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  #17941  
Old 14.12.2020, 13:09
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Re: Coronavirus

Yep - almost 1,000 more cases
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  #17942  
Old 14.12.2020, 13:09
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Re: Coronavirus

Numbers for fri, sat & sun combined are 10 726 out of 75 k tests

445 hospitalisations
193 death

https://www.covid19.admin.ch/fr/overview
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  #17943  
Old 14.12.2020, 13:19
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Re: Coronavirus

Who on earth is catching it?
Are they victims? Or reeping what they sow?
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  #17944  
Old 14.12.2020, 13:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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Who on earth is catching it?
Are they victims? Or reeping what they sow?
You looking to blame someone?
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  #17945  
Old 14.12.2020, 13:52
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Re: Coronavirus

Points from todays extra press conference

"Measures are not enough"
Other countries have taken much stricter measures, admits Berset. “We're sticking to the Swiss Way with its basic measures. However, we will tighten this if necessary. " That happened on Friday. But: “The basic measures are not enough. It is up to the cantons to tighten the measures if necessary. "

"Very worried"
“The situation worries us very much,” says Berset. The numbers are falling in western Switzerland, while in Zurich plus 15 and eastern Switzerland plus 13 percent of the number of cases are reported.

Rapid tests
Berset would like the rapid tests to be used more widely - even in people who do not show any symptoms.

"Standing in the starting blocks for vaccination"
It is up to the cantons to distribute the vaccination to those who then supply it to the population. The federal government takes over the logistics until delivery to the cantons. "The cantons should be ready by the beginning of the year to be able to vaccinate." He also doesn't know when Swissmedic will grant approval, says Berset.


"Otherwise there will be a collapse"
Engelberger thanks the nurses who at the forefront: "We must not strain our health system, otherwise it will collapse in January," says Engelberger.


Energetic procurement
The distribution of the vaccine doses is an organizational, administrative, logistical Herculean task, says Engelberger. However, he is confident and thanks the Federal Council for the “energetic procurement of the vaccine”. Engelberger has closed with this.

https://www.20min.ch/story/bundesrat...r-727534359521
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  #17946  
Old 14.12.2020, 13:53
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Re: Coronavirus

Alain Berset press conference after a conference with cantonal health chiefs.

https://www.20min.ch/story/bundesrat...r-727534359521

New steps to be announced Friday.

A tiered response is envisaged (like that used by France, UK, Spain, etc. for months now )
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  #17947  
Old 14.12.2020, 13:56
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Re: Coronavirus

I am so sick of Berset stating the situation is “worrying”, but then doing nothing about it. Why wait till Friday??!!
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  #17948  
Old 14.12.2020, 13:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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You looking to blame someone?
To understand who is catching it.
If it's wilful negligence (non-essential gathering s, as mentioned about the Crimbo market stalls) or unavoidable contact, like care homes, essential workers etc.
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  #17949  
Old 14.12.2020, 14:17
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Re: Coronavirus

Another important thing L. Engelberger said was "there is still capacity in hospitals because surgeries have been delayed into the future". So, the current situation is not catastrophic (yet) because all people that need intensive care can get it, but it's far from a desirable equilibrium. There are a lot of needed surgeries not being done now :/
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Old 14.12.2020, 14:17
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Re: Coronavirus

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To understand who is catching it.
If it's wilful negligence (non-essential gathering s, as mentioned about the Crimbo market stalls) or unavoidable contact, like care homes, essential workers etc.

It's also important to know how many of these cases are infectious and how many are the same person tested several times.

There is normally a spike after the weekend anyway, as I don't think they report the cases over the weekend.
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  #17951  
Old 14.12.2020, 14:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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To understand who is catching it.
If it's wilful negligence (non-essential gathering s, as mentioned about the Crimbo market stalls) or unavoidable contact, like care homes, essential workers etc.
How do you define negligence in first place?

If it's only about laws and rules, it's easy. Don't follow the spirit of the law and you're negligent, for example not wearing a mask in a bus.

If it's about reducing contagion. It's a lot more complicate. Some weeks ago that a new rule for mask wearing above 12 YO was put in place my wife found she had a student 3 weeks from her 12th birthday. So, in the whole group one was not required to wear a mask. Everything done according to the rules but what about the spirit of the law (minimizing contagion)? By magic children with 11 years 49 weeks old don't have the virus?

