Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #18761  
Old 30.12.2020, 18:22
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Basel
Posts: 225
Groaned at 19 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 299 Times in 141 Posts
Polymath has a reputation beyond reputePolymath has a reputation beyond reputePolymath has a reputation beyond reputePolymath has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
My GP told me to take 800 IE per day (recommended dose for adult), not more, as I my blood test showed sufficient level. My husband with vitamin D insufficiency should take 3000 per day for few weeks and after that take the normal dose (800). I don't know why people tend to take 5000 and more per day for months.

As for the small children, vitamin D drops are given to all newborns and it's a very important supplement for them in our climate, so I believe there is no minimal age limit, only the dosage should be correct for the age.
You should take whatever amount you feel comfortable with after discussing it with healthcare practitioners as necessary. I can’t recommend a specific dose. I can only say that I think it’s sensible to supplement for a short part of the year whilst living in this climate. I take what would be considered a high dose per day. Occasionally I forget it or I’m out and it’s no big deal.
Reply With Quote
  #18762  
Old 30.12.2020, 18:28
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ausserschwyz
Posts: 1,330
Groaned at 54 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 2,529 Times in 989 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
This is a good point. It’s estimated up to 40% of excess deaths were caused by the lockdown.
At least. More like 80, I guess, in first wave mostly caused by us here in Switzerland unable to leave the house. Most excess deaths in second wave caused by people unable to eat out after 2200, 1900, at all.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
  #18763  
Old 30.12.2020, 18:33
speakeron's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: 2.72548 K
Posts: 1,572
Groaned at 40 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 1,497 Times in 746 Posts
speakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Yes, but more importantly get all the sunlight you can.

5000 iu? What is the highest dosage one can buy in CH pharmacies? I have now something with 600 ie per capsule, of which I take 4 per day.
This is what you can get in Swiss pharmacies (Abgabekategorie 'D' is without prescription, 'B' is with):

https://compendium.ch/search?q=vitamin%20D3

Ordering online (e.g. iHerb) will be a lot cheaper.

If you're taking more than 4000 IU daily, consider taking K2 (90 to 180 mcg of K2 MK7 is a normal dose). This promotes calcium deposition into bones rather than arteries and studies have shown improvements in cardiovascular health. Also, get yearly vitamin D tests.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4566462/

Don't take K2 if you're taking vitamin K antagonists (blood thinners) without discussing it with your doctor.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank speakeron for this useful post:
  #18764  
Old 30.12.2020, 18:45
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Basel
Posts: 225
Groaned at 19 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 299 Times in 141 Posts
Polymath has a reputation beyond reputePolymath has a reputation beyond reputePolymath has a reputation beyond reputePolymath has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
At least. More like 80, I guess, in first wave mostly caused by us here in Switzerland unable to leave the house. Most excess deaths in second wave caused by people unable to eat out after 2200, 1900, at all.
In Japan more people died from suicide in October than the total number that are said to have died from covid in the whole of 2020. There was a huge spike in the number of suicide deaths, particularly women who, compared to men, disproportionately work in sectors that were heavily impacted by lockdowns. Japan has a history of high suicide rates but until 2019 this had been steadily decreasing.
Reply With Quote
  #18765  
Old 30.12.2020, 18:54
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 5,277
Groaned at 92 Times in 57 Posts
Thanked 5,707 Times in 2,613 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Curiously, has any more information been released about that? I did a Google translate on the article in your link, but it doesn't say anything in terms of the person's age or symptoms related to the cause of death, etc.
https://www.swissmedic.ch/swissmedic...9-impfung.html

Death was nothing to do with vaccine!

