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Old 29.10.2020, 11:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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Assuming the "more into account" is the economy, the following post nicely covers it. This is becoming the majority view btw.
The issue is though, what is the plan after the lockdown? We went into lockdown in March and came out in the summer. Winter hasn't even started yet, the clocks only went back last weekend! We're barely into autumn so if we lockdown now and come out again in a few weeks time the numbers are just going to shoot back up.

A long term approach is needed and locking down every few weeks just isn't really sustainable. I'm fairly confident the numbers will start to tail off in Switzerland within a few weeks and am hoping we can just keep the same measures until the spring.
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  #15482  
Old 29.10.2020, 11:50
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Re: Coronavirus

Speaking of the French; I'm always thankful that the Swiss government never went the route of French/Spanish-style lockdown, where one can't be more than 500 m - 5 km of their house.
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  #15483  
Old 29.10.2020, 11:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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The issue is though, what is the plan after the lockdown? We went into lockdown in March and came out in the summer.
Hopefully a working and safe vaccine? Otherwise...we will have to learn to better treat the virus and deal with a lot of death.
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Old 29.10.2020, 11:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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15,500-ish posts summed up in two sentences. Can we go home now??
Yes. And you are really supposed to be there, anyways, unless you are at work.
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  #15485  
Old 29.10.2020, 12:01
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Re: Coronavirus

I have nothing against opposing views and think it’s interesting to see both sides of the coin.
Having said that i think it’s not what you say but how you say it and there a few posters on this thread who make some interesting points but these are lost amongst all the useless ‘noise’ and points scoring.

As I see it it’s not an either or scenario, we need to find a balance somewhere in the middle which protects the vulnerable and stops the hospitals from being overwhelmed without killing the economy in the process and that will require some effort from the population as a whole. At the moment It seems to me that there are plenty of people around who are unwilling to put the effort in.
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Old 29.10.2020, 12:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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A "bailout"? Please ... I thought bailouts were reserved for massive corporations and banks that made bad decisions and were "too big to fail", not small independently owned businesses who are forced to close due to no fault of their own...the government should be there to protect those people.
If she is in favour of lockdown to prevent spread of disease, she is free to close her shop without government intervention - there's no need for a forced lockdown or a bailout.

Lockdowns can happen without a financial bailout. From your post, you stated the motivation was the money to be able to continue paying staff without being open. So yes, that is a bailout.
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Old 29.10.2020, 12:02
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Re: Coronavirus

Somehow it still seems to be unclear how long the development of a vaccine normally takes and what it is actually supposed to do.

Banking on a vaccine as the only way out of this monster they've created in sheer panic is beyond naive and hardly a "strategy". That's something that has been very obvious since March.

As said many times, there's zero plan and short of creating home prisons for entire populations, no one has any idea - and that does nothing other than delay the inevitable while creating unprecedented economic damage and an implosion of especially Europe's entire welfare system which in turn would and/or already will be impossible to repair for decades.

Again, there is no alternative to some version of the Swedish way which also many have been saying from day one and, again, is actually precisely what the WHO recommends and countries agreed they would do in case of pandemics.
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  #15488  
Old 29.10.2020, 12:13
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Re: Coronavirus

Todays number 9386 from 35k tests

287 hospitalisations
31 death

Last edited by Sigh; 29.10.2020 at 12:14. Reason: Added info
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Old 29.10.2020, 12:16
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Re: Coronavirus

I wonder how it would go down in history, if governments allowed so many people to die in order to try to save the economy... What people would think about that in 20+ years.
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  #15490  
Old 29.10.2020, 12:18
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Re: Coronavirus

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Speaking of the French; I'm always thankful that the Swiss government never went the route of French/Spanish-style lockdown, where one can't be more than 500 m - 5 km of their house.
The French didn't have a specified distance from home, except for personal exercise, which was 2km, IIRC. During the first lockdown we were stopped near St. Louis, some 15km from home, having been to a supermarket there. With no supermarket within walking distance there was no obligation to only drive to the closest.

