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Old 07.11.2020, 20:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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Just hamsters on the Wheel of unproductivity.....


Anyway, excuse the pedantry for a moment, but as more and more people live longer with chronic and possibly incurable diseases, palliative care or palliation is being applied earlier in the course of disease...so it‘s not just for the dying - it can help control symptoms like pain, neuropathy, etc in cancer, diabetes, etc.. I have so many friends who‘ve benefitted from it.
The research on palliative care my family worked in for a few decades was based on elderly with medical assistance at their homes, hospices and medical nursing homes.

I also closely know people in their 30-40s with chronic conditions who have palliative units envolved in their treatment, sure.

But I don't want to drag perso stories in this thread, it is a Covid thread. Covid seems to give a new definition to palliative - there wasn't much space for it, understandably. It is logical that palliative care units claim their space even in something so fast and pretty shocking for everyone concerned. I read about medical personnel having the hardest time (emotionally) with quite healthy looking people who walk in, need O2, still talk and text family, eat a bit, then fast ventilation and then pass away. And still keep being relatively contageous. So, a window of few hrs for palliative care and zero pastoral. That is being adjusted, even in the midst of one of the highest death rates in the world.

Anyways.
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  #16242  
Old 07.11.2020, 20:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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Not everything is about CZ, there may be zero pastoral care going on there but that is not the case elsewhere.
You may refer to it as palliative care but calling it that doesn’t make it anything other than what it really is, it is still pastoral care.



I have several friends who work in Swiss hospitals as Chaplains, in multi-faith and no faith teams. Pastoral care is very much alive here in CH, combined with medical, nursing, social and palliative care, Covid or no Covid.
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  #16243  
Old 07.11.2020, 20:24
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Re: Coronavirus

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If it was for your and Marton's predictions and perceptions about coronavirus you would have found China by digging from all the persistence you show no matter how wrong you've been all along
I have no idea what the hell you’re going on about.
Please enlighten me as to my predictions and perceptions regarding Covid.
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  #16244  
Old 07.11.2020, 20:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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I figure she was Ok with your questions for clarification - at least to the extenct she replied, obviously. However, MC was, in your quote, replying to marton's asinine attempt at ridiculing her post. Not everything is about you.

It's far from the first time marton does that. It takes quite a small and petty mind to repeatedly ridicule non-native English speakers for their perhaps less-than-perfect English.
I was not ridiculing a non-native English speaker for their perhaps less-than-perfect English.
I was ridiculing them for failing to say "thank you for the explanation" and instead they gave ever more complex and unbelievable justifications for their statements.
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  #16245  
Old 07.11.2020, 20:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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I have several friends who work in Swiss hospitals as Chaplains, in multi-faith and no faith teams. Pastoral care is very much alive here in CH, combined with medical, nursing, social and palliative care, Covid or no Covid.
We have that too, normally. We stopped when the death rates and contageon got too high. 16000 sick medical personnel, that was a week ago. Covid (I don't have the luxury to say Covid or not Covid). Why I mention other places with more difficult situation is because CH might get there.

It is pretty obvious.

It is not about my terrible English and daring to talk about an Eastern European country.
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  #16246  
Old 07.11.2020, 20:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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Is it Groundhog day again? Stop the personal insults please.

In my country, by the way, palliative care is for people dying, pastoral care for that person and his/her loved ones. So I imagine a lot of people interpret this the same way.
Certainly how I understood it
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  #16247  
Old 07.11.2020, 20:37
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Re: Coronavirus

Some more Easter Euro News - this weekend Czech government and local municipalities are creating extra beds for CV positive recovering patients needing medical staff but no longer ICUs. They need to create a constant flow of patients from hospital to not return them home but wait out the recovery until they test negative. So far they got a stadium ready, boarding schools dorms, medical spa treatment centers and Holiday Inn hotel chain (yay) in Prague.
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  #16248  
Old 07.11.2020, 20:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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I have several friends who work in Swiss hospitals as Chaplains, in multi-faith and no faith teams. Pastoral care is very much alive here in CH, combined with medical, nursing, social and palliative care, Covid or no Covid.
And contrary to what the name might suggest pastoral care is not about religion.
It is about supporting and caring for patients and their families whether that is in a medical or emotional capacity and is just as important as palliative care.
It is just as important, perhaps even more so, now we have Covid and is very much continuing (except in CZ apparently).
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  #16249  
Old 07.11.2020, 20:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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It is not about my terrible English and daring to talk about an Eastern European country.
Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Nobody has ever said that it was either of those things.
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  #16250  
Old 07.11.2020, 20:47
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Re: Coronavirus

Let's hope everything will get better sooner than later. I have faith in people's ability to find solutions and strength even in the most desperate situations.
As for semantics, let's leave it at that. Life is too complicated to waste time with things like that. Some people can admit when they're wrong, others...not. I don't have patience for that.
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  #16251  
Old 07.11.2020, 20:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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I have several friends who work in Swiss hospitals as Chaplains, in multi-faith and no faith teams. Pastoral care is very much alive here in CH, combined with medical, nursing, social and palliative care, Covid or no Covid.
For the patient who got turned away, the other day? 80yr old?

