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Old 09.12.2020, 15:30
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Re: Coronavirus

Well, I certainly hope the Cantons adopt them.

But I think we consumers need to be pushing back at the retailers to curtail their actions to get more and more shoppers into their shops. We’ve seen

A Grande Reopening of the Coop in Vich (Gland) with games for the kids, promotions and give aways.

Black Friday ‘Weeks’ promotions (Migros) and extra opening hours.

Late night openings and Sunday openings in the run-up to Christmas.

This is insanity and no, giving out free hand sanitiser does make up for stupidity.
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  #17742  
Old 09.12.2020, 15:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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Well, I certainly hope the Cantons adopt them.

But I think we consumers need to be pushing back at the retailers to curtail their actions to get more and more shoppers into their shops. We’ve seen

A Grande Reopening of the Coop in Vich (Gland) with games for the kids, promotions and give aways.

Black Friday ‘Weeks’ promotions (Migros) and extra opening hours.

Late night openings and Sunday openings in the run-up to Christmas.

This is insanity and no, giving out free hand sanitiser does make up for stupidity.
Grande reopening - Stoopid.
Promotions - Meh
Extra hours - I think this is positive as it spreads the number of shoppers out over time. On the other hand it could of course also bring other people who would not have otherwise gone shopping reducing it back to meh status.
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  #17743  
Old 09.12.2020, 15:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think it is fairly obvious that letting people decide for themselves is not working out.
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  #17744  
Old 09.12.2020, 16:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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There was an interesting comment yesterday on the weekly Drosten podcast (the German virologist turned pop star) on how he sees next summer:

He expects that the elderly will be vaccinated, the restrictions will be mostly lifted (maybe masks still) and the virus will essentially transmit freely. This will be mostly unproblematic, but he expects that the typical ICU patient by then will look very different compared to now: Not the 78 year old, but a lot of mid age, otherwise apparently non-risk patients who are unlucky to develop a severe case. This may be a small percentage, but once the virus transmits freely, the absolute numbers could be significant.

I don't want to debate now how big/small the risk is for a 40-something year old, but found this an interesting thought.
meaning vaccination will not work?
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  #17745  
Old 09.12.2020, 16:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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Extra hours - I think this is positive as it spreads the number of shoppers out over time. On the other hand it could of course also bring other people who would not have otherwise gone shopping reducing it back to meh status.
Agreed - I've been doing my groceries at "off hours" for some time now and those off hours no longer exist during the holiday period - the stores are crowded, all the time now. Bern has always had later hour open stores, I am a little bit concerned it will just get more crowded.
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  #17746  
Old 09.12.2020, 16:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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Woah, looking back at this first post, what a ride it has been since then. Apart from the many restrictions, widespread loss of life/long-term health problems and financial consequences, the most difficult thing for me was the stark realisation of how many stupid, selfish and callous people with absolutely zero common sense there are.
It's funny, personally, what this pandemic has made me realize is just how easily people get carried into shaming/insulting/making existential assumptions about strangers based on the sole measure of whether they're wearing a mask, following a certain rule or not, or on whatever they're saying on the internet.


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but also to not being reminded on a daily basis just how many selfish morons there are; the inability/refusal to wear a mask properly where it is mandatory to do so being the marker thereof.
No, it's not. It's a convenient tool for you to exercise your virtue signaling, because it's a visible cloth and it allows you to visually spot and call out the people you oddly consider imbeciles but objectively, you know nothing about their situation and their reason for not wearing one. Claiming someone is a 'selfish moron' or a narcissist because they're not covering their face in the midst of a pandemic while not knowing anything about their situation or how otherwise diligent they are about what is, arguably, the most efficient measure against spread (physical distancing) says more about you than anything else.

I could easily claim that anyone owning and regularly updating their smartphones or any electronic device in 2020 (basically 99% of us) is a 'selfish moron' insensitive to the human suffering/deaths involved in their production. Same goes for clothes. But I don't because it's dumb and I recognize that human nature and the measure of how virtuous and earnest someone ultimately is accounts for many more variables.
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  #17747  
Old 09.12.2020, 16:23
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Re: Coronavirus

In regard to the above comment...

There have been numerous incidents in the news where, for example, a store employee is stabbed or shot after telling someone they need to wear a mask in the store. In France, a bus driver was beaten to death after asking passengers to put a mask on.

France: Bus driver dies after 'attack over face masks' in Bayonne
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53367432

"A bus driver has died in France, five days after he was attacked by passengers who reportedly refused to wear face masks, his family says.

Philippe Monguillot, aged 59, had been left brain dead after the assault in the south-western city of Bayonne."


