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Old 06.12.2020, 22:10
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Re: Coronavirus

44,000 people took part in the Pfizer study. Half of them the vaccine, half of them a placebo. Then they sent them their merry way - and possibly expose themselves to the virus naturally.

They registered 170 cases of COVID-19: 8 from the vaccine group, 162 from the placebo group.

So the vaccine efficacy was more or less (162-8) / 162 * 100 = 95 %.
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  #17582  
Old 06.12.2020, 22:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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44,000 people took part in the Pfizer study. Half of them the vaccine, half of them a placebo. Then they sent them their merry way - and possibly expose themselves to the virus naturally.

They registered 170 cases of COVID-19: 8 from the vaccine group, 162 from the placebo group.

So the vaccine efficacy was more or less (162-8) / 162 * 100 = 95 %.
But doesn't that also depend upon what the "merry way" is? For example, I am working from home so I'm not around anyone for 15 minutes except my spouse. I go grocery shopping once a week. I'd probably count in that 95% effective even though my "merry way" isn't the same as the next person. That's all I'm thinking.
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  #17583  
Old 06.12.2020, 22:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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But doesn't that also depend upon what the "merry way" is? For example, I am working from home so I'm not around anyone for 15 minutes except my spouse. I go grocery shopping once a week. I'd probably count in that 95% effective even though my "merry way" isn't the same as the next person. That's all I'm thinking.
That is the trick with trials, to match the people taking the placebo with the people taking the real vaccine so you compare like with like.
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  #17584  
Old 07.12.2020, 00:20
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Re: Coronavirus

So where have we reached so far in the Pandemic ?

Well with the UK and the US leading the drive for a mass vaccination program following regulatory
approval of the Covid19 vaccines, it will undoutedly have a significant impact in the
battle against Covid19 and our future lives, as the vaccination program spreads to
other countries.

The bad news is that it could well take months or possibly years to vaccinate enough of the
global population to make the whole interconnected world safe & reach a point of
normality that we had before the Pandemic.

So social distancing, facemasks and work from home solutions are likely to be with us for
some time to come.

BBC News - Will a vaccine give us our old lives back ?

Meanwhile here's life in the post-Covid office environment ( now called the Vaccine plus
post-Covid world ) with precautions and 'work from home' solutions still taking place.

BBC News - This is what the Covid-19 Pandemic did to our offices and homes by 2025
__________________
Surely the time has come for Boris to 'circle the wagons' for a bit of herd immunity ?
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  #17585  
Old 07.12.2020, 00:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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40,000 having had the vaccine is incorrect, 40,000 have been in a trial, half of which would have had a placebo. I thought you were better informed.
We were talking about mRNA vaccines. 43,000 in the Pfizer trial and about 35,000 Moderna. 50% or slightly more got the vaccine so yes, about 40,000 getting an mRNA vaccine and not dying.

BTW I believe there are other mRNA vaccines in phase 3 trials so the actual total is higher.
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  #17586  
Old 07.12.2020, 09:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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One does have to wonder what kind of permanent or long-term effects this pandemic will come to have in terms of precautions and human behavior in general. We're all essentially being conditioned to fear one another, to some extent; and I'm not sure how easily that can really be reversed. (I found myself wondering that last night as I was in the hallway of our building and trying to keep a distance from my elderly neighbor).
I think saying "we are being conditioned to fear one another" is perhaps a tad dramatic and exaggerated. During a pandemic situation people are the carriers and we are being told to socially distance, so it's understandable that people are cautious.

When the pandemic is over I hope it leads to bit more sensible personal contact between strangers, such as not having to shake everyone's hand all the time. Knowing guys, probably around half of them that you shake hands with probably didn't properly wash/clean their hands after going to the toilet, or after blowing their nose or sneezing etc. If I can not have to shake a crowd of peoples hands again at work then I will be happy about that, especially in Winter time.

I also hope that it will and more sensible and mindful behaviours in general with regard to hygiene, such as more frequent hand washing and having more sanitizers around etc. Covering your mouth when you cough of sneeze. Also just being more aware of personal space.

