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Old 01.11.2020, 12:43
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Re: Coronavirus

"In the first cantons, the hospitals are at the limit: In Solothurn, the intensive care units are currently being increased. There were 15 places available on Friday - 17 people would have needed one. The system in the Jura was also overloaded: patients were relocated to Basel

In Valais, the first patients have to be turned away. An over 80-year-old was admitted to the Sion Cantonal Hospital with severe corona symptoms. But he was no longer treated: "Normally we would have taken this person in so that they had at least a minimal chance of survival," says Bienvenido Sanchez to the " NZZ am Sonntag ""

https://www.20min.ch/story/selbst-tr...r-855818950050
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  #15822  
Old 01.11.2020, 12:44
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Re: Coronavirus

And in the UK:


Tens of thousands of NHS staff are off sick or self-isolating because of coronavirus, according to data shared with The Independent as the second wave grows.

In some parts of northern England, more than 40 per cent – in some cases almost 50 per cent – of all staff absences are linked to Covid-19, heaping pressure on already stretched hospitals trying to cope with a surge in virus patients.

uk.news.yahoo.com/tens-thousands-nhs-staff-off-205409924.html
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  #15823  
Old 01.11.2020, 12:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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The first patient has had to be turned away from a hospital in Valais, due to lack of resources.

https://www.20min.ch/story/selbst-tr...r-855818950050

A spokesperson from the hospital said that they could add more ICU beds, but they do not have the personnel required.

---

Is there any sort of co-ordination of medical personnel going on? Are other doctors and nurses in private practices, who might not be so busy, being asked to take shifts in the hospitals where personal are scarce?

I know last spring when the issue arose Berset said co-ordination would be too difficult. But if we are at the point where patients are being denied care, maybe it's time to tackle those difficulties. Assuming of course, that there are underutilized medical personnel somewhere at this point...

In the US, despite all the chaos, some hard-hit hospitals were able to do this in the spring. My niece, an ICU nurse who lives in a state that was then not affected, went to work at an NYC hospital when it became apparent that more help was needed. BIL, a doctor, saw his normal office patients during the day and then did night shifts at the hospital so that staff there could be reassigned to ICU. Mix of public and private efforts at co-ordination.

Thinking of one of the long running EF threads, are there any efforts being made at fast-tracking qualified foreign doctors and nurses already here who are waiting for diploma recognition?
That article says that the hospital had 15 ICU beds? That seems so low, I am sure there is a system of redistribution? I hope the private sfere will cooperate with public one. Only in CZ (comparable size to CH), there are currently today 7 156 Covid ICU patients being hospitalized. After 3wks of lockdown. The number is still growing.

They got nursing/public health universities on board early Sept, nursing highschools somewhere as well. Uni students take shifts to relieve ICU staff, while it counts as their obligatory intership. They have to still catch up with their uni program (lectures recorded for those on shifts). They seem to take it well. They are solicited more than the actual medicine students, due to more experiences and tough high school praktikums. https://www.idnes.cz/pardubice/zprav...019_151916.jpg

Another news from the Eastern Front - plasma helps, covid survivors donate blood en mass (professional Škoda Plzeň Hockey Team...a local bishop, you name it) https://www.idnes.cz/plzen/zpravy/ko...lzen-zpravy_vb

And the last bit I picked up today - public health offices measured exposure and infection and found out that people primarily infect at home within family than at work (comparable environments, so working out of office discounted).
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Last edited by MusicChick; 01.11.2020 at 13:02.
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  #15824  
Old 01.11.2020, 13:08
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Re: Coronavirus

Went to my local Denner yesterday just before closing time.
Out the door comes a gentleman with a trolly full of toiletpapper, I thought maybe the price was particulary attractive (it wasnt). So here we go again......
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  #15825  
Old 01.11.2020, 13:10
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Re: Coronavirus

It's not easy to reallocate medical staff. Pediatricians for example are nigh on useless in adult wards and ICU requires an extremely high level of training to be borderline useful, people who are not trained for ICU are worse than useless in an ICU. So basically to staff ICUs you have to take staff away from other ICUs or ORs because anesthesiologists are at least somewhat useful in an ICU setting. The next step is to take doctors from the internal medicine ward and put them in the ICU, which leads to subpar ICU treatment for patients and means you need to bring unqualified personel into the internal medicine ward (dermatologists, surgeons, pediatricians, etc). Is it better than getting some random person from off the street? Yes. But once again the treatment will be subpar. And then what happens to the kids who get sick or the people who suddenly realize they might have melanoma? There's no one left to care for them.

We have triage criteria and we will apply them and people will die, because people are tired of hearing about Covid, refuse to properly wear masks (no, you don't get to put it back into your pocket once you leave the Migros and put it back on when you come back tomorrow), are tired of washing their hands and feel like being told they are no longer allowed to lick doorknobs infringes on their personal freedom. Society has called the shots and the shot that was called is that older people or people with comorbidites aren't worthy of living. This is not on the healthcare system, even when we start turning patients away.