But right. People who refuse to wear masks couldn't possibly be selfish. And when they're accused of being selfish, the accuser is just "virtue signalling."

Are we living in an age now where people are becoming afraid of expressing a sense of right or wrong because otherwise they will be accused of "virtue signalling"? Is that really the kind of world we want?
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  #17748  
Old 09.12.2020, 16:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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It's funny, personally, what this pandemic has made me realize is just how easily people get carried into shaming/insulting/making existential assumptions about strangers based on the sole measure of whether they're wearing a mask, following a certain rule or not, or on whatever they're saying on the internet.




No, it's not. It's a convenient tool for you to exercise your virtue signaling, because it's a visible cloth and it allows you to visually spot and call out the people you oddly consider imbeciles but objectively, you know nothing about their situation and their reason for not wearing one. Claiming someone is a 'selfish moron' or a narcissist because they're not covering their face in the midst of a pandemic while not knowing anything about their situation or how otherwise diligent they are about what is, arguably, the most efficient measure against spread (physical distancing) says more about you than anything else.

I could easily claim that anyone owning and regularly updating their smartphones or any electronic device in 2020 (basically 99% of us) is a 'selfish moron' insensitive to the human suffering/deaths involved in their production. Same goes for clothes. But I don't because it's dumb and I recognize that human nature and the measure of how virtuous and earnest someone ultimately is accounts for many more variables.
I agree.

But imagine that we ask a group of annonymous kids what they think about homework. What will you get? If you criticise how mature people are when dealing with internet...you have to count in human nature, too. How people really react to adverse opinions, etc. There are ways to improve it.
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  #17749  
Old 09.12.2020, 16:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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No, it's not. It's a convenient tool for you to exercise your virtue signaling, because it's a visible cloth and it allows you to visually spot and call out the people you oddly consider imbeciles but objectively, you know nothing about their situation and their reason for not wearing one. Claiming someone is a 'selfish moron' or a narcissist because they're not covering their face in the midst of a pandemic while not knowing anything about their situation or how otherwise diligent they are about what is, arguably, the most efficient measure against spread (physical distancing) says more about you than anything else.

I could easily claim that anyone owning and regularly updating their smartphones or any electronic device in 2020 (basically 99% of us) is a 'selfish moron' insensitive to the human suffering/deaths involved in their production. Same goes for clothes. But I don't because it's dumb and I recognize that human nature and the measure of how virtuous and earnest someone ultimately is accounts for many more variables.
Business idea: start selling masks that say this mask is as useless as virtue signalers. Make a profit with discontent and enjoy how the rebellious wear the mask This is one of the most profitable music industry business models.

PS. I don't confront people not wearing a mask, just fake a sneeze and see them run in disgust.
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  #17750  
Old 09.12.2020, 16:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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It's funny, personally, what this pandemic has made me realize is just how easily people get carried into shaming/insulting/making existential assumptions about strangers based on the sole measure of whether they're wearing a mask, following a certain rule or not, or on whatever they're saying on the internet.
Other things I observe and deem "sign of brain and/or proper socialisation-deficiency":
  • Using your phone while driving
  • Even worse, using your phone while freehand on a bicycle
  • Walking while looking at your phone
  • Simply wandering out onto a road because the pedestrian crossing gives you right of way
  • Smoking in the car with kids or animals inside
  • Not wearing a seat belt, especially not wearing one when you are in the back with someone sat in front of you
  • People who use plastic bags to discard their kitchen waste in the green recycling bin
  • Those who litter, especially those who throw cigarettes in fresh water bodies or think balloon releases are a great idea
  • Those who intentionally make noise with their vehicles in residential areas at night
  • People who jump queues or lay into service industry staff for minor oversights
  • Parents who insist that it is completely impossible for their special little crotch fruit to have done the things the teacher has phoned them about and get lawyers involved
  • Etc. etc. etc.
All of these things are in some way detrimental to other people/the planet, either potentially so or very much directly. Some of them are about ignorance, others laziness and some are simply down to the misguided idea that one's own comfort comes before everyone else's. And that is where I "sort" the mask dodgers/rebels. The percentage of people with a real, insurmountable medical condition that does not allow them to wear a mask is minuscule. These people are also probably not out and about in places where masks are mandatory because they have been advised by their doctors to isolate as much as possible. The rest is just being a bunch of anti-social toddlers who were too chicken to rebel properly with actual risk to themselves involved as teenagers and are now making up for lost time by putting others at risk.