“ The news of the death of a 91-year-old person in the canton of Lucerne after she was vaccinated against Covid-19 is circulating on social media channels and information platforms. Investigations by the cantonal health authorities and by Swissmedic have shown that, due to the medical history and the course of the disease, a connection between death and the Covid-19 vaccination is highly unlikely.
A few days after a Covid 19 vaccination, a 91-year-old person who suffered from several serious previous illnesses died in a retirement and nursing home in the canton of Lucerne. Neither the medical history nor the acute course of the disease suggest a direct causal connection between the Covid-19 vaccination and death. The comprehensive information available indicates a natural cause of death. This was also noted on the death certificate.
So far, no unknown side effects have occurred with vaccinations against the novel coronavirus. At this point in time, there is no evidence of a change in the benefit-risk profile of the vaccine used.”
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Island Monkey for this useful post:
  #18766  
Old 30.12.2020, 18:56
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ausserschwyz
Posts: 1,330
Groaned at 54 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 2,529 Times in 989 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
In Japan more people died from suicide in October than the total number that are said to have died from covid in the whole of 2020. There was a huge spike in the number of suicide deaths, particularly women who, compared to men, disproportionately work in sectors that were heavily impacted by lockdowns. Japan has a history of high suicide rates but until 2019 this had been steadily decreasing.
Now do Switzerland.
Reply With Quote
  #18767  
Old 30.12.2020, 19:03
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 1,757
Groaned at 213 Times in 166 Posts
Thanked 1,986 Times in 977 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Just as an aside, I am wondering 'how many of the research scientists working on those vaccines are Brexiters'- would love to know.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users groan at JackieH for this post:
  #18768  
Old 30.12.2020, 19:11
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,098
Groaned at 444 Times in 260 Posts
Thanked 2,734 Times in 1,244 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Just as an aside, I am wondering 'how many of the research scientists working on those vaccines are Brexiters'- would love to know.
It’s probably time for you to move on, 2021 just around the corner.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at TonyClifton for this post:
  #18769  
Old 30.12.2020, 19:11
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Thalwil
Posts: 639
Groaned at 30 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 560 Times in 280 Posts
TinyK is considered knowledgeableTinyK is considered knowledgeableTinyK is considered knowledgeable
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
This is a good point. It’s estimated up to 40% of excess deaths were caused by the lockdown.
Lockdown in Switzerland was in spring and the majority of the excess deaths were in autumn/winter.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank TinyK for this useful post:
  #18770  
Old 30.12.2020, 19:11
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 15,371
Groaned at 499 Times in 399 Posts
Thanked 22,321 Times in 9,068 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Just as an aside, I am wondering 'how many of the research scientists working on those vaccines are Brexiters'- would love to know.
Why?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #18771  
Old 30.12.2020, 19:14
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 1,757
Groaned at 213 Times in 166 Posts
Thanked 1,986 Times in 977 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

most of the time, experts interviewed in the UK are clearly foreigners. And symbolism of openeness and international collaboration.
Reply With Quote
  #18772  
Old 30.12.2020, 19:14
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,034
Groaned at 446 Times in 384 Posts
Thanked 18,517 Times in 9,811 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
This is a good point. It’s estimated up to 40% of excess deaths were caused by the lockdown.
Are you sure it was not 40.43%
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #18773  
Old 30.12.2020, 19:16
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Thalwil
Posts: 639
Groaned at 30 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 560 Times in 280 Posts
TinyK is considered knowledgeableTinyK is considered knowledgeableTinyK is considered knowledgeable
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
At least. More like 80, I guess, in first wave mostly caused by us here in Switzerland unable to leave the house. Most excess deaths in second wave caused by people unable to eat out after 2200, 1900, at all.
Canton Vaud even decided to open the mountain restaurants to avoid the excess deaths of the skiers from freezing while consuming their hot dogs and french fries outside.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank TinyK for this useful post:
  #18774  
Old 30.12.2020, 20:20
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Basel
Posts: 225
Groaned at 19 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 299 Times in 141 Posts
Polymath has a reputation beyond reputePolymath has a reputation beyond reputePolymath has a reputation beyond reputePolymath has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Now do Switzerland.
You appear to be irritated that I can substantiate my comments. Note that I do not post below for your benefit but for those that have a genuine interest in understanding excess mortality statistics.

Below is an abstract from a recent study published in October by S. Kortüm, P. Frey, D. Becker, H.-J. Ott, H-P. Schlaudt, Corona-Independent Excess Mortality Due to Reduced Use of Emergency Medical Care in the Corona Pandemic: A Population-Based Observational Study

Abstract

Background
A significant decrease in the number of cases of emergency medical care during the first phase of the Corona pandemic has been reported from various regions of the world. Due to the lack of or delayed use of medical assistance, particularly in the case of time-critical clinical pictures (myocardial infarction, stroke), a corona collateral damage syndrome is postulated regarding possible health consequences. The present study investigates changes in the use of preclinical and clinical emergency care and effects on overall mortality in a rural area.

