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Old 10.11.2020, 11:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think they've given about 1000 people the jab, and one of those has an adverse reaction (possibly not related to the vaccine), when does the number of potential adverse reactions outweigh the Covid risks?
Not sure if you're talking about the Sinovac or Pfizer tests but in both cases it's a long way above 1,000 tests. Sinovac was 9,000 people in Brazil alone a few weeks ago, presumably more now, worldwide perhaps 20,000 with one reported adverse effect that may or may not be due to the vaccine. Pfizer are up to 43,538 participants (of whom 50% will have received the Pfizer vaccine) with no significant adverse effects.

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Chance of dyeing from covid to the general population under 65 is slim, 3 in 1000 deaths from from a vaccine is worse than the risk from COVID.

If you are 90 & likely to be dead in 18 months, not sure it's worth taking the risk either.
So now explain how you jump from one possible adverse reaction to 3 deaths? Or do you actually mean what you wrote - dyeing - and people are being dipped in dyes?

BTW life expectancy at age 90 is about 5 years.
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  #16342  
Old 10.11.2020, 11:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think they've given about 1000 people the jab, and one of those has an adverse reaction (possibly not related to the vaccine), when does the number of potential adverse reactions outweigh the Covid risks?
1000 is hardly a sample, especially in the context of clinical trials.

I would happily let someone else take my place in the queue and see how the trial plays out in the real world.
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  #16343  
Old 10.11.2020, 11:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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So now explain how you jump from one possible adverse reaction to 3 deaths?
If you bothered to read & understood what I was replying to, you would not need to answer the question.
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  #16344  
Old 10.11.2020, 11:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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If you bothered to read & understood what I was replying to, you would not need to answer the question.
You replied - your quote - to someone who (incorrectly) referred to 1,000 tests and one non-fatal adverse effect. So you reacted by conjuring up 3 deaths per 1,000 out of absolutely nowhere.

Maybe you meant something else. But that is what you wrote.
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  #16345  
Old 10.11.2020, 11:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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You replied - your quote - to someone who (incorrectly) referred to 1,000 tests and one non-fatal adverse effect. So you reacted by conjuring up 3 deaths per 1,000 out of absolutely nowhere.

Maybe you meant something else. But that is what you wrote.
But he will never ever admit it because losing face on EF is worse than corona, apparently.
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  #16346  
Old 10.11.2020, 11:38
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Re: Coronavirus

The incident with the swineflu vaccine causing Narcolepsy in some ppl springs to mind.
I am also not anti vaccine, but not in a rush to get something that has been fast tracked injected.
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  #16347  
Old 10.11.2020, 11:38
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Re: Coronavirus

The discussion about willing to try is a bit funny. Just stop for a moment to consider it won't exist in plentiful quantities for several months (years?). People will pay, fight and considering stabbing others to have a shorter waiting time. Thus the careful attitude of letting others try first may means waiting a long long time in real life.

But, we're humans. As soon as we see others having a thing we don't have yet.....we run and fight for it So, it will be real fun to see people changing mind a month after the vaccine is released.
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Old 10.11.2020, 11:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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But he will never ever admit it because losing face on EF is worse than corona, apparently.
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You replied - your quote - to someone who (incorrectly) referred to 1,000 tests and one non-fatal adverse effect. So you reacted by conjuring up 3 deaths per 1,000 out of absolutely nowhere.

Maybe you meant something else. But that is what you wrote.
[QUOTE=Ato;3237507 when does the number of potential adverse reactions outweigh the Covid risks?[/QUOTE]

Since I was replying to this, I gave a no.
Looks like the bullies are out in force again, what a surprise.
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  #16349  
Old 10.11.2020, 11:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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The discussion about willing to try is a bit funny. Just stop for a moment to consider it won't exist in plentiful quantities for several months (years?). People will pay, fight and considering stabbing others to have a shorter waiting time. Thus the careful attitude of letting others try first may means waiting a long long time in real life.

But, we're humans. As soon as we see others having a thing we don't have yet.....we run and fight for it So, it will be real fun to see people changing mind a month after the vaccine is released.
Yeah. But I do hope it will be first administered to the elderly, chronically ill, medical staff etc. In this order.

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Since I was replying to this, I gave a no.
Looks like the bullies are out in force again, what a surprise.


The irony.
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  #16350  
Old 10.11.2020, 11:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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And why is that? Serious question.
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The time scale is just too short in my opinion.
Longer answer because I have more time to write this morning.

Basically I think they need to do much more testing before releasing it onto the general public.