But this is not the mask dodger thread and you are now joining the select number of people on my ignore list because it is clear that you have nothing better to do than follow me around this forum and try to attack me. This is only slightly less unoriginal than being a "corona rebel" but definitely more boring. Ta-rah, pet.
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  #17751  
Old 09.12.2020, 16:59
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Re: Coronavirus

Alain Berset: "We were overoptimistic in September"
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  #17752  
Old 09.12.2020, 17:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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Making all the shops close early would appear to be a stupid idea. Who thought of that one?

People will still need to buy food and all those that buy it after work have a much smaller window in which to do their shopping so there will be more people in the shops when they are open.

Even when working from home, many people will still need to work core hours.


I don't understand the reasoning behind that one,
Agreed. It would actually make a lot more sense to allow trading 24/7. Even in London, I never encountered more than four or five other shoppers at 3 am in the Sainsbury's at Waterloo.
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Old 09.12.2020, 17:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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Are we living in an age now where people are becoming afraid of expressing a sense of right or wrong because otherwise they will be accused of "virtue signalling"? Is that really the kind of world we want?
Funny YOU say that. Everyone with a dissenting opinion has been baptized as an covid-denier, anti-vaxxer, moron and Trump supporter and asked to be banished from the forum on multiple occasions. This is the world YOU seem to want and push for. You went so far as to put people on your ignore list precisely for expressing a different opinion. Sometimes it makes sense to take a step back and look at oneself. From time to time.
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  #17754  
Old 09.12.2020, 18:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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Funny YOU say that. Everyone with a dissenting opinion has been baptized as an covid-denier, anti-vaxxer, moron and Trump supporter and asked to be banished from the forum on multiple occasions. This is the world YOU seem to want and push for.
You went so far as to put people on your ignore list precisely for expressing a different opinion.
Sometimes it makes sense to take a step back and look at oneself. From time to time.
Well, why would put people on your ignore list when they agree with you?

Funny TC thanked your post when he has written the following;

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Marton has been on my ignore list for months now so I don't see anything that he/she posts.
Ironically for the reason, amongst many others of posting links to Time magzine articles and presenting them as confirmation/fact when no one takes Time magazine seriously anymore.
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  #17755  
Old 09.12.2020, 18:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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All of these things are in some way detrimental to other people/the planet, either potentially so or very much directly. Some of them are about ignorance, others laziness and some are simply down to the misguided idea that one's own comfort comes before everyone else's. And that is where I "sort" the mask dodgers/rebels. The percentage of people with a real, insurmountable medical condition that does not allow them to wear a mask is minuscule. These people are also probably not out and about in places where masks are mandatory because they have been advised by their doctors to isolate as much as possible. The rest is just being a bunch of anti-social toddlers who were too chicken to rebel properly with actual risk to themselves involved as teenagers and are now making up for lost time by putting others at risk.
but if you're not certain whether someone does or does not have a medical reason for not wearing a mask and you call them a selfish moron then it's just prejudice on your part.
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  #17756  
Old 09.12.2020, 18:48
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Re: Coronavirus

Weekly assessment by Task Force (available in German or French only). Not much new, but they state that with higher mobility and contacts over Christmas holidays they expect infections to rise.

https://sciencetaskforce.ch/epidemio...dezember-2020/

My gut feel from a few hours outside today: Early pre-Xmas beehive, and warming up.
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Old 09.12.2020, 18:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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but if you're not certain whether someone does or does not have a medical reason for not wearing a mask and you call them a selfish moron then it's just prejudice on your part.
The odds are firmly in my favour. Plus, it doesn't have any real impact on them, they either know they are in the right for medical reasons or don't give a sh*t about me or anyone else apart from themselves anyway. It's not like I get out a judgment stick and start beating them up.
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Old 09.12.2020, 18:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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The odds are firmly in my favour. Plus, it doesn't have any real impact on them, they either know they are in the right for medical reasons or don't give a sh*t about me or anyone else apart from themselves anyway. It's not like I get out a judgment stick and start beating them up.
well i have a family member that has actually had some problems due to their inability to wear a mask. so to suggest such prejudice doesn't have any impact on such people is not only selfish, it's simply wrong.
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Old 09.12.2020, 19:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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Agreed. It would actually make a lot more sense to allow trading 24/7. Even in London, I never encountered more than four or five other shoppers at 3 am in the Sainsbury's at Waterloo.
I would vehemently oppose any such measures. It's one of my favourite features of switzerland. Giving workers time off on Sunday, reasonable hours during week.

Why would we want to participate in a race to the bottom?
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Old 09.12.2020, 20:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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Agreed - I've been doing my groceries at "off hours" for some time now and those off hours no longer exist during the holiday period - the stores are crowded, all the time now. Bern has always had later hour open stores, I am a little bit concerned it will just get more crowded.
Why not get stuff delivered, COOP is very reliable, then you can self isolate indefinitely to be safe.
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