It was in 20min 4 days back or so. I hope he made it to the hospital, I didn't follow up.
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  #16252  
Old 07.11.2020, 21:11
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Re: Coronavirus

Catching up with this bizarre argument.

Palliative care is indeed for those with terminal conditions / chronic illness.
Pastoral care is for those loved ones left behind. The terms may indeed be different in CZ but it strikes me as very odd.

Piety is to do with religion or reverence.

I wondered briefly if MC meant "pity" instead but I'll assume she'll just double down on that as well.

That is me nitpicking about language use btw. As you were.
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  #16253  
Old 07.11.2020, 21:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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The research on palliative care my family worked in for a few decades was based on elderly with medical assistance at their homes, hospices and medical nursing homes.

I also closely know people in their 30-40s with chronic conditions who have palliative units envolved in their treatment, sure.

But I don't want to drag perso stories in this thread, it is a Covid thread. Covid seems to give a new definition to palliative - there wasn't much space for it, understandably. It is logical that palliative care units claim their space even in something so fast and pretty shocking for everyone concerned. I read about medical personnel having the hardest time (emotionally) with quite healthy looking people who walk in, need O2, still talk and text family, eat a bit, then fast ventilation and then pass away. And still keep being relatively contageous. So, a window of few hrs for palliative care and zero pastoral. That is being adjusted, even in the midst of one of the highest death rates in the world.

Anyways.
Fair enough. However your posts about CZ are personal. I don‘t care if they are, sometimes anecdotes are helpful. I also suppose it doesn‘t matter quite so much what Name we give this care - .it‘s caring for patients and their families, maybe the people who care for them too.

And yes, I’ve also seen accounts of how health care workers are exhausted and upended by the unexpected behaviors of the virus.

Makes me sad when when people here, for example, discount the seriousness of the virus. .

PTSD is going to be an issue for years in health care workers and patient families.
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  #16254  
Old 07.11.2020, 21:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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For the patient who got turned away, the other day? 80yr old?

It was in 20min 4 days back or so. I hope he made it to the hospital, I didn't follow up.
Not being admitted to hospital didn’t necessarily mean he received no care.

I didn’t follow up on the story so I have no idea what happened to him but I very much doubt that he was just abandoned. He may well have received at home care provided by organisations like Spitex etc for example.

Lots of places are stretched to the limit at the moment but as far as I know haven’t reached the point of abandoning people and leaving them to die.
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Old 07.11.2020, 21:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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Not being admitted to hospital didn’t necessarily mean he received no care.

I didn’t follow up on the story so I have no idea what happened to him but I very much doubt that he was just abandoned. He may well have received at home care provided by organisations like Spitex etc for example.

Lots of places are stretched to the limit at the moment but as far as I know haven’t reached the point of abandoning people and leaving them to die.
Like you said, he was not abandoned.
He was denied a bed in the ICU, not hospitalisation.
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  #16256  
Old 07.11.2020, 22:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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For the patient who got turned away, the other day? 80yr old?

It was in 20min 4 days back or so. I hope he made it to the hospital, I didn't follow up.
I am sure he got at least palliative care; only hospitals provide curative treatment.
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Old 07.11.2020, 22:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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We have that too, normally. We stopped when the death rates and contageon got too high. 16000 sick medical personnel, that was a week ago. Covid (I don't have the luxury to say Covid or not Covid). Why I mention other places with more difficult situation is because CH might get there.

It is pretty obvious.

It is not about my terrible English and daring to talk about an Eastern European country.
Perceptions.
Actually one of my nationalities is CZ, a fact I shared years ago with some EFers.
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  #16258  
Old 07.11.2020, 22:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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  #16259  
Old 08.11.2020, 07:45
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Re: Coronavirus

Rather clear impact from lockdown in Valais

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Old 08.11.2020, 12:52
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Re: Coronavirus

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Ah, Nathan...
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