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  #17961  
Old 14.12.2020, 16:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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Whatever people might say about the vaccine, I think it is far from late. The development time has been cracking.

On the other side of the vaccinations proximity is the feeling that this whole mess is coming to a close and so people are caring less about the potential negatives as they happen to others and never to themselves. Like a person not caring about their companies performance because they're leaving in 3 months anyway.
I hope Christmas doesn't spike the whole mess like crazy and I can get home sometime in March without quarantining myself everywhere.
I was referring to Switzerland's rollout - the vaccine work itself is incredible.
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  #17962  
Old 14.12.2020, 16:56
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Re: Coronavirus

Risk of severe Covid 7 times higher for healthcare workers compared to non-essential workers.

https://oem.bmj.com/content/early/20...ed-2020-106731

Not really surprising given the heavy exposure. Interesting context to the discussion we had some time ago whether mild but constant exposure in groups like this could lead to higher immunity.
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  #17963  
Old 14.12.2020, 16:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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More like 4 to 6 months according to Bill Gates:

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/busin...orth-watching/
Maybe worldwide - but I imagine by March the worst will be over in Europe and the US.

Certainly the UK plans to vaccinate almost everyone at high risk by then.
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  #17964  
Old 14.12.2020, 17:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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Some weeks ago that a new rule for mask wearing above 12 YO was put in place my wife found she had a student 3 weeks from her 12th birthday. So, in the whole group one was not required to wear a mask. Everything done according to the rules but what about the spirit of the law (minimizing contagion)? By magic children with 11 years 49 weeks old don't have the virus?^

Anyone who can transmit the virus should be masked up, at least in closed public areas! Exception would be babies! I would mask them up too if they cry too much

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Risk of severe Covid 7 ....
Covid 7? We are only on Covid version 2
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  #17965  
Old 14.12.2020, 17:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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Because school term ends on Friday and it would make no sense to take some measures but in the same time let the schools open, I guess. I don't know.

The Swiss hurry slowly....
(Festina lente.)
Term doesn’t end until the 23rd here and in several other cantons.
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  #17966  
Old 14.12.2020, 17:55
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Re: Coronavirus

GE is the 23rd (until 11 Jan); Vaud the 18th (until 4 Jan)
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  #17967  
Old 14.12.2020, 18:38
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Re: Coronavirus

Sorry, if it was discussed here already. Isn't is suspicious, that the massive quick tests in Graubünden revealed the same 1% or infected, as in Slovakia? Is it some magic number for these kinds of tests? Did anyone read how many cases among this 1% in Slovakia were confirmed by normal PCR test? I've never seen this information on the news websites. And it seems that massive testing didn't help Slovakia a bit. So are these tests for screening purpose just a waste of time and money?
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  #17968  
Old 14.12.2020, 18:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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Sorry, if it was discussed here already. Isn't is suspicious, that the massive quick tests in Graubünden revealed the same 1% or infected, as in Slovakia? Is it some magic number for these kinds of tests? Did anyone read how many cases among this 1% in Slovakia were confirmed by normal PCR test? I've never seen this information on the news websites. And it seems that massive testing didn't help Slovakia a bit. So are these tests for screening purpose just a waste of time and money?
Why would this be suspicious?

Read an interesting back-of-the-envelope calculation for GR: 1% positive out of the 15000 who volunteered. GR has population of 200.000, so 1% would be 2000 cases. Assuming people test positive for 10 days before viral load gets small, you could say that is 200 per day. GR reports ca. 100 per day currently, so one could guesstimate that every second case goes undetected.

What these tests bring is another matter. You can certainly isolate the positive and ask their contacts to quarantine. Of the 15000, there will have been presumably 100-200 who just get infected a day or two before and who did not test positive yet. These people will be at the highest level of infectiousness right now just before developing symptoms.
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  #17969  
Old 14.12.2020, 19:57
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Re: Coronavirus

'New variant' of coronavirus identified - Hancock

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55308211
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  #17970  
Old 14.12.2020, 20:19
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Re: Coronavirus

https://www.20min.ch/story/bundesrat...r-960822852092

The following is a translation of the article in 20 Minutes with the proposed tier system of restrictions.