These things aren't just good for COVID, it's an effective way of stopping transmission of all kinds of things in general.
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  #17587  
Old 07.12.2020, 09:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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Covering your mouth when you cough of sneeze. Also just being more aware of personal space.
so being more swede?
actually, sneeze/cough to elbow i learn when arrived to Sweden
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  #17588  
Old 07.12.2020, 09:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think saying "we are being conditioned to fear one another" is perhaps a tad dramatic and exaggerated. During a pandemic situation people are the carriers and we are being told to socially distance, so it's understandable that people are cautious.

When the pandemic is over I hope it leads to bit more sensible personal contact between strangers, such as not having to shake everyone's hand all the time. Knowing guys, probably around half of them that you shake hands with probably didn't properly wash/clean their hands after going to the toilet, or after blowing their nose or sneezing etc. If I can not have to shake a crowd of peoples hands again at work then I will be happy about that, especially in Winter time.

I also hope that it will and more sensible and mindful behaviours in general with regard to hygiene, such as more frequent hand washing and having more sanitizers around etc. Covering your mouth when you cough of sneeze. Also just being more aware of personal space.

These things aren't just good for COVID, it's an effective way of stopping transmission of all kinds of things in general.
I agree. And I apologize -- before seeing your comment, I had actually just gone in and deleted my comment (the one you had quoted a part of), because I feared that what I wrote about people being conditioned to fear one another would be considered an exaggeration. I just wasn't quite sure how to phrase it otherwise, I guess.

I always disliked the "kiss, kiss, kiss" greeting here, especially, and I wonder if that will end up no longer being practiced, even once the pandemic is over. And yeah, like you said, even the practice of shaking hands might be something that ends up being no longer practiced. I realized the other day that it's now become my instinct to try to socially distance (e.g. when passing someone in the hallway of our building) and to try to give them space. I remember watching a lecture once where a psychiatrist or neuroscientist was talking about how behavioral conditioning is something that is very difficult to reverse / undo, so I guess that's also the underlying reason for my previous (now deleted) comment.
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  #17589  
Old 07.12.2020, 10:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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But doesn't that also depend upon what the "merry way" is? For example, I am working from home so I'm not around anyone for 15 minutes except my spouse. I go grocery shopping once a week. I'd probably count in that 95% effective even though my "merry way" isn't the same as the next person. That's all I'm thinking.
They did a lot of testing in my home town - at the peak of one of the worst hit areas in the United States. The few people I have heard of who received the vaccination, were quite young & most likely willing to expose themselves to the virus. But I understand your concerns... keep in mind that test animals were purposefully exposed to the virus during the making of these vaccines.
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  #17590  
Old 07.12.2020, 10:07
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Re: Coronavirus

The government in Belgium has been forcing unnecessary restrictions on retailers to bring a physiological shock for the general public, their minister says.

Lockdown hysteria is alive and well as it seems

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Shutting shops at the end of October was a “psychological shock” tactic to bring home the need for restrictions to arrest the spread of the virus, the country’s health minister has admitted.

Frank Vandenbroucke told the broadcaster VRT that, with masks and social distancing, “shopping does not really involve any risk”.
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  #17591  
Old 07.12.2020, 10:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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The government in Belgium has been forcing unnecessary restrictions on retailers to bring a physiological shock for the general public, their minister says.

Lockdown hysteria is alive and well as it seems
I've seen people shocked by the death of relatives or friends. But, restrictions on retailers? Does that shocks people? 1st world problems?
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  #17592  
Old 07.12.2020, 10:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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When the pandemic is over I hope it leads to bit more sensible personal contact between strangers, such as not having to shake everyone's hand all the time. Knowing guys, probably around half of them that you shake hands with probably didn't properly wash/clean their hands after going to the toilet, or after blowing their nose or sneezing etc. If I can not have to shake a crowd of peoples hands again at work then I will be happy about that, especially in Winter time.
Agreed - although I know it won't happen, I would be very happy if we all learned to wear masks on crowded trains like in Japan. I was sick so often my first year of long distance commuting and I know that is where I contracted my illnesses...
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  #17593  
Old 07.12.2020, 10:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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I agree. And I apologize -- before seeing your comment, I had actually just gone in and deleted my comment (the one you had quoted a part of), because I feared that what I wrote about people being conditioned to fear one another would be considered an exaggeration. I just wasn't quite sure how to phrase it otherwise, I guess.