And yes, ICU bed numbers are low, because everyone whines incessantly about health insurance costs, so everyone tries their best to cut costs, which means our hospitals are tailored to be at near capacity at all times, because having empty beds costs too much.
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  #15826  
Old 01.11.2020, 13:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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That article says that the hospital had 15 ICU beds? That seems so low, I am sure there is a system of redistribution?
Under normal circumstances the hospitals in Neuchâtel have a total of 7 ICU beds. They have managed to increase that to 18 now but there is a limit as to how much they can increase capacity by. Without increased qualified staff they can’t do much more.
Six ICU patients have already been transferred from Neuchâtel to other Swiss hospitals, a friend’s cousin amongst them, but that probably won’t be going in much longer as other hospitals become full.
Another friend with a good view of the hospital from her flat says the helipad has been working overtime the past week or so.
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  #15827  
Old 01.11.2020, 13:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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That article says that the hospital had 15 ICU beds? That seems so low, I am sure there is a system of redistribution? I hope the private sfere will cooperate with public one. Only in CZ (comparable size to CH), there are currently today 7 156 Covid ICU patients being hospitalized. After 3wks of lockdown. The number is still growing.
If that's so then be very afraid for Switzerland (or have you mixed up ICU beds with all hospital beds?). We "only" have 1,095 regular ICU beds. In an emergency this can I think be expanded to about 1,500 maximum if they can find the staff for them that is. In Sion they stated they could make 4 more ICU beds but don't have the personnel to run them.

https://www.20min.ch/story/selbst-tr...r-855818950050
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  #15828  
Old 01.11.2020, 13:31
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Re: Coronavirus

Cannot say anything to the quality of this analysis, but the charts are pretty impressive and should make anybody thinking about events or asking people to be in the office think twice.

https://mobile.twitter.com/t_kurz/st...40262496411648
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  #15829  
Old 01.11.2020, 13:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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If that's so then be very afraid for Switzerland (or have you mixed up ICU beds with all hospital beds?).
No, those are solely ICUs and Covid patients. Thousands of health staff infected, too. And teachers. Schools closed 3wks ago. Students came to help both in hospitals and taking over online teaching, as well. Tracking and tracing system still works, thanks to hundreds of volunteers. But those still get only tiny bit of sleep. A call is still prefered than an sms, patients can wait up to 48hrs for the test results.

Last edited by MusicChick; 01.11.2020 at 14:08.
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  #15830  
Old 01.11.2020, 13:41
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Re: Coronavirus

Don't worry, it will all magically go away after the US elections in two days.

Tom
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  #15831  
Old 01.11.2020, 13:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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Don't worry, it will all magically go away after the US elections in two days.

Tom
I wonder how many people in the US are still waiting for it to just go away "like a miracle."
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  #15832  
Old 01.11.2020, 14:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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I wonder how many people in the US are still waiting for it to just go away "like a miracle."
Many. Some even believe, sadly, that it has already gone away, or never was, just for having the best country ever, and by claiming that God's on their side.
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  #15833  
Old 01.11.2020, 14:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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I wonder how many people in the US are still waiting for it to just go away "like a miracle."
Lord works in mysterious ways, miracles happen if you pray daily with your bum facing the sun
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  #15834  
Old 01.11.2020, 14:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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Lord works in mysterious ways, miracles happen if you pray daily with your bum facing the sun
LOL. I thought it was if you put a crystal in your butt and pray to the full moon.
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  #15835  
Old 01.11.2020, 14:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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I wonder how many people in the US are still waiting for it to just go away "like a miracle."
I don't care as long as they stay home on Tuesday.
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  #15836  
Old 01.11.2020, 14:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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Really? Just checked on Swiss, you can fly ZRH-NYC-ZRH in Feb for 550 CHF in economy.
Seems this morning's Zürich flight to Shanghai was full.
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  #15837  
Old 01.11.2020, 14:57
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Re: Coronavirus

Media still using phrases such as : ''Controlling the virus''
Then measuring countries based on that idiotic proposition of who 'controls' virus better....

Here is excess mortality research https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

If someone can answer the Q, why certain countries 'control' the virus better than others they would probably get a Nobel prize or will be called a racist/xenophobe.
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Old 01.11.2020, 15:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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Media still using phrases such as : ''Controlling the virus''
Then measuring countries based on that idiotic proposition of who 'controls' virus better....

Here is excess mortality research https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

If someone can answer the Q, why certain countries 'control' the virus better than others they would probably get a Nobel prize or will be called a racist/xenophobe.
I don't know what you are trying to say. But the link is cool, thanks.
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  #15839  
Old 01.11.2020, 15:04
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Re: Coronavirus

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Korea was heavily criticised for the Covid app by Europe and US for invasion of privacy. In Korea, people are not bothered by it and they don't care. Koreans also don't associate freedom with the mask wearing. Masks are just masks, if it protects and slows down the virus so that everyone can have a normal life, they will gladly wear it. Koreans are also used to wearing a mask because of the yellow dust storm that comes during the spring time(and Kpop stars wore them in the airports etc, rather fashionably!). Korea was hit by the sars outbreak, so they learnt a lot from it and try to do better by ensuring early on that they have enough tests, masks, and PPE.
Yes. We're obviously considering privacy more important than other people's lives. Masks were dismissed even here on EF, it is also seen as part of our freedom. Europe had the chance to learn from their first wave of covid, but no.

Some countries avoided a proper first wave and are learning now to swim against the current, it is definitely not easy especially when even the other day we heard of manifestations against masks or measures against covid-19.
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  #15840  
Old 01.11.2020, 15:13
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Re: Coronavirus

I read that you can take the Covid-19 test at pharmacies starting Monday...is it all pharmacies?
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