Methods
The number of patients in the emergency department at the Klinikum Hochrhein and the ambulance service were retrospectively aggregated and analyzed regarding the total number and selected tracer diagnoses and alarm keywords. The investigation period was the 9th to 22nd calendar week 2020 compared to the identical period of the previous year. In addition, the death rates in the district were collected directly from the registries and related to the number of patients in emergency care.

Results
Overall, the number of patients in clinical and preclinical emergency care declined significantly during the investigation period. This concerned in particular emergency inpatient treatment of patients with exacerbations or complications of severe chronic diseases. At the same time, excess mortality occurred in April 2020, which was still highly significant even after excluding deaths on or with COVID-19.

Discussion
Only about 55 % of the excess mortality in April 2020 can be attributed to COVID-19 and is associated with the decline in inpatient emergency treatment, especially of chronically ill patients. Since a drift of patients with the use of other service providers is unlikely, we assume that fears of infection in overburdened hospitals, one-sided public communication and reporting, and the extent of contact restrictions have contributed significantly to the decline in case numbers and to excess mortality (collateral damage).

Conclusion
For similar situations in the future, it is strongly recommended to make crisis communication and media coverage more balanced so as not to prevent people with acute health problems from receiving medical assistance. Contact restrictions should be critically reviewed and limited to the objectively necessary minimum.

The study took place in Waldshut, Baden-Württemberg on the border with Koblenz in Canton Aargau. The full text article is available here:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...58v1.full-text
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Polymath for this useful post:
  #18775  
Old 30.12.2020, 20:30
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,034
Groaned at 446 Times in 384 Posts
Thanked 18,517 Times in 9,811 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

@Polymath

From your link "fears of infection in overburdened hospitals have contributed significantly to the decline in case numbers and to excess mortality ".

So nothing to do with lockdown; "lockdown" is not mentioned in your link.
Reply With Quote
  #18776  
Old 30.12.2020, 20:41
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ausserschwyz
Posts: 1,330
Groaned at 54 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 2,529 Times in 989 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
You appear to be irritated that I can substantiate my comments. Note that I do not post below for your benefit but for those that have a genuine interest in understanding excess mortality statistics.

Below is an abstract from a recent study published in October by S. Kortüm, P. Frey, D. Becker, H.-J. Ott, H-P. Schlaudt, Corona-Independent Excess Mortality Due to Reduced Use of Emergency Medical Care in the Corona Pandemic: A Population-Based Observational Study

Abstract

Background
A significant decrease in the number of cases of emergency medical care during the first phase of the Corona pandemic has been reported from various regions of the world. Due to the lack of or delayed use of medical assistance, particularly in the case of time-critical clinical pictures (myocardial infarction, stroke), a corona collateral damage syndrome is postulated regarding possible health consequences. The present study investigates changes in the use of preclinical and clinical emergency care and effects on overall mortality in a rural area.

Methods
The number of patients in the emergency department at the Klinikum Hochrhein and the ambulance service were retrospectively aggregated and analyzed regarding the total number and selected tracer diagnoses and alarm keywords. The investigation period was the 9th to 22nd calendar week 2020 compared to the identical period of the previous year. In addition, the death rates in the district were collected directly from the registries and related to the number of patients in emergency care.

Results
Overall, the number of patients in clinical and preclinical emergency care declined significantly during the investigation period. This concerned in particular emergency inpatient treatment of patients with exacerbations or complications of severe chronic diseases. At the same time, excess mortality occurred in April 2020, which was still highly significant even after excluding deaths on or with COVID-19.

Discussion
Only about 55 % of the excess mortality in April 2020 can be attributed to COVID-19 and is associated with the decline in inpatient emergency treatment, especially of chronically ill patients. Since a drift of patients with the use of other service providers is unlikely, we assume that fears of infection in overburdened hospitals, one-sided public communication and reporting, and the extent of contact restrictions have contributed significantly to the decline in case numbers and to excess mortality (collateral damage).

Conclusion
For similar situations in the future, it is strongly recommended to make crisis communication and media coverage more balanced so as not to prevent people with acute health problems from receiving medical assistance. Contact restrictions should be critically reviewed and limited to the objectively necessary minimum.

The study took place in Waldshut, Baden-Württemberg on the border with Koblenz in Canton Aargau. The full text article is available here:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...58v1.full-text
LOL at your opening.