The limit to people gatherings. If I pass the virus to others in a 4 people dinner, is it less negligent that passing the virus to others in a crowded bar? I guess morally there's not difference, people can get really sick or die in both situations. The only difference is observed in ICU beds available or not.
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  #17952  
Old 14.12.2020, 15:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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Who on earth is catching it?
Are they victims? Or reeping what they sow?
Some are victims, some are reaping what they sow.
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  #17953  
Old 14.12.2020, 15:04
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Re: Coronavirus

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I am so sick of Berset stating the situation is “worrying”, but then doing nothing about it. Why wait till Friday??!!
Just a guess - maybe he is worried that federal action would not be legal? Or at least challenged.

TBH its now too late before Christmas to do anything useful. Friday is 18 December - only a couple of days before increased contact at Christmas happens (whether its formally allowed or not). Although it would have been good to take action in mid-late November, we are now just going to have to take the early January hit...

I think with vaccinations on the horizon by then (better late than never) - there may be a bit more willingness to shut things for the final push in January and February. Hopefully by March the old folk are vaccinated and we can then reopen for good (allowing people to make their own choices on risk).
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Old 14.12.2020, 15:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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Just a guess - maybe he is worried that federal action would not be legal? Or at least challenged.

TBH its now too late before Christmas to do anything useful. Friday is 18 December - only a couple of days before increased contact at Christmas happens (whether its formally allowed or not). Although it would have been good to take action in mid-late November, we are now just going to have to take the early January hit...

I think with vaccinations on the horizon by then (better late than never) - there may be a bit more willingness to shut things for the final push in January and February. Hopefully by March the old folk are vaccinated and we can then reopen for good (allowing people to make their own choices on risk).
He is not alone in the Federal Council and now that only last Friday they said they would decide next steps on 18th, I guess there was little chance for federal action today. Why ZH does nothing is a different story, but I guess not surprising anymore.
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Old 14.12.2020, 15:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think with vaccinations on the horizon by then (better late than never) - there may be a bit more willingness to shut things for the final push in January and February. Hopefully by March the old folk are vaccinated and we can then reopen for good (allowing people to make their own choices on risk).
Whatever people might say about the vaccine, I think it is far from late. The development time has been cracking.

On the other side of the vaccinations proximity is the feeling that this whole mess is coming to a close and so people are caring less about the potential negatives as they happen to others and never to themselves. Like a person not caring about their companies performance because they're leaving in 3 months anyway.
I hope Christmas doesn't spike the whole mess like crazy and I can get home sometime in March without quarantining myself everywhere.
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  #17956  
Old 14.12.2020, 15:40
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Re: Coronavirus

More like 4 to 6 months according to Bill Gates:

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/busin...orth-watching/
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Old 14.12.2020, 15:53
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Re: Coronavirus

I think it's quite clear that neither the cantons nor the Bund are willing to take the hot potato in their hands (i.e. ordering a full shutdown) to avoid facing the economical and political fallout that would come off it. They are both playing the game of "You have the liberty to call your own shots" - "Oh, but this is critical to all cantons, you should call it", "No, you should".
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Old 14.12.2020, 16:00
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think it's quite clear that neither the cantons nor the Bund are willing to take the hot potato in their hands (i.e. ordering a full shutdown) to avoid facing the economical and political fallout that would come off it. They are both playing the game of "You have the liberty to call your own shots" - "Oh, but this is critical to all cantons, you should call it", "No, you should".

Indeed, ordering to close shops doesn't win you supporters. Telling the situation is critical today is to minimize the criticism when the ugly measures are announced.
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  #17959  
Old 14.12.2020, 16:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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Is it you who drives that black Mercedes SLR?

It's a bit old and underpowered, don't you think? And only eight cylinders!

Nope, not me.
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  #17960  
Old 14.12.2020, 16:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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I am so sick of Berset stating the situation is “worrying”, but then doing nothing about it. Why wait till Friday??!!
Because school term ends on Friday and it would make no sense to take some measures but in the same time let the schools open, I guess. I don't know.

The Swiss hurry slowly....
(Festina lente.)
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