As of tomorrow it looks like they're going back to the previous model as it was up until June. Currently in Alsace but coming back down to CH later today. No idea if we'll be able to cross the border to do our normal shopping in Chatel or not - I hate to think that we'll be stuck with just the little shops in the village or a 20 minute drive to the nearest proper supermarkets in Switzerland.
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Old 29.10.2020, 12:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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If she is in favour of lockdown to prevent spread of disease, she is free to close her shop without government intervention - there's no need for a forced lockdown or a bailout.

Lockdowns can happen without a financial bailout. From your post, you stated the motivation was the money to be able to continue paying staff without being open. So yes, that is a bailout.
She can't continue to pay the staff while being open due to the government restrictions and lack of customers. She also can't afford to close her business. They need help, which is precisely what the government should be doing, protecting their citizens and businesses ... they are doing neither.

What planet are you on? The kind where money is readily available? Usually the first to scoff at hard working people asking for help...
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Old 29.10.2020, 12:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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I wonder how it would go down in history, if governments allowed so many people to die in order to try to save the economy... What people would think about that in 20+ years.

Well, one should not forget that the economy is us people making, trading, using and consuming stuff. Stuff comprises food, medicine transportation, energy and preparing the next generation for the unknown challenges of the future.
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Old 29.10.2020, 12:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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I wonder how it would go down in history, if governments allowed so many people to die in order to try to save the economy... What people would think about that in 20+ years.
I wonder how it will go down in history, that governments allowed so many people to die, lose their jobs, livelihoods, homes, compromise their academic futures, in order to try to save the elderly... What people would think about that in 20+ years.
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Old 29.10.2020, 12:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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I wonder how it would go down in history, if governments allowed so many people to die in order to try to save the economy... What people would think about that in 20+ years.
Nothing. They're too busy looking for food.
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Old 29.10.2020, 12:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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I was talking to a lady in the gym yesterday, she said that they should close down all gyms as it is not safe. Yet there she was training
Speaking of gyms, I just went this morning and now masks are mandatory everywhere (in my gym at least) - even when using the equipment. Needless to say, the cardio machines were virtually empty. I was planning to use the elliptical but no way would I do so with a mask so I just used the weights (like everyone else there this morning).

Looks as though I'll have to find the will/enthusiasm to get back into jogging outside again.
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Old 29.10.2020, 12:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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Well, one should not forget that the economy is us people making, trading, using and consuming stuff. Stuff comprises food, medicine transportation, energy and preparing the next generation for the unknown challenges of the future.

The previous generation did F-all to prepare us for our current challenge

Based on this thread I doubt this generation will fare any better at preparing the next gen for unknown challenges. I admire your positivity though
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Old 29.10.2020, 12:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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Somehow it still seems to be unclear how long the development of a vaccine normally takes and what it is actually supposed to do.
Depends very much on the disease. A new flu virus is relatively fast as we know how to do that and only need to adjust existing techniques. Covid got a bit of a start from work done on SARS 1 but it was always said best case end 2020. And so it is.

For some diseases there may never be a vaccine. AIDS for example.
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Old 29.10.2020, 12:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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I wonder how it would go down in history, if governments allowed so many people to die in order to try to save the economy... What people would think about that in 20+ years.
You do understand that "the economy" is not some abstract concept right? This is the reason why we are where we are, living long, healthy, comfortably and having the ability to argue over the internet in a peaceful and prosperous country like Switzerland. Without "the economy" we are back where North Korea and Venezuela are, go and ask how are they doing right now?
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Old 29.10.2020, 12:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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The previous generation did F-all to prepare us for our current challenge

Based on this thread I doubt this generation will fare any better at preparing the next gen for unknown challenges. I admire your positivity though
Hey, we're not running in circles while screaming, or are we?


PS. it's not positivity, it's faith.
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Old 29.10.2020, 12:40
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Banking on a vaccine as the only way out of this monster they've created in sheer panic is beyond naive and hardly a "strategy". That's something that has been very obvious since March.....

Again, there is no alternative to some version of the Swedish way which also many have been saying from day one and, again, is actually precisely what the WHO recommends and countries agreed they would do in case of pandemics.
Tested and approved vaccines expected end 2020. Word from the project teams is very positive.

So yes, there is alternative to the failed Swedish way. And no, the Swedish way is not what the WHO recommend.
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