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Old 23.12.2020, 18:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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And I'm one of those 5033, notified this morning. Thanks 2020, great job. Now eff off.
Just keep yourself well clear of those 292 and especially the 98, Grumpy!

Hope you're feeling OK. Rest up, catch up on Netflix and let's all make a concerted effort to make 2021 a really great year.

Hell of a way to divert a thread from anti-mask trolls, btw.
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Old 23.12.2020, 18:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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I understand and thank you for linking the article. I think we're all suffering from Covid weariness and I wish all these safety measures would help but I suspect there are many out there who are disregarding the rules and still going on holiday, still meeting up in groups and still dismissing regulations as something for others to follow.

I've become quite pessimistic on seeing numbers actually go down until widespread vaccination has reached 60%+. We need to get the elderly and those at risk vaccinated ASAP.
Actually, a British study on how viruses spread (which was done years ago, using an app on the phones of a heap of people in the same town) showed that you need to identify "key spreaders", such as the woman who owns the corner shop and sees hundreds of people a day, and get them vaccinated first to have the greatest effect on reducing the spread. After the actual trial (where if you were within a certain distance of an "infected" person's phone for a set time you would then be "infected") they ran computer models based on "vaccinating" certain people and tracking the changes in the speed of the spread.
Fascinating stuff, saw it on the BBC a bit over a year ago iirc.
Sorry, I don't recall the name of the show or the study - but they also did a similar country-wide version which was shown on the same show, and it proved that it only took a couple of months for a virus to spread from one person to the whole country if people did nothing. A few months after broadcast, and it looks like BJ thought it was a guide on what to do if there was an infection - just let it go so it's from one end of the country to the other in three months!

As for masks, as others have said, the whole point is to confine most of the aerosol particles within the mask - but it can't keep them all in unless there's a perfect seal, which cannot be done with masks like this. Still, as studies have shown, they reduce the amount of spray when you breathe, cough, or sneeze - just not to zero.
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Old 23.12.2020, 18:51
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Re: Coronavirus

Ah, Grumpy, sorry to hear that. Two of my adult kids and 3 of my grandkids have all had it, (they live in the US). The adults were tired, ran fevers and had a dry cough for about 7 days. They said the worst was the loss of smell and taste. They were tested every other day while they had it and it took 11 days total to go from a positive test to negative. My son, age 39, is still easily fatigued and this is now 3 weeks later. Neither of the adults ever had trouble breathing and none of them ever went to the hospital. The grandkids, ages 19, 15 and 8 never had one symptom. Didn't even know they were sick.
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  #18524  
Old 23.12.2020, 19:05
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Re: Coronavirus

I'm so sorry to hear that you've also had to cancel your travel plans, Grumpy. Do you have friends nearby that can bring things to you while you're in quarantine? Meds, food, etc.?
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  #18525  
Old 23.12.2020, 19:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'm so sorry to hear that you've also had to cancel your travel plans, Grumpy. Do you have friends nearby that can bring things to you while you're in quarantine? Meds, food, etc.?
I have a massive group of friends here, I already a big delivery of groceries this afternoon, and more are planning to arrange more tomorrow. I've even had customers and suppliers from way out of ZH offering to bring food for me. But thanks anyway, it's heart warming how people come together in situations like this.
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Old 23.12.2020, 19:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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Ah, Grumpy, sorry to hear that. Two of my adult kids and 3 of my grandkids have all had it, (they live in the US). The adults were tired, ran fevers and had a dry cough for about 7 days. They said the worst was the loss of smell and taste. They were tested every other day while they had it and it took 11 days total to go from a positive test to negative. My son, age 39, is still easily fatigued and this is now 3 weeks later. Neither of the adults ever had trouble breathing and none of them ever went to the hospital. The grandkids, ages 19, 15 and 8 never had one symptom. Didn't even know they were sick.
It’s been three months for me, and I still don’t have my full sense of smell back (I’d say about 50%) and I’m still totally knackered most days. But I never coughed and didn’t even get a fever
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Old 23.12.2020, 19:18
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Re: Coronavirus

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It’s been three months for me, and I still don’t have my full sense of smell back (I’d say about 50%) and I’m still totally knackered most days. But I never coughed and didn’t even get a fever
I was wondering how you were doing... I'm sorry to hear that you're still feeling "knackered" and still don't have your full sense of smell or taste back. How are the headaches now? (Jeez, I'm almost hesitant to even write this, as I don't want to scare Grumpy or anything ).
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  #18528  
Old 23.12.2020, 19:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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That is exactly the opposite of the Danish study conclusion

There was nothing in the study about "if your mask protects anyone its others from the wearer", the study did not look at transmission, or not, to others.