"The Federal Council proposes three packages of measures to the cantons that would be taken if the Corona situation worsens. Unless the situation deteriorates drastically in the next four days, a complete lockdown is not an option in the short term.
According to the consultation documents, which the Tamedia portals made public on Monday evening, the Federal Department of Home Affairs (FDHA) proposes that a tightening of the measures should not be discussed until 28 December, i.e. after Christmas. The documents are also available to the Keystone-SDA news agency.
According to the documents, stricter measures would only be discussed on Friday if the reproduction rate "should increase rapidly and strongly". Specifically, doubling times of two weeks or less would "trigger a need for in-depth discussion". For example, the reproduction rate (R-value) would have to rise from the current 1.13 (estimate of 4 December) to 1.2.

Restaurant closures" scenario
If this does not happen, the Federal Council will not reassess the situation until 28 December. By then, the R-value should be below 1 and the number of cases should fall again. "If this is not the case and the numbers continue to rise at the end of December, further measures are indicated," the documents state. The aim is to achieve an R-value of 0.8 - i.e. to halve the number of cases every fortnight.
Specifically, there are three escalation levels. If the R-value has been above 1 for three days on 28 December or if the intensive care beds are over 80 per cent occupied, then, according to the FDHA proposal, catering establishments would be closed. Exceptions would still be made, for example, for take-away and delivery businesses as well as hotel guests.
Leisure and sports centres would have to close completely. Only activities such as jogging and cycling as well as outdoor group training for up to five people would be permitted. Cultural, leisure and entertainment facilities would also be closed.

Stay at home" scenario
The second set of measures - where the R-value is above 1.1 or 85 per cent intensive care bed occupancy - imposes additional restrictions. Shops and markets would be closed at weekends, for example, and there would be severe capacity restrictions during the week.
At-risk groups would be specifically protected in this scenario as in spring 2020 - "without discriminating against them". The population would be explicitly called upon to stay at home.

Lockdown" scenario
If the R-value on 28 December is above 1.2 or the intensive care beds are over 90 per cent full, the third package of measures would come into play - the (partial) lockdown. Shops would have to close. The cantons can take a position on two variants as far as exceptions are concerned.
Variant one provides for exceptions for shops whose turnover results to at least two thirds from food and other goods of daily use. The Sunday sales ban would be lifted for these shops.
Variant two provides for exceptions only for the sale of daily consumer goods. Shops that also offer other products would have to cover the corresponding shelves. The Sunday sales ban would also be lifted for these shops.
Private events would be allowed to take place with a maximum of ten people from two households in this epidemiological situation. In public spaces, only a maximum of ten people would be allowed to meet.

Ski resorts not directly affected
According to the FDHA plans, personal services such as hairdressers, tattoo studios, erotic businesses and physiotherapy would not be affected by the respective restrictions. They would continue to be permitted with corresponding protection concepts.
The closure of ski resorts is also not part of the package of measures. It is the task of the cantons to only approve protection concepts if the detailed specifications in the ordinance are ensured, it says in the consultation documents.
"Nevertheless, it should be noted that if further federal measures are taken, the closure of ski areas must also be examined by the Federal Council." For example, according to the Confederation, it would be difficult to explain why ski areas should remain open despite shop closures.

Ongoing assessment
The cantons have until Tuesday evening to comment on the Confederation's proposals. The Federal Council will discuss them on Friday.
According to the currently proposed timetable, the Federal Council will reassess the epidemiological situation shortly after the turn of the year, on 5 January - and take measures if necessary, specifically if a halving period of more than one month continues to be a reality. One of the three packages of measures would also be applied, with slightly adjusted threshold values.
In the first half of January, the Federal Council also wants to "present a plan for the further procedure until spring 2021 in a winter package of measures".
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  #17971  
Old 14.12.2020, 20:24
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Re: Coronavirus

So....