For the rest: Whatever the numbers, all of this is a direct consequence of Covid and people fearing it. People are avoiding hospitals because there is a significant risk of getting infected there (I know of three cases personally). Also, people have issues getting appointments. Currently, hospitals are not forced to postpone treatment by regulation, but by necessity as capacity is at limit. So yes, more detrimental effect on the general health system. To protect the health system for the benefit of everyone was why the measures were introduced.

Cause and effect. I don't know why this is so difficult.

Your Japan example is so ridiculous, I will not comment.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
  #18777  
Old 30.12.2020, 20:43
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Basel
Posts: 225
Groaned at 19 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 299 Times in 141 Posts
Polymath has a reputation beyond reputePolymath has a reputation beyond reputePolymath has a reputation beyond reputePolymath has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
@Polymath

From your link "fears of infection in overburdened hospitals have contributed significantly to the decline in case numbers and to excess mortality ".

So nothing to do with lockdown; "lockdown" is not mentioned in your link.
I never said that it did. Not sure what gave you that impression.
Reply With Quote
  #18778  
Old 30.12.2020, 20:54
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 1,757
Groaned at 213 Times in 166 Posts
Thanked 1,986 Times in 977 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Yes, but more importantly get all the sunlight you can.

5000 iu? What is the highest dosage one can buy in CH pharmacies? I have now something with 600 ie per capsule, of which I take 4 per day.

Only just been advised by a friend from Vermont to take 5000iu- which seems massive. Just got some and the recommended dose is 400- so happy to increase to 800- but 5000??? Risk of kidney stones, etc. Never taken any before.
Reply With Quote
  #18779  
Old 30.12.2020, 20:58
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Basel
Posts: 225
Groaned at 19 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 299 Times in 141 Posts
Polymath has a reputation beyond reputePolymath has a reputation beyond reputePolymath has a reputation beyond reputePolymath has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
LOL at your opening.

For the rest: Whatever the numbers, all of this is a direct consequence of Covid and people fearing it. People are avoiding hospitals because there is a significant risk of getting infected there (I know of three cases personally). Also, people have issues getting appointments. Currently, hospitals are not forced to postpone treatment by regulation, but by necessity as capacity is at limit. So yes, more detrimental effect on the general health system. To protect the health system for the benefit of everyone was why the measures were introduced.

Cause and effect. I don't know why this is so difficult.

Your Japan example is so ridiculous, I will not comment.
It's difficult to discern exactly how your comment is intended to be interpreted. It is rather blunt and appears to acknowledge that there have been excess deaths caused by lockdown and you demanded a local example. Some people would find it a bit rude.

I'm not sure why you find the example of Japan so ridiculous. It's not only Japan. I have a colleague in Malaysia who poignantly expressed to me cases of increased suicides occurring during the lockdown. The effects of lockdowns around the world are no laughing matter. It's not only deaths, which of course are difficult to link directly. It's well documented that there have been more cases of domestic violence, for example. Many more women (and men) abused at home while not being able to leave their homes. This is not ridiculous.
Reply With Quote
  #18780  
Old 30.12.2020, 21:01
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ausserschwyz
Posts: 1,330
Groaned at 54 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 2,529 Times in 989 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Only just been advised by a friend from Vermont to take 5000iu- which seems massive. Just got some and the recommended dose is 400- so happy to increase to 800- but 5000??? Risk of kidney stones, etc. Never taken any before.
This is what the Swiss govt recommends apparently. I understand in total, not supplementary. The risk of OD seems small.



https://www.blv.admin.ch/dam/blv/de/...-vitamin-d.pdf

Last edited by komsomolez; 30.12.2020 at 21:45. Reason: corrected link
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
cold, corona, coronavirus, covid, covid-19, flu, health, medical, virus




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (0 members and 4 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coronavirus Jokes makeabigwish Daily life 131 15.04.2021 00:07
Coronavirus closed janvier Forum support 18 01.11.2020 13:12
Paid holidays and coronavirus Curtiss Employment 2 20.04.2020 09:22
Coronavirus scammers are out there - be warned Medea Fleecestealer Daily life 9 18.04.2020 18:53
Leaving Switzerland for UK during coronavirus barkingtreewolf Leaving Switzerland 19 11.04.2020 11:45


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0