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  #16261  
Old 08.11.2020, 15:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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Perceptions.
Actually one of my nationalities is CZ, a fact I shared years ago with some EFers.
You definitely shared this with me. TBH I almost forgot though, it's not very important for me. Probably I also suspected you of some bias against us esties...:Rofl:.
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  #16262  
Old 08.11.2020, 19:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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We have that too, normally. We stopped when the death rates and contageon got too high. 16000 sick medical personnel, that was a week ago. Covid (I don't have the luxury to say Covid or not Covid). Why I mention other places with more difficult situation is because CH might get there.

comparing how things are done in different countries is fine by me. Be it on education, the law, governement, health, and so much more. Fascinating and truly interesting- alwyas has been for me. But you have to make it clear in the discussion, or correct later if and when necessary.


However, if a country, any country but especially countries where perhaps finances and qualified staffing are over-stretched - it makes sense to cut on post mortem care, to have more staff and resources to deal with the living. No?
We are very lucky in Switzerland that we have both.

Last edited by JackieH; 08.11.2020 at 19:14.
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  #16263  
Old 08.11.2020, 19:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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that however, is so bloody rude and arrogant in the extreme.
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  #16264  
Old 08.11.2020, 21:18
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Re: Coronavirus



https://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/11736...intensifs.html

"On Wednesday, the Federal Office of Public Health announced that places would run out in intensive care within five days. Five days later, these services are well and truly overwhelmed, and 34 patients have already been transferred from one canton to another, as the RTS learned on Sunday.
This is an unprecedented situation since the start of the pandemic in Switzerland. According to an investigation by the RTS, which toured the intensive care services in French-speaking Switzerland, the situation is tense in each of them. In total, 34 patients have already been transferred from one establishment in French-speaking Switzerland to another hospital, mainly in German-speaking Switzerland.

In Geneva and Fribourg, 93% of intensive care beds are occupied. In addition, all these cantons have already increased their reception capacity. In the canton of Neuchâtel, there are now 26 intensive care beds compared to 6 before the pandemic."
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  #16265  
Old 08.11.2020, 21:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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https://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/11736...intensifs.html

"On Wednesday, the Federal Office of Public Health announced that places would run out in intensive care within five days. Five days later, these services are well and truly overwhelmed, and 34 patients have already been transferred from one canton to another, as the RTS learned on Sunday.
This is an unprecedented situation since the start of the pandemic in Switzerland. According to an investigation by the RTS, which toured the intensive care services in French-speaking Switzerland, the situation is tense in each of them. In total, 34 patients have already been transferred from one establishment in French-speaking Switzerland to another hospital, mainly in German-speaking Switzerland.

In Geneva and Fribourg, 93% of intensive care beds are occupied. In addition, all these cantons have already increased their reception capacity. In the canton of Neuchâtel, there are now 26 intensive care beds compared to 6 before the pandemic."
What was the percentage of occupation the same week 1 year ago. Generally they have a reasonably high occupancy rate or the no available would be reduced.
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  #16266  
Old 08.11.2020, 21:38
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Re: Coronavirus

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What was the percentage of occupation the same week 1 year ago. Generally they have a reasonably high occupancy rate or the no available would be reduced.
The above occupancy % includes the added extra beds.
For example Neuchâtel who has increased from 6 to 26.

I dont know the occupancy 1 year ago.
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Old 08.11.2020, 21:53
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Re: Coronavirus

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The above occupancy % includes the added extra beds.
For example Neuchâtel who has increased from 6 to 26.
If you do the maths, the 73% occupancy rate in Neuchâtel means 19 of the 26 ICU beds are occupied. They would not have been able to accommodate 13 of those 19 patients until recently, as they used to have just 6 beds.

This is very scary/worrisome to me. I cannot imagine they can increase capacity by much more due to staffing shortages.
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  #16268  
Old 08.11.2020, 22:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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If you do the maths, the 73% occupancy rate in Neuchâtel means 19 of the 26 ICU beds are occupied. They would not have been able to accommodate 13 of those 19 patients until recently, as they used to have just 6 beds.