Ballpark figures:

Vaccination of most vulnerable 10% will save c. 70% of lives
Most vulnerable 40% c. 99%.

In reality it'd be a bit better than that because R is also decreased as a result of vaccination so fewer cases to begin with.
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  #17972  
Old 14.12.2020, 20:41
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Re: Coronavirus

Today's award for amazing Covid-related stupidity and ignorance goes to:


.....



.....

Kanton Basel-Stadt

For shutting supermarkets from 7pm. (I'm presuming this is the case as a result of seeing multiple shuttered supermarkets).

Seriously wtf. 7-8 is the quietest and safest hour to shop. Also, some people have busy jobs. I'm almost never out before 7 and almost never home to Frick before 8. I wanted to shop but can delay, however a colleague is getting the tram to Basel-land to do her late shopping.
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  #17973  
Old 14.12.2020, 20:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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https://www.20min.ch/story/bundesrat...r-960822852092

The following is a translation of the article in 20 Minutes with the proposed tier system of restrictions.

"The Federal Council proposes three packages of measures to the cantons that would be taken if the Corona situation worsens. Unless the situation deteriorates drastically in the next four days, a complete lockdown is not an option in the short term.
According to the consultation documents, which the Tamedia portals made public on Monday evening, the Federal Department of Home Affairs (FDHA) proposes that a tightening of the measures should not be discussed until 28 December, i.e. after Christmas. The documents are also available to the Keystone-SDA news agency.
According to the documents, stricter measures would only be discussed on Friday if the reproduction rate "should increase rapidly and strongly". Specifically, doubling times of two weeks or less would "trigger a need for in-depth discussion". For example, the reproduction rate (R-value) would have to rise from the current 1.13 (estimate of 4 December) to 1.2.

Restaurant closures" scenario
If this does not happen, the Federal Council will not reassess the situation until 28 December. By then, the R-value should be below 1 and the number of cases should fall again. "If this is not the case and the numbers continue to rise at the end of December, further measures are indicated," the documents state. The aim is to achieve an R-value of 0.8 - i.e. to halve the number of cases every fortnight.
Specifically, there are three escalation levels. If the R-value has been above 1 for three days on 28 December or if the intensive care beds are over 80 per cent occupied, then, according to the FDHA proposal, catering establishments would be closed. Exceptions would still be made, for example, for take-away and delivery businesses as well as hotel guests.
Leisure and sports centres would have to close completely. Only activities such as jogging and cycling as well as outdoor group training for up to five people would be permitted. Cultural, leisure and entertainment facilities would also be closed.

Stay at home" scenario
The second set of measures - where the R-value is above 1.1 or 85 per cent intensive care bed occupancy - imposes additional restrictions. Shops and markets would be closed at weekends, for example, and there would be severe capacity restrictions during the week.
At-risk groups would be specifically protected in this scenario as in spring 2020 - "without discriminating against them". The population would be explicitly called upon to stay at home.

Lockdown" scenario
If the R-value on 28 December is above 1.2 or the intensive care beds are over 90 per cent full, the third package of measures would come into play - the (partial) lockdown. Shops would have to close. The cantons can take a position on two variants as far as exceptions are concerned.
Variant one provides for exceptions for shops whose turnover results to at least two thirds from food and other goods of daily use. The Sunday sales ban would be lifted for these shops.
Variant two provides for exceptions only for the sale of daily consumer goods. Shops that also offer other products would have to cover the corresponding shelves. The Sunday sales ban would also be lifted for these shops.
Private events would be allowed to take place with a maximum of ten people from two households in this epidemiological situation. In public spaces, only a maximum of ten people would be allowed to meet.

Ski resorts not directly affected
According to the FDHA plans, personal services such as hairdressers, tattoo studios, erotic businesses and physiotherapy would not be affected by the respective restrictions. They would continue to be permitted with corresponding protection concepts.
The closure of ski resorts is also not part of the package of measures. It is the task of the cantons to only approve protection concepts if the detailed specifications in the ordinance are ensured, it says in the consultation documents.
"Nevertheless, it should be noted that if further federal measures are taken, the closure of ski areas must also be examined by the Federal Council." For example, according to the Confederation, it would be difficult to explain why ski areas should remain open despite shop closures.