I always disliked the "kiss, kiss, kiss" greeting here, especially, and I wonder if that will end up no longer being practiced, even once the pandemic is over. And yeah, like you said, even the practice of shaking hands might be something that ends up being no longer practiced. I realized the other day that it's now become my instinct to try to socially distance (e.g. when passing someone in the hallway of our building) and to try to give them space. I remember watching a lecture once where a psychiatrist or neuroscientist was talking about how behavioral conditioning is something that is very difficult to reverse / undo, so I guess that's also the underlying reason for my previous (now deleted) comment.
Pfft no need to apologise pancakes, we are all in the same boat. You raise a good point, I had forgotten about the "three kisses" as it's been so long since I have done it. That is also something I would be happy to see the back of as it is one of the most overused and least genuine things that strangers do here in Switzerland. Especially in the expat community where people seem to lean in for it before you have even had chance to think.

A smile and a nod between strangers is all I am interested in unless there's a more personal connection (eg: good friend of a friend).
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  #17594  
Old 07.12.2020, 10:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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But doesn't that also depend upon what the "merry way" is? For example, I am working from home so I'm not around anyone for 15 minutes except my spouse. I go grocery shopping once a week. I'd probably count in that 95% effective even though my "merry way" isn't the same as the next person. That's all I'm thinking.
I gathered from watching a few discussion programmes in the UK, that Doctors (general practitioners) were given the opportunity/asked to volunteer. It was considered that this was a good group to use as their exposure to infection was high.

My "merry way" is the same as yours and it's getting less and less merry by the day. I suppose people like you and I would perhaps be less likely to volunteer for a vaccine trial and that those who do are by nature less risk averse.
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  #17595  
Old 07.12.2020, 10:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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I've seen people shocked by the death of relatives or friends. But, restrictions on retailers? Does that shocks people? 1st world problems?
Well as said by the health minister their goal was to make the matter more serious than it really is. Nothing new in the handling of coronavirus
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  #17596  
Old 07.12.2020, 12:26
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Re: Coronavirus

Prediction for the week:

once all the Swiss-German kantons, after being threatened by Berset, declare that they bring in no new controls, Berset will be forced to lockdown in some wishy-washy form from Friday midnight and foot the bill for whatever he locks down.

And the kantons are simply motivated to not foot the bill.....
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  #17597  
Old 07.12.2020, 12:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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Prediction for the week:

once all the Swiss-German kantons, after being threatened by Berset, declare that they bring in no new controls, Berset will be forced to lockdown in some wishy-washy form from Friday midnight and foot the bill for whatever he locks down.

And the kantons are simply motivated to not foot the bill.....

"There are currently many talks being held with other cantons and also with the federal government, says Government Councilor Jean-Pierre Gallati. The canton of Aargau wants to inform about any further measures on Thursday morning.

One wants to wait and see how other cantons react. The head of the health department is asked whether that doesn't seem a bit passive. “I don't really care how that seems,” says Gallati. One is currently not in an "urgent emergency situation" that requires immediate action"

https://www.20min.ch/story/corona-za...e-656099690495
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Old 07.12.2020, 12:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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I lost both my uncle and aunt to COVID this week, they died within two days of each other.
Sorry for your loss!
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Old 07.12.2020, 12:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think saying "we are being conditioned to fear one another" is perhaps a tad dramatic and exaggerated. During a pandemic situation people are the carriers and we are being told to socially distance, so it's understandable that people are cautious.

When the pandemic is over I hope it leads to bit more sensible personal contact between strangers, such as not having to shake everyone's hand all the time. Knowing guys, probably around half of them that you shake hands with probably didn't properly wash/clean their hands after going to the toilet, or after blowing their nose or sneezing etc. If I can not have to shake a crowd of peoples hands again at work then I will be happy about that, especially in Winter time.

I also hope that it will and more sensible and mindful behaviours in general with regard to hygiene, such as more frequent hand washing and having more sanitizers around etc. Covering your mouth when you cough of sneeze. Also just being more aware of personal space.

These things aren't just good for COVID, it's an effective way of stopping transmission of all kinds of things in general.
You can still shake hands in the future, all you need is for both parties to wear gloves that can be kept in
your pocket, like you do your facemask when not in use.
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  #17600  
Old 07.12.2020, 13:06
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Re: Coronavirus

Numbers for fri, sat & sun combined are 9809 out of 60 k tests.

327 hospitalisations
176 death

https://www.covid19.admin.ch/fr/overview
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