This is very scary/worrisome to me. I cannot imagine they can increase capacity by much more due to staffing shortages.
According to the latest update on the cantonal website (updated at 10 this morning) 18 intensive care bed are occupied in Neuchâtel so there are 8 available beds. This is lower occupancy than for the previous two days so maybe things are improving.
There are 123 Covid patients in total hospitalised in Neuchâtel at the moment.

Under normal circumstances hospitals reckon on 75% occupency of ICU beds. Without the increased number of beds in Neuchâtel they would have been unable to accommodate two thirds of the patients they currently have and that’s not including the patients who have been transferred to Bern or Lausanne.

It is very worrying indeed.

Last edited by Belgianmum; 08.11.2020 at 22:22.
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  #16269  
Old 08.11.2020, 23:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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Geneva starts to use private clinics to cope with the overflow from HUG. Second wave hospitalisations have exceeded first wave since about a week.
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  #16270  
Old 09.11.2020, 03:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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What was the percentage of occupation the same week 1 year ago. Generally they have a reasonably high occupancy rate or the no available would be reduced.
Typical ICU occupancy is 75-80%. These beds are expensive like hell but you still need a reasonable amount of spare capacity in case disaster strikes.

However, hospitals have been emptying plannable ICU demand as much as they could, so the occupancy by Covid patients in Geneva with their 93% must be much more than 18% of capacity only, as indicated by the difference from the "usual" 75%.

Current numbers don't compare with ordinary numbers, perhaps not even with those from the spring/summer.

ETA:
Here's a chart, yet again from Tagesanzeiger, showing the hospitalised Covid cases in turquois, and ICU cases thereof in red. Extended countrywide ICU capacity is something like 1300 beds (including a couple hundred newly created emergency beds). The eye of the needle however is personnel, Valais for instance doesn't have enough to manage all beds already; covid cases among the personnel definitely don't help. Both are reasons why case numbers must be kept low, and much lower than they are currently.


Last edited by Urs Max; 09.11.2020 at 04:19.
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  #16271  
Old 09.11.2020, 04:43
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Re: Coronavirus

According to today's news (in German) long term problems are farily common. The study hasn't been published yet, and so far it's on 100 patients only (target is 800), thus the numbers should be taken with a sack of salt.

Still, the study found that one in five cases was not fully recovered six months after the positive PCR test. 92 of the 100 cases covered had developed symptoms, 25 had been hospitalised. At least one was been on the ICU (for three months!), the article isn't any clearer.

Other studies have shown much lower rates of long term symptoms. This is work in progress.
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  #16272  
Old 09.11.2020, 05:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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MusicChick, summarizing how we all feel when we read one of her posts.

I have rarely seen someone who can so reliably let loose a steady stream of written consciousness that makes almost no logical sense.
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  #16273  
Old 09.11.2020, 08:08
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Re: Coronavirus

Reported UK cases have tailed off at around 20,000 per day for two and a half weeks now. Some way off the scenario of doom from Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance. Also a long way off from the Imperial College model of nearly 100,000 cases a day.

Here is another deeply troubling impact of lockdown not forecast by the experts.

'Toxic lockdown' sees huge rise in babies harmed or killed

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-54827702

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that however, is so bloody rude and arrogant in the extreme.
Are you able to explain this? I tried to read back but it's difficult to follow what's caused this reaction

Last edited by TonyClifton; 09.11.2020 at 08:32.
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  #16274  
Old 09.11.2020, 08:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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Reported UK cases have tailed off at around 20,000 per day for two and a half weeks now.
So you agree lockdowns or near lockdowns work then? The 7 day average levelled off at the end of October, at that time a high proportion of the country - and basically all the areas with high infection numbers - were in level 2 or level 3 restrictions.
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Also a long way off from the Imperial College model of nearly 100,000 cases a day.
Sigh. Yet again, that was a projection for a scenario with minimal mitigation measures only, the UK has had a more severe regime than that since end March. This has been explained to you multiple times but of course you still choose to ignore it as it doesn't fit into your political narrative.

Switzerland is a nice example of what happens when you do little more than mitigation - the 10,000 per day here equates to 80,000 daily in the UK.
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Old 09.11.2020, 08:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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So you agree lockdowns or near lockdowns work then? The 7 day average levelled off at the end of October, at that time a high proportion of the country - and basically all the areas with high infection numbers - were in level 2 or level 3 restrictions.

