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  #15761  
Old 31.10.2020, 13:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think he's more than smart enough to realise he isn't yet 60, so his recovery would be highly expected (if not guaranteed), and that the disease is still a significant risk to the elderly. Basically so what if he recovered easily.
Yea, agreed...which is why his going on is so annoying.

My 2 closest friends have it right now ... 32 years old and the wife was up all night struggling to breathe and he hasn’t had taste in almost 2 weeks. Even if you do recover easily, this isn’t the easiest virus out there.
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  #15762  
Old 31.10.2020, 13:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yea, agreed...which is why his going on is so annoying.

My 2 closest friends have it right now ... 32 years old and the wife was up all night struggling to breathe and he hasn’t had taste in almost 2 weeks. Even if you do recover easily, this isn’t the easiest virus out there.
Im 32 and would certainly rather not have it ��. Not particularly worried about not surviving but I'd rather not risk being uncomfortable for a week or two with a toddler. Do they know where they caught it?
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  #15763  
Old 31.10.2020, 13:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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Interesting. So tell us did it make you feel ill? or was it just like flu? Did you lose your sense of smell, your sense of taste?

Have you completely recovered? And you now feel that the whole thing is over blown?
The worst flu in 25 years, probably in my life. In bed 5 days with a high temperature, going to the bathroom was a huge deal & the exhausting. About 3-4 months for full recovery. Yes the whole thing is overblown, way less of a deal than breaking 3 vertebrae & 10 ribs 2.5 years ago
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  #15764  
Old 31.10.2020, 14:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think he's more than smart enough to realise he isn't yet 60, so his recovery would be highly expected (if not guaranteed), and that the disease is still a significant risk to the elderly.
Please don't forget the other great scourge of going down with Coronavirus Covid-19 namely those
for whom the after effects of Covid-19 leaves them with extreme fatigue with no sense of taste
and smell ( called Long Covid ) where life by no means returns to normal for them for many months or
maybe even for the rest of their lives - as there's still so much we don't know about the after effects of Covid 19.

Finally Long Covid is no respecter of age either as it can be found in many age groups.

Coronavirus Covid 19 - Those who suffer Long Covid
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  #15765  
Old 31.10.2020, 14:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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Developed countries like Japan and South Korea have never entered into full lockdowns. Don’t you think there’s a little more to it?

Funny how people are so quick to point the fingers at others.
The more to it was masks, but you knew that so why ask?
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Old 31.10.2020, 14:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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The more to it was masks, but you knew that so why ask?
It's social distancing and taking the disease seriously, first and foremost.

My wife was begging for me to stop traveling in January. We as a family are in lockdown now. No indoor public spaces at all for wife and daughter. I will zoom round the supermarket just before closing time to get groceries at breakneck speed. This is normal for her friends from China.

If you want to behave normally and presume a mask will protect you be my guest. If it's not an N95 minimum expect failure sooner or later.

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 31.10.2020 at 14:32.
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Old 31.10.2020, 14:28
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Re: Coronavirus

Interesting recent article here on masks.
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  #15768  
Old 31.10.2020, 14:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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It's social distancing and taking the disease seriously, first and foremost. My wife was begging for me to stop traveling in January.
This.

(I read your last sentence too fast, I thought she was begging you to quit being so distant )..


I liked when Czech prime-minister said there is no time for panic. We need to treat this infection with respect. But not fear.

Anyways, I just got a mail from my lovely local gym, saying that the canton thinks positively about physical activity, no closure (apparently a very small risk only) but very strict measures. And I do not have to wear a mask in the shower!
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Old 31.10.2020, 14:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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It's social distancing and taking the disease seriously, first and foremost.

My wife was begging for me to stop traveling in January. We as a family are in lockdown now. No indoor public spaces at all for wife and daughter. I will zoom round the supermarket just before closing time to get groceries at breakneck speed. This is normal for her friends from China.
Social distancing? LOL!

Have you ever been to Japan?
There is no social distancing in rush-hour trains and buses, or when walking in crowded streets to school or to work.

How Japan's mask culture may have saved lives during coronavirus
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Old 31.10.2020, 14:53
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Re: Coronavirus

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Social distancing? LOL!

Have you ever been to Japan?
There is no social distancing in rush-hour trains and buses, or when walking in crowded streets to school or to work.

How Japan's mask culture may have saved lives during coronavirus
If you wear an N95 or better masks then infection is unlikely. Ours are N99. Proper masks work the large majority of the time. The lancet data are very clear on this.

Here most are wearing cloth or surgical. They are simply not PPE. Your link above shows that they stop only about half the particles from getting in. That's really marginal protection. It's like wearing a baseball cap when you are cycling instead of a cycle helmet.

