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Old 29.10.2020, 16:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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Absolutely, we can see everywhere where masks have been obligatory for months, there is no corona virus around
LOL!
The only person in the world who believed masks are 100% effective.
I hope you have recovered from this crushing disappointment.
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  #15562  
Old 29.10.2020, 17:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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There you go:

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Also, yes, there is already some evidence emerging that the COVID virus is mutating to become more lethal
Btw, this completely false "evidence" has been debunked quite a few times even by the CNN, but she kept on insisting that this is the case and you have ignored for quite a while.
Definition of lethal; very harmful or destructive.

It is clear that the D614G mutation has become the dominant SARS-CoV-2 lineage in Europe and had then taken hold in the United States, Canada and Australia.

It is not yet clear why but we do not yet know enough to say Pancake's claim is completely false "evidence"; it could be the D614G mutation is more infectious so would be more harmful.
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  #15563  
Old 29.10.2020, 17:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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There you go:



Btw, this completely false "evidence" has been debunked quite a few times even by the CNN, but she kept on insisting that this is the case and you have ignored for quite a while.
Thanks for the reference. I have not read every single post among the 15,000+ in this thread, and I hadn't read that post from Pancakes (I just googled it and found it now). So I didn't "ignore it for quite a while" -- I simply didn't know it existed.

In that particular case, it looks to me like Pancakes supplied citations which she misinterpreted, confusing increased lethality (of a pathogen) with the probable increase of deaths ensuing from the greater infectiousness of mutated COVID-19. In a sense, she was right: the pandemic as a whole is likely to be more lethal, but the virus itself is not.

It looks like several of you (from both sides of the argument, very fine people on both sides) put her straight.

Is Pancakes continuing to insist that her misinformation is correct? Is she refusing to supply evidence? Is she going to keep on repeating the false claim for months to come?

Just asking.
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Old 29.10.2020, 17:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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It is not yet clear why but we do not yet know enough to say Pancake's claim is completely false "evidence";
Your logic is completely the other way round. When one says there is evidence of something, it's not a matter of me bringing counter evidence, it's a matter of the claimant to bring them forth. Which, of course, is not the case. Anyways, CNN yesterday:

"...while recorded Covid-19 cases are spiking in the United Kingdom, France, Spain, Germany and other European countries, deaths are not rising at the same rate...."

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/28/e...ntl/index.html

I fully understand that you let such claims go unnoticed because they happen to be aligned to your view on the virus. That doesn't make them true though.

Btw, can we really stop this specific sub-fight? It's useless, obviously untrue and it's just annoying everyone else?
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Old 29.10.2020, 17:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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Anyways, CNN yesterday:

"...while recorded Covid-19 cases are spiking in the United Kingdom, France, Spain, Germany and other European countries, deaths are not rising at the same rate...."

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/28/e...ntl/index.html
I love that people who revile "mainstream (i.e. not right-wing) media" are only too happy to quote them when it suits. I'm not saying that you're one of them; it's just something I've noticed of late -- starting with Trump and certainly including our resident COVID-deniers here on EF.

Anyway, here's the chart from Worldometer of daily COVID-19 deaths in the UK. There's a very definite uptick in the last few days and I fear it's too early to claim that deaths aren't keeping up with new infections, quite apart from the obvious fact that deaths lag behind new infections. I hope the upward trend doesn't steepen but it's a distinct possibility.

coronavirus-uk-deaths.png

Last edited by Guest; 29.10.2020 at 17:38. Reason: Punctuation
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Old 29.10.2020, 17:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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Thanks for the reference. I have not read every single post among the 15,000+ in this thread, and I hadn't read that post from Pancakes (I just googled it and found it now). So I didn't "ignore it for quite a while" -- I simply didn't know it existed.

In that particular case, it looks to me like Pancakes supplied citations which she misinterpreted, confusing increased lethality (of a pathogen) with the probable increase of deaths ensuing from the greater infectiousness of mutated COVID-19. In a sense, she was right: the pandemic as a whole is likely to be more lethal, but the virus itself is not.

It looks like several of you (from both sides of the argument, very fine people on both sides) put her straight.

Is Pancakes continuing to insist that her misinformation is correct? Is she refusing to supply evidence? Is she going to keep on repeating the false claim for months to come?

Just asking.
No, I was using the word "lethal" according to one of its definitions -- that being "very harmful or destructive." And what I meant with that statement is that if the virus mutates to be more infectious, then it could or would become more "harmful or destructive" in the sense that it would lead to more infections and thus, likely also lead to more deaths. And I based that statement on studies I had read (which I had linked to) which suggested that that the virus was beginning to mutate to be more infectious due to acquiring more "spikes."

