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  #17401  
Old 02.12.2020, 15:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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Covid19 - The End Game begins:

The UK becomes the first country in the world to approve the Pfizer/BioNtech vaccine
against Covid19, following regulatory approval immunisations are expected to start within
days in Britain.

BBC News - Covid Pfizer vaccine approved for use next week in the UK
Potential Crisis at No. 10 as the distribution & vaccination of people in the UK against Covid 19
could be affected by the ongoing delays at the port of Felixstowe and the upcoming Brexit
delays at all other ports, due to the end of the transition period of UK - EU trade on the
31st December 2020 bearing in mind the vaccines produced in Belgium.

London Daily - Felixstowe port in chaos as Christmas and Brexit loom

Last edited by John William; 02.12.2020 at 15:59.
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  #17402  
Old 02.12.2020, 16:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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Potential Crisis at No. 10 as the distribution & vaccination of people in the UK against Covid 19
could be affected by the ongoing delays at the port of Felixstowe and the upcoming Brexit
delays at all other ports, due to the end of the transition period of UK - EU trade on the
31st December 2020 bearing in mind the vaccines produced in Belgium.

London Daily - Felixstowe port in chaos as Christmas and Brexit loom
Will anyway be a challenge to plan as nobody seems to know how long the vaccine conferred immunity will last.
It would be a shame if the immunity runs out before they finished the vaccinations and then have to start the second wave of vaccine distribution.
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  #17403  
Old 02.12.2020, 17:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...vered-patients

A study published yesterday in JAMA Internal Medicine of 175 patients who recovered from mild COVID-19 reveals wide variation in the levels of antibodies against the novel coronavirus, ranging from very high levels in 2 patients to undetectable levels in 10—but no significant difference in illness duration.

Researchers from Fudan University in Shanghai, China, measured antibody levels in COVID-19 patients released from Shanghai Public Health Clinical Center after being hospitalized from Jan 24 to Feb 26.

Of the 175 patients, 165 (94%) had significantly higher levels of COVID-19 antibodies than 13 uninfected controls in the convalescent phase of infection. Antibody levels were medium-low in 29 patients (17%), medium-high in 69 patients (39%), and high in 25 patients (14%).
You are understandably confused. You think that only people with high anti-body titer are immune (protected) from Covid. This is a 5th grader understanding of human immune system. Please read more on the topic.
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  #17404  
Old 02.12.2020, 17:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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Another Swedish U-turn
Expect more of the same, reportedly Tegnell Anders has been sidelined.
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Using Covid seropositivity to state immunity prevalence in population is naive and inaccurate. You can try to guestimate how many people have been already infected and have natural immunity by using seropositivity as a starting point only. For example, if Switzerland has 5% seropositive population you can guesstimate that the real number of people with natural immunity is 5 to 10 times greater.
Thus we would not need that many doses of vaccine to achieve complete remission of pandemic (until the next season when it inevitably comes back).
You sound like Ioannidis, sans his expertise. According to his predictions the entire US population has been infected about twice by now.
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  #17405  
Old 02.12.2020, 17:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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You are understandably confused. You think that only people with high anti-body titer are immune (protected) from Covid. This is a 5th grader understanding of human immune system. Please read more on the topic.
You seem nice.

I merely quoted a study that seems to disagree with your statement that the majority of recovered patients would not have antibodies.
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  #17406  
Old 02.12.2020, 17:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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Potential Crisis at No. 10 as the distribution & vaccination of people in the UK against Covid 19
could be affected by the ongoing delays at the port of Felixstowe and the upcoming Brexit
delays at all other ports, due to the end of the transition period of UK - EU trade on the
31st December 2020 bearing in mind the vaccines produced in Belgium.

London Daily - Felixstowe port in chaos as Christmas and Brexit loom
Given that the number 1 vaccine producers in Europe will be the UK and then Switzerland, its really a crisis for everyone except in the UK if what you say is true.
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  #17407  
Old 02.12.2020, 17:24
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Re: Coronavirus

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Expect more of the same, reportedly Tegnell Anders has been sidelined.

You sound like Ioannidis, sans his expertise. According to his predictions the entire US population has been infected about twice by now.
Straw men much?
Many here have a hard time to understand quite simple concepts. Detectable anti-bodies are not the measure of immunity prevalence in population. However it could be used to estimate how many people were already infected with Covid based on % of severe cases in a population. Sever cases n. = cases with detectable anti-bodies.
Everyone who have been infected with Covid will develop natural immunity to it, whether detectable or not does not matter.

I hope you get it now.
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  #17408  
Old 02.12.2020, 17:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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Potential Crisis at No. 10 as the distribution & vaccination of people in the UK against Covid 19 could be affected by the ongoing delays at the port of Felixstowe and the upcoming Brexit delays at all other ports, due to the end of the transition period of UK - EU trade on the 31st December 2020 bearing in mind the vaccines produced in Belgium.
I'm sure exceptions can be made allowing the articulated lorries to queue-jump and be expedited through any border controls. And it is very unlikely that there will be any stowaways on a truck chilled to -70C
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  #17409  
Old 02.12.2020, 17:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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Even the Reich Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda would be envious of your comparison techniques

Finland and Norway together have the population of Sweden and they are 70% and 40% less populated than Sweden
OK so please comment on this
"630 deaths so far registered as a result of Covid-19 in Sweden this month, representing a death rate per capita ten times that of Norway, where just 30 deaths were recorded between October 28 and November 25."
"Per capita" takes account of the different population sizes.
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  #17410  
Old 02.12.2020, 17:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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Straw men much?
Many here have a hard time to understand quite simple concepts. Detectable anti-bodies are not the measure of immunity prevalence in population. However it could be used to estimate how many people were already infected with Covid based on % of severe cases in a population. Sever cases n. = cases with detectable anti-bodies.
Everyone who have been infected with Covid will develop natural immunity to it, whether detectable or not does not matter.

