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  #15601  
Old 29.10.2020, 22:20
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Re: Coronavirus

https://english.elpais.com/society/2...h-the-air.html

"A room, a bar and a classroom: how the coronavirus is spread through the air
The risk of contagion is highest in indoor spaces but can be reduced by applying all available measures to combat infection via aerosols. Here is an overview of the likelihood of infection in three everyday scenarios, based on the safety measures used and the length of exposure"
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  #15602  
Old 29.10.2020, 22:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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Well despite the groans of the alt-right, the mask obligation clearly includes the area outside the stores.


https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/de/home...tml#1794075501
Thanks! That's similar to what I thought I had read yesterday, as part of the new restrictions announcements.

Translated from your text:

"In the outdoor areas of facilities and businesses such as shops, event locations, restaurants and bars or weekly and Christmas markets."
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  #15603  
Old 29.10.2020, 22:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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....masks.
East Asian countries are very keen on and observant of mask wearing. Remind me, what are infection rates like there?
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  #15604  
Old 29.10.2020, 22:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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Thanks! That's similar to what I thought I had read yesterday, as part of the new restrictions announcements.

Translated from your text:

"In the outdoor areas of facilities and businesses such as shops, event locations, restaurants and bars or weekly and Christmas markets."
I'm just hoping Clifton ignores it and picks up a tasty fine or three.
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  #15605  
Old 29.10.2020, 23:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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Just to add, for the avoidance of doubt and to avoid the baseless accusation of spreading misinformation, here are a number of scientific studies from credible source that show just how unclear the science is over the use of masks:

From the British Medical Journal:

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577.long




From the National Library of Medicine:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19216002/



From the New England Journal of Medicine:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372



As well as something VERY relevant to this forum:



Cambridge:

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journ...6639CCC9D8BC05



Perhaps most relevant from the Center for Evidence Based Medicine at Oxford:

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/maskin...with-politics/


Spreading misinformation indeed
By your own admission, you've listed a number of studies that are inconclusive. You have selectively (or deselectively) listed none of the many studies that demonstrate a clear benefit. You have listed no studies showing that masks have a statistically significant detrimental effect to the wearer.

Yup, that's misinformation. Cherry-picking to give the impression that masks, at best, have no benefit.

The logical conclusion, even from your biased selection of studies, is that the jury is out, so take the safest option -- which is your despised "wear a mask as its uninvasive and minimally inconvenient, but it just may (actually, most probably) save lives."

But it's so much manlier to protest vociferously and show how special and unique you are, how you're not one of the sheeple, isn't it?
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  #15606  
Old 29.10.2020, 23:18
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Well despite the groans of the alt-right, the mask obligation clearly includes the area outside the stores. Probably also the path.


https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/de/home...tml#1794075501
The alt-right exists? In Switzerland?
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  #15607  
Old 29.10.2020, 23:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yeah.

I suggest an experiment: We sit you (and V) in a room. We then place a Covid positive person (in early stage) in the same room. We make you sit there for one hour. The Covid positive person is encouraged to tell stories. Both you and V can choose to wear a mask. If you do, the infected immediately also wears a mask.

Buy or sell?
You do realize people don't drop dead from this right? The way some describe this in this thread you would think Covid exposure was equal to someone getting exposed to radioactive material or whatever. For the massive majority of human beings it is literally at absolute worst a flu. For most it's not even that. Get some sense and dial down the drama.
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  #15608  
Old 30.10.2020, 00:17
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Re: Coronavirus

But he can see quotes?

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Pattern found

Areas With Mask Mandates Have Lower Covid-19 Hospitalization Rate, Study Finds

Of course, if you have blocked my posts then you won't see the evidence

When you block the evidence then you can keep incorrectly claiming there is no evidence.
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You do realize people don't drop dead from this right? The way some describe this in this thread you would think Covid exposure was equal to someone getting exposed to radioactive material or whatever.
Funny you should make the comparison to radioactive material exposure which is a long, lingering way to die.

OH's cousin, from 1st covid symptoms til passing - 6 days
My mate's sister, from 1st covid symptoms til passing - 4 days
She developed symptoms on the Monday afternoon - booked a drive through test on the Tuesday - drove a 40mile round trip to the test centre on Wednesday morning - was rushed to hospital on Wedenesday evening struggling to breathe - died Thursday morning. She was 60, a clinical care manager and otherwise fit as a fiddle.

For anyone who is interested, it was on ITN Evening news that the R rate in NE UK has dropped below 1 thanks to tier 3 measures, which include enhanced mask wearing. Northern Ireland has also got it's R rate below 1 after recent lockdown measures.
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  #15609  
Old 30.10.2020, 05:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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https://english.elpais.com/society/2...h-the-air.html

"A room, a bar and a classroom: how the coronavirus is spread through the air
The risk of contagion is highest in indoor spaces but can be reduced by applying all available measures to combat infection via aerosols. Here is an overview of the likelihood of infection in three everyday scenarios, based on the safety measures used and the length of exposure"
So - aerosols. That's what I thought. Trains are still packed here, I wear a respirator but it is super uncomfortable (besides the looks I get).