I blocked Gaburko days ago due to that frustrating argument, and his relentless misinterpretations; and the fact that he is apparently still trying to drag that out is just...

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  #15567  
Old 29.10.2020, 17:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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Is Pancakes continuing to insist that her misinformation is correct? Is she going to keep on repeating the false claim for months to come?
Yes.
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  #15568  
Old 29.10.2020, 17:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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No, I was using the word "lethal" according to one of its definitions -- that being "very harmful or destructive." And what I meant with that statement is that if the virus mutates to be more infectious, then it could or would become more "harmful or destructive" in the sense that it would lead to more infections and thus, likely also lead to more deaths. And I based that statement on studies I had read (which I had linked to) which suggested that that the virus was beginning to mutate to be more infectious due to acquiring more "spikes."

I blocked Gaburko days ago due to that frustrating argument, and his relentless misinterpretations; and the fact that he is apparently still trying to drag that out is just...

Attachment 140535
That's what I assumed you meant, as I clumsily tried to explain in my post.

I think we can lay this one to bed, now.
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  #15569  
Old 29.10.2020, 17:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think we can lay this one to bed, now.
in a nutshell:


Pancakes: I have EVIDENCE that the virus MIGHT BECOME more lethal IN THE FUTURE!

22 yards: yeah, sound logic, makes sense

I love this thread!
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  #15570  
Old 29.10.2020, 17:58
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Re: Coronavirus

Again, can we stop the personal attacks and nit-picking?
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Old 29.10.2020, 18:11
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Re: Coronavirus

If we're looking for a solution in another country, there's Taiwan.


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...there hasn’t been a confirmed case of the virus spread domestically in Taiwan since the 12th of April. But how can this be? With almost 24 million residents and a population density of 671 people per square kilometre (far greater than the density of the UK or US), and not to mention its proximity to China, you’d expect Taiwan to have been hit far more severely by the pandemic......Enforcing the wearing of masks on public transport, limiting the size of public gatherings, closing the borders to non-nationals and residents, and introducing mandatory 14-day quarantines for everyone entering the country, Taiwan managed to quickly curb the spread of the virus without the need for lockdowns or great change to everyday life. So, what’s it been like living here?
https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7mg...sponse-success



Of course, it's Vice, a thing or two presented as facts surely missed factchecking but the general idea is Taiwan is out there with 3 times the population of Switzerland and less deaths than my fingers since January.
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Old 29.10.2020, 18:18
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Re: Coronavirus

Good to see some businesses seeing a turn round in their fortune during the crisis which in this case
was helped by the lockdowns and restrictions due to the Pandemic.

Yes apparently many people are playing with their model trains during the lockdowns and curfews.

BBC News - Hornby the model train maker steams ahead in lockdown
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Old 29.10.2020, 18:30
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Re: Coronavirus

I just went for a walk through town here after I had been sitting on the computer all day long.

Looks to me that eating in restaurants is perfectly safe - because they are totally empty. The odd table with 2 people. Bars, a bit different, you have the usual suspects hanging out there. But also far from busy.
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Old 29.10.2020, 18:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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Again, can we stop the personal attacks and nit-picking?
Is it groundhog day?
Haven’t we been here before?
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  #15575  
Old 29.10.2020, 18:40
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Re: Coronavirus

Please wear masks people.







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Old 29.10.2020, 19:04
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Re: Coronavirus

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Please wear masks people.







What exactly are you trying to prove by reposting photos from months ago of some people making counterfeit masks?

Should people stop buying Rolex watches as well?

This looks very much like trolling to me.
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Old 29.10.2020, 19:14
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Re: Coronavirus

Remember when red was to signal bad?

This is like with hurricane Harvey when they were adding new colors to the color scheme every day because the numbers were literally off the chart.

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Old 29.10.2020, 19:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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What exactly are you trying to prove by reposting photos from months ago of some people making counterfeit masks?

Should people stop buying Rolex watches as well?

This looks very much like trolling to me.
So anything constructive against masks is trolling?

Millions of masks sold in Swiss shops have been found inadequate for use
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Old 29.10.2020, 19:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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Remember when red was to signal bad?

This is like with hurricane Harvey when they were adding new colors to the color scheme every day because the numbers were literally off the chart.
"I'll have a P please Bob!"

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Old 29.10.2020, 19:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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So anything constructive against masks is trolling?

Millions of masks have been found inadequate for use in Switzerland
So if someone started selling a fake vaccine in Asia, for example, you would post that as a reason not to have the vaccination?

In the case of the masks though, you're wrong - the masks made by hand in West Asia as depicted in your photo would still offer a degree of protection against this corona virus compared with not wearing a mask.
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