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  #17561  
Old 06.12.2020, 14:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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All Anti-Vaxxers Ive met are in the exactly same people who are in Trump supporters, climate change deniers and in "whole covid is conspiracy to get the power to Bill Gates" groups so would not call them exactly sharpest pencils in the drawer
interesting places you visiting
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  #17562  
Old 06.12.2020, 15:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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Well, I death in a million from having a vaccination is regrettable, but still a lot better than the numbers that will die from the disease.
I agree... But I think we really do need to be careful. I mean, a vaccine could potentially have long-term effects that require time to manifest -- particularly a vaccine that was rushed in development and through trials. We don't want to give a huge percentage of the population a vaccine that could, for example, end up proving to damage the nervous system.

Curiously, has the development of a new vaccine ever been rushed like this before, in human history?

(By the way, I am not at all anti-vaccine. I just think we need to be careful in terms of a rushed vaccine that is given to a huge percentage of the human population).
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  #17563  
Old 06.12.2020, 15:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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The poll in the other thread had 48% definitely getting it and another 19% probably. So in this case you don't recall correctly!
Yes. Thank you. Somehow I had missed that other thread altogether! Only noticed it today. Or else I'd not really noticed that it and this were separate threads.

The whole topic of Corona/Covid19 seems so all-encompassing, like a heavy, sodden blanket that weighs down on us, or trips us up, or even when it doesn't, someone else will soon be along to talk about it. Recently, I spent an evening with a friend, and we shared so many other topics that we actually didn't mention this for a whole four hours... it was lovely. Otherwise, it seems to creep into every interaction, one way or another.
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  #17564  
Old 06.12.2020, 17:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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They're using military planes.
I'm somewhat surprised by this. Usually, foreign military isn't accepted nilly-willy due to sovereignty issues. Belgium's government isn't mentioned even once however, let alone a formal agreement. As if permission to use Belgium's airspace and land there was a given.

Does the UK military have some kind of permanent landing rights in Belgium? Perhaps from WW2?
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  #17565  
Old 06.12.2020, 18:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'm somewhat surprised by this. Usually, foreign military isn't accepted nilly-willy due to sovereignty issues. Belgium's government isn't mentioned even once however, let alone a formal agreement. As if permission to use Belgium's airspace and land there was a given.

Does the UK military have some kind of permanent landing rights in Belgium? Perhaps from WW2?
More likely NATO related. Or just that they are military aircraft but operating as civil (they would only be transporters and not armed)
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Old 06.12.2020, 18:30
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Re: Coronavirus

Unarmed freighters would be allowed to even transit Swiss airspace without anything more than a simple notification. UK unarmed military aircraft* performing a humanitarian mission would need to notify Belgium but they are allies and permission would be granted. Perhaps they would even use Belgium military airfields, perhaps a commercial airport.

The Belgiums would be happy to help.

*The crew could even be carrying side arms, that wouldn’t be unusual.
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  #17567  
Old 06.12.2020, 19:18
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Re: Coronavirus

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A theory that is in no way harmed by the fact that at least 40,000 people have now received a Covid mRNA vaccine without a single one dying from it.
40,000 having had the vaccine is incorrect, 40,000 have been in a trial, half of which would have had a placebo. I thought you were better informed.
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  #17568  
Old 06.12.2020, 19:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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40,000 having had the vaccine is incorrect, 40,000 have been in a trial, half of which would have had a placebo. I thought you were better informed.
The Pfizer phase 3 alone had 43000 participants.
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  #17569  
Old 06.12.2020, 19:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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The Pfizer phase 3 alone had 43000 participants.
So just 21,500 have had the vaccine.
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  #17570  
Old 06.12.2020, 19:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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So just 21,500 have had the vaccine.
Read the Pfizer press release. There are also a number of phase 3 tests with other vaccine candidates.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-re...vid-19-vaccine
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  #17571  
Old 06.12.2020, 19:50
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Re: Coronavirus

Moderna's phase 3 trial had 30,000 participants.
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  #17572  
Old 06.12.2020, 20:00
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Re: Coronavirus

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Read the Pfizer press release. There are also a number of phase 3 tests with other vaccine candidates.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-re...vid-19-vaccine
I didn't see his post until you quoted it, but the article, which he clearly didn't read in any detail, even says:

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The Phase 3 clinical trial of BNT162b2 began on July 27 and has enrolled 43,661 participants to date, 41,135 of whom have received a second dose of the vaccine candidate as of November 13, 2020.
Not very bright.
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  #17573  
Old 06.12.2020, 20:33
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Re: Coronavirus

Impactful article on those we have lost during this pandemic ... not common to see such stories in Swiss Media. Particularly striking is the rather young patient who died because the hospital was full in November:

https://interaktiv.bernerzeitung.ch/...n-der-schweiz/
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  #17574  
Old 06.12.2020, 20:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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I didn't see his post until you quoted it, but the article, which he clearly didn't read in any detail, even says:



Not very bright.
Posted in reply to my post so I could not have seen it first. Your personal attacks are usually better than that.

First prize for not being very bright goes to XXXX,
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  #17575  
Old 06.12.2020, 20:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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Impactful article on those we have lost during this pandemic ... not common to see such stories in Swiss Media. Particularly striking is the rather young patient who died because the hospital was full in November:

https://interaktiv.bernerzeitung.ch/...n-der-schweiz/
I lost both my uncle and aunt to COVID this week, they died within two days of each other.
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  #17576  
Old 06.12.2020, 21:04
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Re: Coronavirus

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I lost both my uncle and aunt to COVID this week, they died within two days of each other.
Sorry for your loss.
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  #17577  
Old 06.12.2020, 21:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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There was one reported death across all the tests, a suicide in Brazil. Not sure if that was someone who had the covid vaccine or the placebo (think I possibly read the latter). The case referred to in earlier posts wasn't fatal.

In all 3 tests I've followed (the main 3 and as far as possible with publically available data), the few that actually contracted Covid did not develop severe symptoms.
At least in the AZ study there probably isn't enough data for that to be conclusively proved. 30 infections in total was it? What's the expectation level on a severe case? About 1?
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  #17578  
Old 06.12.2020, 21:38
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Re: Coronavirus

(YT) What you always wanted to know about the main vaccines (but were afraid to ask)
Moderna vs Pfizer/BioNTech vs AstraZeneca/Oxford

An overview how they work, and the main characteristics of the AZ/Oxford test.
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  #17579  
Old 06.12.2020, 21:39
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Re: Coronavirus

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I don't know anything about vaccine trials.

In these trials, one group gets the vaccine and one doesn't. Clear enough. After that, are both sets of participants deliberately exposed to Covid, or do they just go out and live life as usual? If deliberately exposed: for how long, how much, etc.?

If the results companies have shared so far are only based on potential community spread, then the effectiveness is not necessarily that high. However if every person who was vaccinated "sniffed" the virus or whatever and still didn't get sick then that would be more impressive.

Hopefully that makes sense.
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Old 06.12.2020, 21:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I don't know anything about vaccine trials.

In these trials, one group gets the vaccine and one doesn't. Clear enough. After that, are both sets of participants deliberately exposed to Covid, or do they just go out and live life as usual? If deliberately exposed: for how long, how much, etc.?

If the results companies have shared so far are only based on potential community spread, then the effectiveness is not necessarily that high. However if every person who was vaccinated "sniffed" the virus or whatever and still didn't get sick then that would be more impressive.

Hopefully that makes sense.
It does, but no, intentional exposure/infection (human challenge trial) is considered unethical. I seem to remember that there would have been enough volunteers at least for the Moderna test but still, no. At least that's the situation for the three main candidates.
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