CZ press estimated today that lockdown is still the way with the lowest cost. Roughly 15 000 cases per day lately (35% pos rate but R seems to be getting down a little, looks like the combo of mass testing, still tracing and lockdown might work). Schools closed, day cares open (for those who have to work). There are so many sick day care teachers that they are being now replaced en mass by students. Online teaching has a setback, too - too many sick teachers, subs are taking over but it is far from a smooth process. The country hopes to be through all by Xmas. But that's grim 7 weeks ahead. Leaders changed the tone of the narrative - constant warnings were inducing panic and fear, they said that there should be respect for the situation, not paralyzing fear. Stats guys are pointing out that the social contact has been reduced by cca 40%, it needs to go to further 70% to see a bigger effect (more homeoffice, only seeing family when really needed, only emergency restocking, stricter curfews).
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Last edited by MusicChick; 30.10.2020 at 05:39.
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  #15610  
Old 30.10.2020, 08:00
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Re: Coronavirus

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By your own admission, you've listed a number of studies that are inconclusive. You have selectively (or deselectively) listed none of the many studies that demonstrate a clear benefit. You have listed no studies showing that masks have a statistically significant detrimental effect to the wearer.
There we can agree, that more study is required. The link that I posted from back in July names a number of studies that were ongoing, the most interesting and relevant being the one taking place in Denmark due its nature, scope and size. This study has now finished however the results haven't yet been published because they are yet to find a publisher (and I think we can be fairly certain as to the reason why).

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/maskin...with-politics/

Quote:
trial_id - NCT04337541
sponsor - Rigshospitalet, Denmark
recruitment_status -Recruiting
countries - Denmark
title - Reduction in COVID-19 Infection Using Surgical Facial Masks Outside the Healthcare System
enrollment - 6000
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  #15611  
Old 30.10.2020, 08:11
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Re: Coronavirus

Hey TonyClifton... looks like you were right about T-cells.

COVID, Immunity probably long lasting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awc0bN07Aac&t
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  #15612  
Old 30.10.2020, 08:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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Hey TonyClifton... looks like you were right about T-cells.

COVID, Immunity probably long lasting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awc0bN07Aac&t
Thanks for that link!

Just a minor correction though, I've never really gotten into the immunity discussion. I was just critical of the Imperial College study published in the last week, that was leapt on by the press regarding long term immunity where T Cells weren't mentioned at all.
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  #15613  
Old 30.10.2020, 08:42
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Re: Coronavirus

Is there a covid tracker available in CH? I found one, but it only works with the super-latest IOS (a**hats!), as if we all ditch our mobiles for the latest and the newest.

Thanks!
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  #15614  
Old 30.10.2020, 08:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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Hey TonyClifton... looks like you were right about T-cells.

COVID, Immunity probably long lasting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awc0bN07Aac&t
From the about page of that youtube channel:

Disclaimer; These media including videos, book, e book, articles, podcasts are not peer-reviewed. They should never replace individual clinical judgement from your own health care provider. No media-based material on this channel is suitable for using as professional medical advice. All comments are also for educational purposed only and must never replace advice from your own health care provider.

So let's just take it all with a grain of YouTube salt.
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  #15615  
Old 30.10.2020, 08:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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Is there a covid tracker available in CH? I found one, but it only works with the super-latest IOS (a**hats!), as if we all ditch our mobiles for the latest and the newest.

Thanks!
Here are a few.

https://www.corona-data.ch/

https://ncs-tf.ch/en/situation-report

https://interaktiv.tagesanzeiger.ch/...-im-vergleich/
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  #15616  
Old 30.10.2020, 08:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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The alt-right exists? In Switzerland?

I'd say that it's people eager to pick up American style terms for things stemming from very different contexts. The mass media loves it though -- the sort of stuff that allows a thousand different newspapers to just pick up the latest dépêche de presse from AFP or Reuters, change a couple of words, publish, ..., and profit.
But I'm highly off topic and will stop.
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Old 30.10.2020, 08:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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But I'm highly off topic and will stop.
I don't think that any post in this thread is offtopic
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  #15618  
Old 30.10.2020, 08:52
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Re: Coronavirus

For those still upset at the Swiss response, here is a cautionary tale from Melbourne that makes for some grim reading on the effects of a prolonged lockdown (3 months).

1200 jobs lost per day
30% increase in demand of mental health services
$100 million in lost economic activity per day

City Locked Down for Three Months Has Bleak Lessons for the World

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-for-the-world
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  #15619  
Old 30.10.2020, 09:04
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Re: Coronavirus

Thank you. I meant a tracing app that can be downloaded on a mobile, trace cases/location, and inform one about the probability of being exposed to Covid from low to high, based on tested individuals. I suppose, in order for it to work, a lot of people have to use it since it appears that it operates via bluetooth.
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  #15620  
Old 30.10.2020, 09:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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Thank you. I meant a tracing app that can be downloaded on a mobile, trace cases/location, and inform one about the probability of being exposed to Covid from low to high, based on tested individuals. I suppose, in order for it to work, a lot of people have to use it since it appears that it operates via bluetooth.
I know of nothing that meets your criteria unfortunately; I can only recommend the SwissCovid app, available on the play store and apple store. If someone near you has been tested positively, you may be notified.
It's been downloaded about 2 million times now. I use it myself.

https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...t-tracing.html
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