Ongoing assessment
The cantons have until Tuesday evening to comment on the Confederation's proposals. The Federal Council will discuss them on Friday.
According to the currently proposed timetable, the Federal Council will reassess the epidemiological situation shortly after the turn of the year, on 5 January - and take measures if necessary, specifically if a halving period of more than one month continues to be a reality. One of the three packages of measures would also be applied, with slightly adjusted threshold values.
In the first half of January, the Federal Council also wants to "present a plan for the further procedure until spring 2021 in a winter package of measures".
I mean I get the political angle and that nobody wants to ruin Christmas more than it already is. But to declare at a current R of 1.13 (are we that high already?) that the target is 0.8, but nothing would be done until end of the month or we hit 1.2 is just bizarre. The message seems to be "let's enjoy Christmas and worry about this later". Just what people want to hear.
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  #17974  
Old 14.12.2020, 20:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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Today's award for amazing Covid-related stupidity and ignorance goes to:


.....



.....

Kanton Basel-Stadt

For shutting supermarkets from 7pm. (I'm presuming this is the case as a result of seeing multiple shuttered supermarkets).

Seriously wtf. 7-8 is the quietest and safest hour to shop. Also, some people have busy jobs. I'm almost never out before 7 and almost never home to Frick before 8. I wanted to shop but can delay, however a colleague is getting the tram to Basel-land to do her late shopping.
Federal rules as declared last Friday.
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  #17975  
Old 14.12.2020, 21:05
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Re: Coronavirus

Meanwhile in ZH hospitals:

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  #17976  
Old 14.12.2020, 21:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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I mean I get the political angle and that nobody wants to ruin Christmas more than it already is. But to declare at a current R of 1.13 (are we that high already?) that the target is 0.8, but nothing would be done until end of the month or we hit 1.2 is just bizarre. The message seems to be "let's enjoy Christmas and worry about this later". Just what people want to hear.
i read it more as "let's keep the important christmas time open for business ($$$) and we can worry about lockdown after"
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  #17977  
Old 14.12.2020, 21:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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Today's award for amazing Covid-related stupidity and ignorance goes to:


.....



.....

Kanton Basel-Stadt

For shutting supermarkets from 7pm. (I'm presuming this is the case as a result of seeing multiple shuttered supermarkets).

Seriously wtf. 7-8 is the quietest and safest hour to shop. Also, some people have busy jobs. I'm almost never out before 7 and almost never home to Frick before 8. I wanted to shop but can delay, however a colleague is getting the tram to Basel-land to do her late shopping.
I don’t think going to Basel-land will do her much good.
It’s the new federal rules which came into force on Saturday and shops have to close at 7pm unless they are in one of the exempt cantons. I’m pretty sure Basel-land isn’t one of them.
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  #17978  
Old 14.12.2020, 21:23
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Re: Coronavirus

Just when you were thinking that the vaccine would be turning up, just in the nick of time like the 7th cavalry.
A new varient of the Coronavirus has been identified in England.

BBC News - A new varient of the Coronavirus has been identified in England
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  #17979  
Old 14.12.2020, 21:26
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Re: Coronavirus

What country do you all live in where you can go shopping after 19:00?? (Apart from shops in the train station)

Every Coop I have ever lived by closes at 19:00, every Migros 19:00, every department store 19:00, every small store between 18:30 and 19:00 ... you're left with gas stations and 1 in every 1000 kiosks that are open past 19:00.

If you're lucky, you get extra hours on Thursdays in Bern, but only if you're lucky.
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  #17980  
Old 14.12.2020, 21:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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Just when you were thinking that the vaccine would be turning up, just in the nick of time like the 7th cavalry.
A new varient of the Coronavirus has been identified in England.

BBC News - A new varient of the Coronavirus has been identified in England
The 7th Cavalry? Wasn't that Custer at the Little Bighorn?
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