It is a mRNA vaccine and there are currently no mRNA vaccines licenced for use in humans. If it was a vaccine of the same type as the ones currently being used and which we know a lot about it would be different but as it stands at the moment I would be hesitant to take a novel vaccine that has been fast tracked through all the trial phases.
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Old 10.11.2020, 11:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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Longer answer because I have more time to write this morning.

Basically I think they need to do much more testing before releasing it onto the general public.

It is a mRNA vaccine and there are currently no mRNA vaccines licenced for use in humans. If it was a vaccine of the same type as the ones currently being used and which we know a lot about it would be different but as it stands at the moment I would be hesitant to take a novel vaccine that has been fast tracked through all the trial phases.
Assuming a similar level of testing and results, would you be more prepared to take the Astra-Zenica vaccine then? This has a more conventional approach.
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Old 10.11.2020, 11:57
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Re: Coronavirus

I agree that vulnerable ppl and frontline workers should be favoured.
However it kind of opens another discusssion, personally I am not willing to take it atm due to the time aspect. Do I really want system critical ppl such as health care workers to subject themselves?
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Old 10.11.2020, 12:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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I agree that vulnerable ppl and frontline workers should be favoured.
However it kind of opens another discusssion, personally I am not willing to take it atm due to the time aspect. Do I really want system critical ppl such as health care workers to subject themselves?
They are already subjected to something what still seems even bigger. And so are teachers, day care staff, pharmacies..etc. The risk management has changed already.
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  #16354  
Old 10.11.2020, 12:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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Assuming a similar level of testing and results, would you be more prepared to take the Astra-Zenica vaccine then? This has a more conventional approach.
I’m not sure.
Although more is known about viral vector vaccines, which is what the Astra Zeneca/Oxford vaccine is, there are still only two vaccines of this type approved for use in humans and they’re both for Ebola.

Ideally I would like more longer term testing for both of them before they were rolled out to the general public but appreciate that time is of the essence here.
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Old 10.11.2020, 12:38
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think they've given about 1000 people the jab, and one of those has an adverse reaction (possibly not related to the vaccine), when does the number of potential adverse reactions outweigh the Covid risks?
Nope. Pfizer have a sample size of over 43k.

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Chance of dyeing from covid to the general population under 65 is slim, 3 in 1000 deaths from from a vaccine is worse than the risk from COVID.

If you are 90 & likely to be dead in 18 months, not sure it's worth taking the risk either.
Based on what? Plenty of folk under 65 have died. Being over 50 makes you more vulnerable.

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Not sure if you're talking about the Sinovac or Pfizer tests but in both cases it's a long way above 1,000 tests. Sinovac was 9,000 people in Brazil alone a few weeks ago, presumably more now, worldwide perhaps 20,000 with one reported adverse effect that may or may not be due to the vaccine. Pfizer are up to 43,538 participants (of whom 50% will have received the Pfizer vaccine) with no significant adverse effects.


So now explain how you jump from one possible adverse reaction to 3 deaths? Or do you actually mean what you wrote - dyeing - and people are being dipped in dyes?

BTW life expectancy at age 90 is about 5 years.
This.





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If you bothered to read & understood what I was replying to, you would not need to answer the question.
If you bothered to write more clearly there likely wouldn't be any confusion. Plus you were responding to an inaccurate post.

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You replied - your quote - to someone who (incorrectly) referred to 1,000 tests and one non-fatal adverse effect. So you reacted by conjuring up 3 deaths per 1,000 out of absolutely nowhere.

Maybe you meant something else. But that is what you wrote.
Exactly.

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But he will never ever admit it because losing face on EF is worse than corona, apparently.


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Looks like the bullies are out in force again, what a surprise.
Oh give over.
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  #16356  
Old 10.11.2020, 13:06
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Re: Coronavirus

Todays posted numbers (for monday) 5980 out of 22k tests

243 hospitalisations
107 death
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Old 10.11.2020, 13:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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Todays posted numbers (for monday) 5980 out of 22k tests

243 hospitalisations
107 death
6126 this time last week
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  #16358  
Old 10.11.2020, 13:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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6126 this time last week

Sounds promising? Unless it will just Yo-yo all winter.
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Old 10.11.2020, 13:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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Sounds promising? Unless it will just Yo-yo all winter.
Either yo-yo all winter or it'll go away again as the second wave has naturally run its course for the time being. Who knows?
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Old 10.11.2020, 13:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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Sounds promising? Unless it will just Yo-yo all winter.
Let me give you a generic expert answer:
It's too early to draw conclusions.
The r-rate is still too high.
The government needs to take more measures.
It's not over yet.
(pick one or more)
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