This combined with poor wearing of the mask explains why mask orders have been basically ineffectual here.

Even an N95 let's in 10% - that's not a figure I'd be happy with with current infection levels. So yes on a population level I'd agree with you masks can be very effective it's pretty clear they haven't been here.

The Reality is governments don't want after telling people to wear cloth masks now tell people they are a waste of time. I'm not naysaying masks - just that there has been nowhere near the care or detailed dive into the numbers required.

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 31.10.2020 at 15:08.
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Old 31.10.2020, 14:53
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Re: Coronavirus

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What did South Korea do differently..trace/track, apps, reduced social contact?
Pure speculation but I wouldn’t be surprised if genetics also might play a role. Many East Asians are lactose intolerant so maybe there’s a similar genetic difference from the west that makes them less susceptible? Other than that, culture, experience of last SARS outbreak? Track and trace that really works?

Can’t imagine there’s much social distancing taking place at Shinjuku station even at the moment!
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Old 31.10.2020, 14:57
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Yea, agreed...which is why his going on is so annoying.
I think he's being hopeful and positive, sometimes it encourages people and keeps them away from anxiety and panic.

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My 2 closest friends have it right now ... 32 years old and the wife was up all night struggling to breathe and he hasn’t had taste in almost 2 weeks. Even if you do recover easily, this isn’t the easiest virus out there.
I am really sorry for your friends...hope they get through without the whole inventory of possible consequences.

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Pure speculation but I wouldn’t be surprised if genetics also might play a role. Many East Asians are lactose intolerant so maybe there’s a similar genetic difference from the west that makes them less susceptible? Other than that, culture, experience of last SARS outbreak? Track and trace that really works?

Can’t imagine there’s much social distancing taking place at Shinjuku station even at the moment!
Czechs are not known for 3 kisses, it is more a reserved culture than anything, with dry sense of humor (like the stuffed dog-walking yesterday....like, really...) people always seem to have a bit of a distance, so the theory is weird. Maybe the cloth masks were not sufficient or not handled well in CZ but maybe it was the silent spread when everyone got home from Spain/Italy vaccations a while back. It would explain the virus shedding here, too.
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  #15773  
Old 31.10.2020, 15:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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If you wear an N95 or better masks then infection is unlikely. Ours are N99. Proper masks work the large majority of the time. The lancet data are very clear on this.

Here most are wearing cloth or surgical. They are simply not PPE. Your link above shows that they stop only about half the particles from getting in. That's really marginal protection. It's like wearing a baseball cap when you are cycling instead of a cycle helmet.

This combined with poor wearing of the mask explains why mask orders have been basically ineffectual here.

Even an N95 let's in 10% - that's not a figure I'd be happy with with current infection levels. So yes on a population level I'd agree with you masks can be very effective it's pretty clear they haven't been here.

The Reality is governments don't want after telling people to wear cloth masks now tell people they are a waste of time. I'm not naysaying masks - just that there has been nowhere near the care or detailed dive into the numbers required.
"It's like wearing a baseball cap when you are cycling instead of a cycle helmet."

A weird comparison, studies show cycle helmets reduce head injuries by 50%+ so these helmets are equally as effective as face masks
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Old 31.10.2020, 15:32
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Re: Coronavirus

I would be surprised if cases are not spreading like no tomorrow in Zurich still, so many people, usually guys below 40 behave like world owners, coughing in crowded area without mask and without even trying to cover their mouth, many companies still demanding people to come to the office more or less normally as there are no penalties doing so and people are so afraid to lose they jobs they dont even complain out loud, people keeping less of a distance in shops than they did in spring.

It basically seems like at least 20% of people refuse to accept or acknowledge second wave is here and want to see this like some administrative inconvenience.


Especially for the ones who are in high risk groups, with these numbers would recommend at least n95/ffp3/p3 masks or better yet, respirator with p3 filters. Some people will stare at you but so what.
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  #15775  
Old 31.10.2020, 15:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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If you wear an N95 or better masks then infection is unlikely. Ours are N99. Proper masks work the large majority of the time. The lancet data are very clear on this.

Here most are wearing cloth or surgical. They are simply not PPE. Your link above shows that they stop only about half the particles from getting in. That's really marginal protection. It's like wearing a baseball cap when you are cycling instead of a cycle helmet.

This combined with poor wearing of the mask explains why mask orders have been basically ineffectual here.

Even an N95 let's in 10% - that's not a figure I'd be happy with with current infection levels. So yes on a population level I'd agree with you masks can be very effective it's pretty clear they haven't been here.

