds from it, glasses fog. But it is ok. We have to focus on the temporary aspect of this inconvenience and the transimission we help to reduce, tbh.
I had meetings with both kids teachers yesterday.. You must be unlucky, our teachers wear them welcoming the kids and when they move around the class to one2one with kids ..

But they said thankfully that's only a really small part of the day, the rest is just managed by keeping distance.. Our meeting was also mask-less just two desks apart

What about other teachers here?
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Old 28.10.2020, 16:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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Perhaps stopping a pandemic would have been not allowing one to happen in the first place...

Who trusts anything coming out of China??
As the US, which is the most technically advanced and richest nation in the world has clearly demonstrated, it is far easier to talk about stopping a pandemic than actually doing it.
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Old 28.10.2020, 17:00
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Re: Coronavirus

The tests don't show T cell immunity, so plenty of people will no antibodies will be immune. For a vaccine to work & last it will need to work with T cells & not anti bodies.

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Not sure that's really going to help.

"Levels of protective antibodies in people wane "quite rapidly" after coronavirus infection, say researchers.

Antibodies are a key part of our immune defences and stop the virus from getting inside the body's cells.

The Imperial College London team found the number of people testing positive for antibodies has fallen by 26% between June and September.

They say immunity appears to be fading and there is a risk of catching the virus multiple times.

The news comes as figures from the Office for National Statistics show that the number of Covid-19 deaths in the UK rose by 60% in the week of 16 October.

The ONS figures suggest there have now been more than 60,000 deaths involving Covid-19 in the UK.

More than 350,000 people in England have taken an antibody test as part of the REACT-2 study so far.

In the first round of testing, at the end of June and the beginning of July, about 60 in 1,000 people had detectable antibodies.


But in the latest set of tests, in September, only 44 per 1,000 people were positive.

It suggests the number of people with antibodies fell by more than a quarter between summer and autumn."

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54696873
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Old 28.10.2020, 17:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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Not sure that's really going to help.

"Levels of protective antibodies in people wane "quite rapidly" after coronavirus infection, say researchers.

Antibodies are a key part of our immune defences and stop the virus from getting inside the body's cells.

The Imperial College London team found the number of people testing positive for antibodies has fallen by 26% between June and September.

They say immunity appears to be fading and there is a risk of catching the virus multiple times.

The news comes as figures from the Office for National Statistics show that the number of Covid-19 deaths in the UK rose by 60% in the week of 16 October.

The ONS figures suggest there have now been more than 60,000 deaths involving Covid-19 in the UK.

More than 350,000 people in England have taken an antibody test as part of the REACT-2 study so far.

In the first round of testing, at the end of June and the beginning of July, about 60 in 1,000 people had detectable antibodies.

But in the latest set of tests, in September, only 44 per 1,000 people were positive.

It suggests the number of people with antibodies fell by more than a quarter between summer and autumn."

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54696873
Oh do come on, many EF experts are telling us daily that the herd effect is on the way
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Old 28.10.2020, 17:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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Oh do come on, many EF experts are telling us daily that the herd effect is on the way
It may be via T cells, time will tell as otherwise there is no chance of a lasting vaccine
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Old 28.10.2020, 17:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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Oh do come on, many EF experts are telling us daily that the herd effect is on the way
You do realize that herd effect does not equal herd immunity right? There is a herd effect already. Not huge in CH yet by any means but its there.

If CZ gets to 40 or 50% infected - which surely looks possible given the giant number of deaths there and exponential rise, it will have a substantial herd effect. That is to say that the natural R value (of say 3) is muted (to say 1.5). Which makes the disease much more controllable over the next few months at least. Is that really controversial?
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Old 28.10.2020, 17:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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The tests don't show T cell immunity, so plenty of people will no antibodies will be immune. For a vaccine to work & last it will need to work with T cells & not anti bodies.
There are mainly two types of T cells; Helper and Cytotoxic T Cells.

How effective these are in fighting off COVID-19 is not yet known, of course, people hope they will give rise to immunity.
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Old 28.10.2020, 17:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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The people who get more ill are likely to be protected longer than average. And reinfections in general are statistically quite rare. So its imperfect protection - but probably enough to see you guys through to vaccinating the vulnerable presuming that can be done by say Q2 2020. Presuming you continue to blow out. Certainly if you get to 40 or 50% that should make controlling the next wave relatively straightforward.
They think Q1 already, January. Some local research is also done, CZ media reported Russia and China vaxing already.

The blow out seemed unavoidable, since this concept of under-reporting means undetected. It is guessed to have massively happened while back, we only identified late Sept something that was brought in July/Aug by holiday makers and quietly travelled through the country. Not really caused by the usual everyday border crossing for individual work commuters or cargo logistics.That's what many local public health offices (which are exclusively MDs) and GPs say, together with data from the epidemiologists.

The difference here in CH imho is that June/July we had here big warning of a possible quarantine (unpaid by insurance if infected in red zones abroad...etc.) upon return and the consequences deterred people better here than in CZ who were untouched by 1st wave (almost no deaths). So almost everyone I know in edu/health stayed here.

CZ doesn't see it in waves though...if the spread is so high, the beginning of future waves might be hard to monitor and the experts warn of mutations, too. So, other complications.
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