It was designed "to assess whether recommending surgical mask use outside the home reduces wearers' risk for SARS-CoV-2 infection in a setting where masks were uncommon," according to the study’s abstract.
I think you misread my post - we are in agreement!

The study is solely directed to whether the wearer's risk is altered by wearing a mask and they found no significant difference. Hence my comment that if there is protection it is through protecting others from the wearer (which I agree the study did not investigate).
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Old 23.12.2020, 19:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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I was wondering how you were doing... I'm sorry to hear that you're still feeling "knackered" and still don't have your full sense of smell or taste back. How are the headaches now? (Jeez, I'm almost hesitant to even write this, as I don't want to scare Grumpy or anything ).
The headaches are gone, at least!

I consider myself lucky compared to all the people who ended up in hospital or worse. But such a long recovery time after symptoms that were all in all pretty mild, this is really a weird disease!
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Old 23.12.2020, 19:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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I feel under the weather, like a bad cold is coming (sore throat, aching etc). Yesterday I felt v tired but I've been working 12 hour days the last 2 weeks. I had to take a travel test (they put your passport number in the document) as I was due to fly to NL to spend 4 weeks with my GF. Pretty shocked this morning when I got the positive result. But my Xmas trip is off obviously and I need to spend the next 14 days alone at home, instead of with my GF. And that hurts.
So you didn't take a test because of symptoms? Purely because you were due to travel?
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Old 23.12.2020, 19:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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So you didn't take a test because of symptoms? Purely because you were due to travel?
NL would not allow me to enter without a test and a declaration that me and my GF were in a long term relationship . It makes me wonder how many people have the virus but don't know it.
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  #18532  
Old 23.12.2020, 20:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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Todays published numbers are 5033 out of 45 k tests

292 hospitalisations
98 death

https://www.covid19.admin.ch/en/overview

Compared to last wednesday
So, what are we doing with this? Flat as a pancake. If we get to 10 Jan without big increases, I would call this good by these standards. During the holidays I expect low test activity and comparably also cases, so numbers will be difficult to read.
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Old 23.12.2020, 22:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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So, what are we doing with this? Flat as a pancake. If we get to 10 Jan without big increases, I would call this good by these standards. During the holidays I expect low test activity and comparably also cases, so numbers will be difficult to read.

I wanted to take a test after meeting up with a friend who was still suffering lingering effects from what he thought was the flu. I called the test center to make an appointment but was told I needed to wait 7 days after initial contact since I wasn't displaying any symptoms and my friend's case was unverified. I was further informed that I will be required to go into quarantine even if my test was negative. Both the consultant and I agreed that it was pointless to go ahead with any testing.
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Old 23.12.2020, 23:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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I wanted to take a test after meeting up with a friend who was still suffering lingering effects from what he thought was the flu. I called the test center to make an appointment but was told I needed to wait 7 days after initial contact since I wasn't displaying any symptoms and my friend's case was unverified. I was further informed that I will be required to go into quarantine even if my test was negative. Both the consultant and I agreed that it was pointless to go ahead with any testing.
If you can only be tested in 7 days from now and will go to quarantine afterwards (for additional 3 days I assume?) regardless of the result, why to be tested at all then?
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Old 23.12.2020, 23:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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If you can only be tested in 7 days from now and will go to quarantine afterwards (for additional 3 days I assume?) regardless of the result, why to be tested at all then?

Unless you are showing symptoms, have been in contact with a certified case, or need testing for reasons such as travel, testing is unnecessary.
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  #18536  
Old 24.12.2020, 00:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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NL would not allow me to enter without a test and a declaration that me and my GF were in a long term relationship . It makes me wonder how many people have the virus but don't know it.
General estimates are around a third of the people with Covid don't show any symptoms
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Old 24.12.2020, 03:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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So, what are we doing with this? Flat as a pancake. If we get to 10 Jan without big increases, I would call this good by these standards. During the holidays I expect low test activity and comparably also cases, so numbers will be difficult to read.
Shocking debacle and smokescreen regarding numbers.

Fatalities for under 50s approx 20 and of those you cannot find data for pre-existing conditions.

The lockdown approach was and is a complete clusterf*k

Billions spent, business / jobs ruined when a targeted care and isolation program for vunerable and elderly is plainly obvious.

More and more disgusted at the b*llst served up every day.