The Reality is governments don't want after telling people to wear cloth masks now tell people they are a waste of time. I'm not naysaying masks - just that there has been nowhere near the care or detailed dive into the numbers required.
You really should not claim "mask orders have been basically ineffectual here." without providing any evidence, it makes you sound like those alt-right mask deniers.

Here is a study published recently in the American Journal of Tropical Medicine and Hygiene. Potential predictors of per-capita coronavirus-related mortality in 200 countries were examined, that study claims per-capita coronavirus mortality increased on average by just 16.2% each week in public mask-wearing countries, as compared with 61.9% each week in remaining countries.

Last edited by marton; 31.10.2020 at 16:47.
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Old 31.10.2020, 15:40
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Re: Coronavirus

One of the main driving factors behind a second lockdown as I understand it is ICU beds. We're running out it seems, at least that was the subject on a story I read in Swissinfo last week.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-i...-days/46123634

That was published on the 27th October, so three days ago as I write this; three days in which there has been almost no let up in the pressure. So now we got 12 days before we run out.

And to be clear, when we do run out of beds it isn't just the old and the sick who will find themselves in a deep water it will be everybody. And no I am not just talking about COVID-19 cases, I mean anybody who needs an ICU care. Not to mention that fact that the hospital staff are exhausted and need a bit of break in admissions.

Imagine your 5 year old daughter getting hit by a car and flown to hospital, only to be told on the way they have no ICU beds and should fly for another 20 minutes to somewhere else? 20 minutes that might cost her life. Your daughter would have died to protect the pockets of the fat cats, their fast cars and big houses who don't want a lockdown, they want business as usual.

And this article echos the same sentiment, hospital beds running out.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/covid-1...-time/46131494

Last edited by markalex; 31.10.2020 at 16:21.
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Old 31.10.2020, 15:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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One of the main driving factors behind a second lockdown as I understand it is ICU beds. We're running out it seems, at least that was the subject on a story I read in Swissinfo last week.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-i...-days/46123634

That was published on the 27th February, so three days ago as I write this; three days in which there has been almost no let up in the pressure. So now we got 12 days before we run out.

And to be clear, when we do run out of beds it isn't just the old and the sick who will find themselves in a deep water it will be everybody. And no I am not talking about COVID-19 case, I mean anybody who needs an ICU care. Not to mention that fact that the hospital staff are exhausted and need a bit of break in admissions.

Imagine your 5 year old daughter getting hit by a car and flown to hospital, only to be told on the way they have no ICU beds and should fly for another 20 minutes to somewhere else? 20 minutes that might cost her life. Your daughter would have died to protect the pockets of the fat cats, their fast cars and big houses who don't want a lockdown, they want business as usual.

And this article echos the same sentiment, hospital beds running out.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/covid-1...-time/46131494
Even die-hard mask deniers can't deny this above fact.

Last edited by olygirl; 31.10.2020 at 16:06.
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  #15778  
Old 31.10.2020, 15:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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What did South Korea do differently..trace/track, apps, reduced social contact?
Upon entering Korea, you have to install a covid track app. And then you have to get the test done within 24 hours. Regardless of the result, there is mandatory quarantine for 2 weeks. You can do the quarantine in a place of your choosing, if not one will be provide to you at about 80CHF per night, it includes food which will be delivered to you at your door step. From the airport you can get to the hotel/house with specially sanitised covid safe taxi or bus. There are strict rules for the quarantine, such as you have to throw your garbage in a special garbage bag in case you are positive(to eliminate the contamination) and you can not set a foot outside. You will be checked via messages or phone calls during the 2 weeks quarantine. After the 2 weeks, you can delete the app. There is a hefty fine and in some cases you can be thrown out of the country if you don't comply with the quarantine. Borders were never closed.

All Koreans already started wearing masks as early as last December. They wear masks both indoors and outdoors. Last spring WHO said masks were not necessary, also Berset also told us not to wear masks. Berset recently said in the interview that Switzerland just didn't have enough masks so he lied about the necessity of wearing the masks.

Tests, tests and more tests. When there is a covid outbreak, you will be notified via national emergency messages. They will tell you to avoid the outbreak area and encourage people to get tests if you were in that area at that particular time. They will track down everyone who were in that area and get them all tested so it's better to come forward. Also the outbreak area will be shut down for few days and whole place will be sanitised. One can also demand to get the test done, even without symptoms. Transparency is the key.

