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Old 30.10.2020, 10:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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For those still upset at the Swiss response, here is a cautionary tale from Melbourne that makes for some grim reading on the effects of a prolonged lockdown (3 months).

1200 jobs lost per day
30% increase in demand of mental health services
$100 million in lost economic activity per day

City Locked Down for Three Months Has Bleak Lessons for the World

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-for-the-world
On the counter balance - what is the economic loss, and the morale, if no measures are taken, and we have masses of dead people?

In addition, to show you put your life where your mouth is, why don't you volunteer when hospitals will become short-staffed? Case in point: Aargau, and possibly other cantons, demands staff to work even when they test positive. You are welcome to go volunteer at a hospital near you.
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  #15622  
Old 30.10.2020, 10:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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For those still upset at the Swiss response, here is a cautionary tale from Melbourne that makes for some grim reading on the effects of a prolonged lockdown (3 months).

1200 jobs lost per day
30% increase in demand of mental health services
$100 million in lost economic activity per day

City Locked Down for Three Months Has Bleak Lessons for the World

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-for-the-world
I have a good friend who lives in Melbourne and yes, it was extreme and he has a healthy mind, but still suffered. I personally don't want that type of lockdown either. I appreciate the Swiss pragmatism that understands daily exercise/walks is vital to human health amongst other things.

However, I don't believe in allowing thousands of people to die & healthcare workers to be burdened/severely exposed so that bars can stay open...there is a balance. It is clear that we will have to soon face additional measures and I'm not sure why Switzerland is delaying it further.
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  #15623  
Old 30.10.2020, 10:18
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Re: Coronavirus

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On the counter balance - what is the economic loss, and the morale, if no measures are taken, and we have masses of dead people?

In addition, to show you put your life where your mouth is, why don't you volunteer when hospitals will become short-staffed? Case in point: Aargau, and possibly other cantons, demands staff to work even when they test positive. You are welcome to go volunteer at a hospital near you.
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I have a good friend who lives in Melbourne and yes, it was extreme and he has a healthy mind, but still suffered. I personally don't want that type of lockdown either. I appreciate the Swiss pragmatism that understands daily exercise/walks is vital to human health amongst other things.

However, I don't believe in allowing thousands of people to die & healthcare workers to be burdened/severely exposed so that bars can stay open...there is a balance. It is clear that we will have to soon face additional measures and I'm not sure why Switzerland is delaying it further.
Switzerland are striving to strike the right balance, that is good enough for me.
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  #15624  
Old 30.10.2020, 10:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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For those still upset at the Swiss response, here is a cautionary tale from Melbourne that makes for some grim reading on the effects of a prolonged lockdown (3 months).

1200 jobs lost per day
30% increase in demand of mental health services
$100 million in lost economic activity per day

City Locked Down for Three Months Has Bleak Lessons for the World

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-for-the-world
Even worse in Argentina. They are as bad or worse compared to their neighbors who didn't lock down or did nothing similar like the Argentinian response which has been the longest lock down in the world!

Argentina locked down early and hard. Now cases are exploding.
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Old 30.10.2020, 10:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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Even worse in Argentina. They are as bad or worse compared to their neighbors who didn't lock down or did nothing similar like the Argentinian response which has been the longest lock down in the world!

Argentina locked down early and hard. Now cases are exploding.
Unlike Sweden whose neighbours did lockdown and had five times fewer deaths.
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  #15626  
Old 30.10.2020, 10:51
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Re: Coronavirus

Don't be a sheep
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  #15627  
Old 30.10.2020, 10:52
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Re: Coronavirus

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Unlike Sweden whose neighbours did lockdown and had five times fewer deaths.
It might be related with some cultures are more inclined to follow rules than others.

As per Sweden, I think it shows that collective responsibility doesn't work in a pandemic situation but that it needs a more authoritative driver.
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Old 30.10.2020, 10:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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Don't be a sheep
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  #15629  
Old 30.10.2020, 11:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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There we can agree, that more study is required. The link that I posted from back in July names a number of studies that were ongoing, the most interesting and relevant being the one taking place in Denmark due its nature, scope and size. This study has now finished however the results haven't yet been published because they are yet to find a publisher (and I think we can be fairly certain as to the reason why).

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/maskin...with-politics/
Of course, the study failed its peer review
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  #15630  
Old 30.10.2020, 11:40
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Re: Coronavirus

At the Zurich press conference this morning, they made clear that it isn't just the elderly who are suffering:

"There are also significantly younger patients in the hospital than just patients in the risk group. They are people in their 20s or 30s."

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https://www.20min.ch/story/heute-inf...n-901673899205
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  #15631  
Old 30.10.2020, 11:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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For those still upset at the Swiss response, here is a cautionary tale from Melbourne that makes for some grim reading on the effects of a prolonged lockdown (3 months).