Sigh. Yet again, that was a projection for a scenario with minimal mitigation measures only, the UK has had a more severe regime than that since end March. This has been explained to you multiple times but of course you still choose to ignore it as it doesn't fit into your political narrative.

Switzerland is a nice example of what happens when you do little more than mitigation - the 10,000 per day here equates to 80,000 daily in the UK.
Wrong. The Imperial model was made after the three tier system was brought into place. Cases levelled off around 21st October, Tier system came into place (in England) on 14th October so too short a time to see any effect on the numbers.
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Old 09.11.2020, 08:48
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Re: Coronavirus

Reading articles like this in 20min concern me...

https://www.20min.ch/story/corona-ve...g-842948869266

The article is quotes from a variety of teens who are ready to kill themselves because they can't go party with their friends. As someone who has suffered from depression since my teens, I can't fathom suicide from a temporary limit on my social life...is that really the case for these kids? Aside from the suicide threats, they complain about not being able to do the things they want to do. Why is it they think they are the only ones who are suffering during this pandemic? Never mind the rather extreme privilege and freedom most Swiss teens have been raised in comparison to many countries.

I can very much understand the feeling of uncertainty for young people and concerns on what their future life, education and employment possibilities will be...but it seems that are just pissed not to party and go about their lives as per usual. This article isn't the exception and what I have experienced from other sources too.
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  #16277  
Old 09.11.2020, 08:50
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Re: Coronavirus

I usually take 20minutes articles with a large pinch of salt...
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Old 09.11.2020, 09:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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Wrong. The Imperial model was made after the three tier system was brought into place. Cases levelled off around 21st October, Tier system came into place (in England) on 14th October so too short a time to see any effect on the numbers.
Ah you meant that one. That wasn't a projection, it was an infection survey. It was an estimate of the true level of actual infections based on random (survey techniques) testing of a sample of the population to estimate the proportion of the population currently with Covid.

The estimate was current infections of near 600,000 people in England, hence the near 100,000 per day given a typical 7 day duration of the disease. The difference to the number of reported cases is a combination of under-testing and people not getting themselves tested.

Again, please try to actually read and understand what you are using.

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2.Number of people in England who had COVID-19
During the most recent week of the study, we estimate that 568,100 people in England had the coronavirus (COVID-19) (95% credible interval: 536,500 to 600,400).¹ This equates to 1.04% (95% credible interval: 0.98% to 1.10%) of the population in England or around 1 in 100 people (95% credible interval: 1 in 100 to 1 in 90). The ratios presented are rounded to the nearest 10. This is based on statistical modelling of the trend in rates of positive nose and throat swab results.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat.../30october2020
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Old 09.11.2020, 09:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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Reading articles like this in 20min concern me...

https://www.20min.ch/story/corona-ve...g-842948869266

The article is quotes from a variety of teens who are ready to kill themselves because they can't go party with their friends. As someone who has suffered from depression since my teens, I can't fathom suicide from a temporary limit on my social life...is that really the case for these kids? Aside from the suicide threats, they complain about not being able to do the things they want to do. Why is it they think they are the only ones who are suffering during this pandemic? Never mind the rather extreme privilege and freedom most Swiss teens have been raised in comparison to many countries.

I can very much understand the feeling of uncertainty for young people and concerns on what their future life, education and employment possibilities will be...but it seems that are just pissed not to party and go about their lives as per usual. This article isn't the exception and what I have experienced from other sources too.
Well, for some teens future life, education and employment possibilities are already accomplished things by 19 YO. Already finished the job training, living independently and pretty much settled in a job. On the other hand, the limit in parties is 5-15 people depending on the canton. If someone complains about having more than 15 friends......I'm the one shooting myself

About being the only ones suffering during the pandemic....the adult equivalents are the independent workers/freelancers. In their words everything is harder for them. I'm already joking about giving medals for surviving the pandemic as freelancer.
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Old 09.11.2020, 10:15
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Re: Coronavirus

This made me laugh. A bit.

BAG recommends showering before having a one night stand.

It's not clear whether the recommendation is to shower alone, or with your temporary partner, a lot of soap, and a loofah. But some boring, probably married killjoy says it won't help anyway.

Yep, good ol' 20 Minuten, again (in German).
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