Schools, big events, churches etc. were closed for a short period of time when there was a big church outbreak. Restaurants and all other business were never shut down but due to less people going out, the busineess still suffered. Sport games happened but all without audiences or limited audiences. Right now, they are at the Covid level 1, the lowest level. Life goes on as normal, just have to wear masks. Also when you enter restaurants, offices, cafes, etc. they will check your temp, and you have to leave your contact info. Btw most Koreans wear proper masks, such as KF94.

Korea was heavily criticised for the Covid app by Europe and US for invasion of privacy. In Korea, people are not bothered by it and they don't care. Koreans also don't associate freedom with the mask wearing. Masks are just masks, if it protects and slows down the virus so that everyone can have a normal life, they will gladly wear it. Koreans are also used to wearing a mask because of the yellow dust storm that comes during the spring time(and Kpop stars wore them in the airports etc, rather fashionably!). Korea was hit by the sars outbreak, so they learnt a lot from it and try to do better by ensuring early on that they have enough tests, masks, and PPE.
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Old 31.10.2020, 16:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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Upon entering Korea, you have to install a covid track app. And then you have to get the test done within 24 hours. Regardless of the result, there is mandatory quarantine for 2 weeks. You can do the quarantine in a place of your choosing, if not one will be provide to you at about 80CHF per night, it includes food which will be delivered to you at your door step. From the airport you can get to the hotel/house with specially sanitised covid safe taxi or bus. There are strict rules for the quarantine, such as you have to throw your garbage in a special garbage bag in case you are positive(to eliminate the contamination) and you can not set a foot outside. You will be checked via messages or phone calls during the 2 weeks quarantine. After the 2 weeks, you can delete the app. There is a hefty fine and in some cases you can be thrown out of the country if you don't comply with the quarantine. Borders were never closed.

All Koreans already started wearing masks as early as last December. They wear masks both indoors and outdoors. Last spring WHO said masks were not necessary, also Berset also told us not to wear masks. Berset recently said in the interview that Switzerland just didn't have enough masks so he lied about the necessity of wearing the masks.

Tests, tests and more tests. When there is a covid outbreak, you will be notified via national emergency messages. They will tell you to avoid the outbreak area and encourage people to get tests if you were in that area at that particular time. They will track down everyone who were in that area and get them all tested so it's better to come forward. Also the outbreak area will be shut down for few days and whole place will be sanitised. One can also demand to get the test done, even without symptoms. Transparency is the key.

Schools, big events, churches etc. were closed for a short period of time when there was a big church outbreak. Restaurants and all other business were never shut down but due to less people going out, the busineess still suffered. Sport games happened but all without audiences or limited audiences. Right now, they are at the Covid level 1, the lowest level. Life goes on as normal, just have to wear masks. Also when you enter restaurants, offices, cafes, etc. they will check your temp, and you have to leave your contact info. Btw most Koreans wear proper masks, such as KF94.

Korea was heavily criticised for the Covid app by Europe and US for invasion of privacy. In Korea, people are not bothered by it and they don't care. Koreans also don't associate freedom with the mask wearing. Masks are just masks, if it protects and slows down the virus so that everyone can have a normal life, they will gladly wear it. Koreans are also used to wearing a mask because of the yellow dust storm that comes during the spring time(and Kpop stars wore them in the airports etc, rather fashionably!). Korea was hit by the sars outbreak, so they learnt a lot from it and try to do better by ensuring early on that they have enough tests, masks, and PPE.
What an awesome, detailed post! Thanks!
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Old 31.10.2020, 16:21
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As I think 22Y was alluding to, you won't still have the antibodies themselves, they typically only stick around for a few days. What you hope you have is an immune system that will be quickly triggered by a repeat infection and produce the antibodies quickly enough to avoid getting ill.
I had antibodies 6 months after I was ill, that a lot more than the few days. I will get round to another test soon.

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I think he's more than smart enough to realise he isn't yet 60, so his recovery would be highly expected (if not guaranteed), and that the disease is still a significant risk to the elderly. Basically so what if he recovered easily.
18 months to the Magical 60, BMI 26.6, High Blood pressure so I could identify as venerable if I wished

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Imagine your 5 year old daughter getting hit by a car and flown to hospital, only to be told on the way they have no ICU beds and should fly for another 20 minutes to somewhere else? 20 minutes that might cost her life. Your daughter would have died to protect the pockets of the fat cats, their fast cars and big houses who don't want a lockdown, they want business as usual.

And this article echos the same sentiment, hospital beds running out.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/covid-1...-time/46131494
They would treat the 5 year old at the expense of an older person. Ultimately when resources are short, priority is given to people with the highest chance of a successful longterm outcome.

Last edited by MusicChick; 31.10.2020 at 16:39. Reason: merging consecutive posts
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