1200 jobs lost per day
30% increase in demand of mental health services
$100 million in lost economic activity per day

City Locked Down for Three Months Has Bleak Lessons for the World

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-for-the-world
My wife works with children. I've never made a comprehensive survey but sometimes I talk to the parents while waiting for her. I've never perceived the stress about joblessness. I talked to the cafe/restaurant owners near home about the low sales during the soft lockdown in March/April and they're looking for the future, other even increased sales. I don't know if us people around here are more stressed about losing a job a looking for a new one than the average person out there. Stop for a while to think about it.
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  #15632  
Old 30.10.2020, 12:15
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Re: Coronavirus

"Jura announces the closure of bars, restaurants and public access infrastructure
Faced with the second wave of the Covid-19 pandemic, the Jura government declared the state of necessity on Friday. From Monday, public and private meetings of more than 5 people are prohibited, bars, restaurants, museums and cinemas closed.

"Public access infrastructures" such as libraries, theaters, sports halls, skating rinks, wellness centers, with the exception of those forming part of a hotel, casinos or even erotic salons will also have to close their doors until November 15, the Jura government communicated on Friday.

The canton also prohibits "training, matches and competitions in the field of amateur sports, except outdoor training for a maximum of 5 people, respecting distances and without contact."

https://www.rts.ch/info/11714390-le-...-semaines.html
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Old 30.10.2020, 12:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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On the counter balance - what is the economic loss, and the morale, if no measures are taken, and we have masses of dead people?

In addition, to show you put your life where your mouth is, why don't you volunteer when hospitals will become short-staffed? Case in point: Aargau, and possibly other cantons, demands staff to work even when they test positive. You are welcome to go volunteer at a hospital near you.
Plus - as has been pointed out on here multiple times - a high covid incidence anyway destroys consumer confidence and has pretty well the same economic effect as a lockdown. Hence Sweden suffering economically as much or more than its Nordic neighbours.
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  #15634  
Old 30.10.2020, 12:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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"There are also significantly younger patients in the hospital than just patients in the risk group. They are people in their 20s or 30s."

Source:

https://www.20min.ch/story/heute-inf...n-901673899205
Sure because they haven't all universally embarrassed themselves before, for example by reporting that "a healthy 29-year old with no pre-existing conditions died from Covid" in May, followed by a lengthy interview with an "expert" how "the healthy young" presumably suddenly all die from this too, only to then have to report less than 12 hours later, thag said 29-year old was perfectly alive and kicking.

Or the time they reported the death of a 9-year old, accompanied by sensationalist headlines how we're essentially all doomed and knocking on death's door. Too bad the 9-year old turned out to have been 109.

The list goes on and on and on but well, how very quickly we all forget.

There's always the odd young person that dies from something random, whether it's pneumonia or meningitis or dengue or heart attack or a stroke. I had meningitis once with life-threateningly high fever and spent weeks in the hospital and home care. It happens. It's the massive exception, not the rule. Reporting things as above is beyond unethical as the pretty much only universally accepted fact in this whole mess is that non-obese, healthy folks without prior conditions under 40 have a higher chance of dying in a car crash than dying from this.
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  #15635  
Old 30.10.2020, 12:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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I would be interesting to see how they will control the people from Switzerland doing shopping in France? More border checks? Borders closed for shopping?
Does anyone have any idea if it's allowed now? What if one is in Basel for a meeting, for example, and wants to nip cross the border? Is it possible? Does one need to fill in a form?
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  #15636  
Old 30.10.2020, 13:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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Does anyone have any idea if it's allowed now? What if one is in Basel for a meeting, for example, and wants to nip cross the border? Is it possible? Does one need to fill in a form?
Considering that for the french the only acceptable justification for going outside their homes is for essential work purposes, medical appointments, to help vulnerable individuals, exercise for one hour within a 1km radius of their homes and to do grocery shopping it would be very strange if we could just nip over for some shoping.
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Old 30.10.2020, 13:16
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Re: Coronavirus

Todays number is 9297 out of 38k tests
279 hospitalusations
52 death

Last edited by Sigh; 30.10.2020 at 13:17. Reason: Added info
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Old 30.10.2020, 13:24
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Re: Coronavirus

Just a note for all living in areas where restuarants have had to close:

If your favorite local resturants are able to offer take away - as many did in the first wave - if you can, please consider ordering from them regularily, with the same frequency (or more!) that you would normally visit in person.

It's a small thing, but all the small things we can collectively do to support our communities add up to make a difference.
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Old 30.10.2020, 13:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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Reporting things as above is beyond unethical as the pretty much only universally accepted fact in this whole mess is that non-obese, healthy folks without prior conditions under 40 have a higher chance of dying in a car crash than dying from this.
How do you keep the non-obese, healthy folks without prior conditions under 40 away from the rest of folks?
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  #15640  
Old 30.10.2020, 13:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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Considering that for the french the only acceptable justification for going outside their homes is for essential work purposes, medical appointments, to help vulnerable individuals, exercise for one hour within a 1km radius of their homes and to do grocery shopping it would be very strange if we could just nip over for some shoping.
The border with Germany is still open at Basel. The RheinCenter was absolutely heaving last night. No concept of social distancing.
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