Wise up people...
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Old 24.12.2020, 08:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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Wise up people...
I just have, goodby.
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Old 24.12.2020, 10:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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Shocking debacle and smokescreen regarding numbers.

Fatalities for under 50s approx 20 and of those you cannot find data for pre-existing conditions.

The lockdown approach was and is a complete clusterf*k

Billions spent, business / jobs ruined when a targeted care and isolation program for vunerable and elderly is plainly obvious.

More and more disgusted at the b*llst served up every day.

Wise up people...
UK deaths was something like 42 deaths of people under the age of 40.
Too late to change tack for this pandemic, but you'd hope they gave a better plan for next time.
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Old 24.12.2020, 11:38
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Re: Coronavirus

Good NZZ piece on the tremendous work of medical staff in the Covid stations. To me it is crystal clear that currently available medical care is by suboptimal for anybody that needs to go to a hospital. And not getting better anytime soon.

https://www.nzz.ch/zuerich/coronavir...mpf-ld.1592655

"The fear that the patient will suddenly stop breathing accompanies me" - three female nurses report on the grueling battle against the corona virus.

Never before have there been so many corona patients in the wards of Zurich hospitals as there are these days. And now, of all times, important helpers are missing.
Doctors and nursing staff in Swiss hospitals are at their limits. Last week, the directors of the three largest Zurich hospitals warned of a collapse of the healthcare system. André Zemp, director of the Zurich City Hospitals, put it this way: "The staff is not equipped for a continuous marathon; a significant reduction in the number of infections is needed."

One of the crucial questions of this second Corona wave is therefore: how long can the staff endure this marathon against the virus?


Three female nurses from Zurich hospitals describe how they deal with the exceptional situation and experience these difficult weeks. For their own protection and that of the patients, their names and places of work have been made anonymous.

One of them is the nursing specialist Fiona Lüthi. She works on a Covid 19 ward, where patients suffering from the virus who do not require intensive care are treated.

***
Fiona Lüthi: In this second wave, a lot of patients come to the hospital already very sick. They are then often already dependent on supplemental oxygen. So it can sometimes go rapidly downhill within a few hours. I monitor them three or four times a day, because they themselves often don't notice when their condition deteriorates. With confused patients, we have a sitting vigil - if it comes good. If we don't find one, there is a risk that patients will pull out their IVs or that they will fall without us noticing.

The virus masks to patients how they are really doing. We often notice that they are in poor condition by the fact that the sick person is breathing extremely fast and superficially. There are patients who tell me they are fine when I first meet them. Then when I check in on them again later, they are already struggling to breathe.


Some patients feel they don't need any additional measures because they can't assess their condition. I then sometimes get into a dilemma. Should I call in a doctor when the patient doesn't even want me to?

When I start work, I always ask myself if I have all the material I need in the Covid 19 zone. Because once I'm in, I can't get out right away. If I forget something, I have to pick up the phone so someone from outside the zone can bring me the materials. So 5 to 10 minutes go by. It also always takes me 10 to 15 minutes longer than normal to put on the protective clothing. This includes goggles, mask, gloves and coat. After each patient, I have to change gloves and sanitize my hands.

Some days I spend up to six hours in the zone. After that, I am totally exhausted. You can't drink anything on the Covid 19 ward and you can't go to the toilet - even if you had to. And you sweat like in a sauna. In addition, your vision is restricted by the plexiglass goggles. So I have to rely more on my feeling.

***
The situation at Zurich's hospitals has worsened in recent weeks. The number of hospitalizations has risen to around 500 - more than twice as many as at the peak of the first wave. The situation is particularly tense in the intensive care units. While at the beginning of November, just under 40 Covid 19 patients had to be cared for in intensive care units, the number has now risen to over 100.

***
Fiona Lüthi: If one of four patients on early duty is unstable, the other three have to wait for me - sometimes for up to two hours. Unless another certified nurse has a short time to take care of my patients. However, it can also happen that the condition of another patient deteriorates and I notice this too late.


Currently, there are patients on the ward who are already in a critical condition. They can go downhill rapidly at any time, but we don't have the same equipment as in the intensive care unit. The fear that the patient will suddenly stop breathing accompanies me. We always have to ask ourselves: How long can a patient hold out before they have to go to the ICU?

There is a fine line. The doctors make sure that we find a bed somewhere in the canton as quickly as possible, but the situation is tense. Sometimes we also get patients who were stable in the intensive care unit but have not actually recovered enough to be cared for in our Covid 19 ward. On top of that, the sick people never meet anyone.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
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