I hope you get it now.
Why do you keep posting about immunity?
This subtopic is about Covid seropositivity testing to estimate the %ge of Swiss people infected with COVID-19, nobody else here has used the word "immunity" in this context.
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  #17411  
Old 02.12.2020, 18:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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I hope everything will go well
EU has already criticized the decision as neither the EMA nor FDA have approved it. A reminder, under normal circumstances vaccine development can take up to a decade or longer with more than 90% of them failing.

Risk/benefit ratio question but there are a lot of question still about this vaccine being touted as a miracle.
  1. The vaccine was proven effective in reducing symptoms not transmission
  2. The vaccine was tested against the base strain (We know there are at least 6 variants) so we have no idea on its effectiveness against other mutations much less the fact that inadequate research has been done to assess the impact or differences of these other strains
  3. That duration of protection from symptoms? This cannot possibly be answered yet due to the obvious lack of FU.
  4. Safety FU long-term - this is a pandora's box atm
  5. This was an EUA application from Pfizer but none of their data has actually been published or peer reviewed - seems like a small point but this is a measure of quality control that is being left to federal regulatory agencies that are usually not staffed to provide rapid & substantial scrutiny & feedback

Not being cynical, just cautious
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  #17412  
Old 02.12.2020, 19:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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[*]...seems like a small point but this is a measure of quality control that is being left to federal regulatory agencies that are usually not staffed to provide rapid & substantial scrutiny & feedback
Worked for the 737Max...
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  #17413  
Old 02.12.2020, 19:43
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Re: Coronavirus

The highlight of today's Number 10 Downing Street news conference with Boris's 'choice of words' conjuring
up all sorts of images in his speech.

It is almost a year since humanity has been tormented by Covid, across the world economic output
has plummeted and a million & half people have died; we have been waiting and hoping for the day
when the searchlights of science would pick out our invisible enemy and give us the power to
stop that enemy from making us ill & now the scientists have done it and they have used
the virus itself to perform a kind of biological jiu jitsu, to turn the virus on itself in the form
of a vaccine.
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Surely the time has come for Boris to 'circle the wagons' for a bit of herd immunity ?
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  #17414  
Old 02.12.2020, 21:50
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Re: Coronavirus

Does anyone know what cycle threshold is used for the PCR tests in Switzerland?

WHO guidelines state 45 cycles, and I understand Switzerland follows WHO guidelines closely, but I can't find anything about the cycle threshold.

My basic knowledge about PCR is that the more cycles you do, the less meaningful the results.

I wonder what the gen is for the rapid antigen tests and the serlogical tests?
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  #17415  
Old 02.12.2020, 22:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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According to this group of 12 Swiss universities around 3% to 11% of the Swiss (varies by Canton) were infected up to the end of October.

Attachment 140813
My reply was to this post that demonstrates you are posting links to data you don't understand and make conclusions that are incorrect.

You've connected seropositivity with an overall infection rate for cantons. I've tried to help you understand your error that is all.
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  #17416  
Old 02.12.2020, 22:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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My reply was to this post that demonstrates you are posting links to data you don't understand and make conclusions that are incorrect.

You've connected seropositivity with an overall infection rate for cantons. I've tried to help you understand your error that is all.
I did not connect seropositivity with an overall infection rate for cantons, that was the 12 Swiss universities that I linked to.
I recommend you follow my link and tell them where they went wrong.
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  #17417  
Old 03.12.2020, 06:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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Straw men much?
Many here have a hard time to understand quite simple concepts. Detectable anti-bodies are not the measure of immunity prevalence in population. However it could be used to estimate how many people were already infected with Covid based on % of severe cases in a population. Sever cases n. = cases with detectable anti-bodies.
Everyone who have been infected with Covid will develop natural immunity to it, whether detectable or not does not matter.

I hope you get it now.
No strawman, that's exactly what Ioannidis did. And he failed miserably, despite his far superior expertise.

Perhaps you get it now.
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Potential Crisis at No. 10 as the distribution & vaccination of people in the UK against Covid 19 could be affected by the ongoing delays at the port of Felixstowe and the upcoming Brexit delays at all other ports, due to the end of the transition period of UK - EU trade on the 31st December 2020 bearing in mind the vaccines produced in Belgium.
There's always choppers and planes. The value density, plus the need to keep at least one vaccine at -70°C, may well make the transport costs pale in comparison to other aspects.
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  #17418  
Old 03.12.2020, 08:06
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Re: Coronavirus

Dry ice is quite common and relatively easy to make. It is typically at -78.5°C. Logistics difficult but not impossible. In the third world more difficult but still not impossible.
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  #17419  
Old 03.12.2020, 09:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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My reply was to this post that demonstrates you are posting links to data you don't understand and make conclusions that are incorrect.

You've connected seropositivity with an overall infection rate for cantons. I've tried to help you understand your error that is all.
I think seropositivity doesnt detects t-cells immunity
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  #17420  
Old 03.12.2020, 11:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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It says at least one person from each group has to do it so if you are alone then you do it, if you are with others just one person has to do it but more can if they wish.
It says if you are part of a group of people then one person from the group has to give contact details. It says nothing about a person sitting alone at a table having to give contact details!
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