Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #19101  
Old 05.01.2021, 15:34
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Aargau
Posts: 120
Groaned at 41 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 243 Times in 95 Posts
Harness is considered knowledgeableHarness is considered knowledgeableHarness is considered knowledgeable
Re: Coronavirus

I guess one person's 'mildly concering' is another person's 'terrifying'.
This thread is peppered with people being groaned for stating facts, and others being thanked for projecting their somewhat highly strung emotions.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Harness for this useful post:
  #19102  
Old 05.01.2021, 15:40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Thalwil
Posts: 285
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 174 Times in 92 Posts
TinyK has earned some respectTinyK has earned some respect
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
If they want to keep the economy open, then keep kids home from school and see how that effects the #'s. I don't believe for one second that primary school kids cannot bring the virus home to their parents. My 9-year old brings colds home to us from school every year (including a bad one last month), and there is no logical reason to think that the COVID virus is any different in that regard.
The studies by ETH of antibodies in 2500 kids and double PCR tests of 600+ kids in december didn't show any superspreading happening in schools. The pediatricians had similar observations during the year.

There should be medical and scientific reasons considered, not logical. You don't find it illogical that the vaccination schemes for different infections are different, right? Why cannot the infection spreading scheme be different too.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank TinyK for this useful post:
  #19103  
Old 05.01.2021, 15:47
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 919
Groaned at 347 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 2,142 Times in 1,028 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Sorry, but that is a bit harsh. This is called a pandemic for a reason; we are all in this together, like it or not. Unfortunately many have done everything possible and still got the virus. And most importantly there are those that can't achieve protection on their own, that's why it's important everyone do their part, some more, some less, depending on situation. I don't find it much different that common courtesy. Laying the blame game during a pandemic is not the way to go.
You answered my post saying it is wrong to blame others by saying it's wrong to play the blame game

Quote:
View Post
I guess one person's 'mildly concering' is another person's 'terrifying'.
This thread is peppered with people being groaned for stating facts, and others being thanked for projecting their somewhat highly strung emotions.
If there's one thing this thread has confirmed it is how bad the majority of people are at understanding risk.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users groan at TonyClifton for this post:
  #19104  
Old 05.01.2021, 15:48
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ausserschwyz
Posts: 976
Groaned at 29 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 1,851 Times in 713 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I'm willing to bet that "non-essential shops" are not an important vector. Ultimately lots of people are still visiting and eating with extended family. That's the problem and always was.

Has anyone here actually been infected if taking all the precautions AND isn't in a risky profession AND doesn't have kids or a partner in a risky profession?

That's to say I don't think many people who just go shopping get infected at all.
I agree with the first part.

Of the people I know who got infected, there are a two without kids and where also partner is working from home. Impossible to say whether they took all precautions, but at least they say they did and have no idea where they got it.

We have kids in school and my wife works in a doctor's practice, so this is where I expect potential trouble from. No concerns with shopping, but I do think indoor restautants need to stay closed.

Edit: Question of course is also what "precautions" are. Do you meet no one outside of you househould, or still within the 10 persons limit allowed? The idea of totally bubbling off is quite theoretical in my view if you want some form of life.

Last edited by komsomolez; 05.01.2021 at 16:05.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
  #19105  
Old 05.01.2021, 16:08
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 1,161
Groaned at 27 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 1,577 Times in 818 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I agree with the first part.

Of the people I know who got infected, there are a two without kids and where also partner is working from home. Impossible to say whether they took all precautions, but at least they say they did and have no idea where they got it.

We have kids in school and my wife works in a doctor's practice, so this is where I expect potential trouble from. No concerns with shopping, but I do think indoor restautants need to stay closed.

Edit: Question of course is also what "precautions" are. Do you meet no one outside of you househould, or still within the 10 persons limit allowed? The idea of totally bubbling off is quite theoretical in my view if you want some form of life.
I've met nobody since the summer. Even then was 100% outside and distanced.

I don't wash my hands but that's because I have a skin condition and both water and ethanol are very bad for me.
Reply With Quote
  #19106  
Old 05.01.2021, 16:27
baboon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 4,206
Groaned at 160 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 7,328 Times in 3,351 Posts
baboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
This thread is peppered with people being groaned for stating facts
If you’re talking about the likes of Clifton, the actual facts posted are very very few and far between.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank baboon for this useful post:
  #19107  
Old 05.01.2021, 16:35
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 4,206
Groaned at 221 Times in 155 Posts
Thanked 8,496 Times in 3,222 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
The studies by ETH of antibodies in 2500 kids and double PCR tests of 600+ kids in december didn't show any superspreading happening in schools. The pediatricians had similar observations during the year.

There should be medical and scientific reasons considered, not logical. You don't find it illogical that the vaccination schemes for different infections are different, right? Why cannot the infection spreading scheme be different too.
First of all, the new mutations of the virus are far more contagious among kids than the COVID variation that we've been dealing with in the past, and there is evidence emerging that the new mutations also affect kids more strongly in terms of symptoms. The only reason I have ever seen stated as to why primary school kids don't spread the virus easily is because they cough and sneeze less forcefully, thus causing them to expel respiratory droplets less easily. But as I mentioned, primary kids brings viruses home all the time to their families, from school. There is no reason why they would be incapable of bringing the COVID virus home as well.

And if primary kids are not capable of spreading the virus in schools, then why is it that they now have to wear masks in primary schools in Germany and France, etc.? And why are they sometimes being asked to 'socially distance' from one another? e.g. to have their desks placed farther apart.

Also, my trust in regard to what we are told in terms of what is safe or recommended and what isn't only runs so deep. Last March and April, we were all being told to not wear or buy masks because they're ineffective, but now masks are mandatory in all public places throughout much of the world because as we now know, masks can indeed help prevent someone from spreading the virus.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Pancakes for this useful post:
This user groans at Pancakes for this post:
  #19108  
Old 05.01.2021, 17:22
Talk to you later's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: ZH
Posts: 756
Groaned at 41 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 1,363 Times in 533 Posts
Talk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

This thread never stops giving! Just doing a "drive by" post to say that you guys are awesome

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Talk to you later for this useful post:
  #19109  
Old 05.01.2021, 17:38
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 919
Groaned at 347 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 2,142 Times in 1,028 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
If you’re talking about the likes of Clifton, the actual facts posted are very very few and far between.
Well this is of no great surprise coming from you considering you already admitted yesterday that you won't even countenance any articles that challenge your preconceived opinions. If 26 papers and articles containing facts and data challenging the effectiveness of lockdown written by various worldwide academics aren't worth your consideration then certainly nothing I post will be!

Quote:
View Post
I didn’t read it because I saw it is from the same idiots as the Great Barrington declaration. Totally discredited for that, cannot see there is any possibility of a balanced article coming from there.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #19110  
Old 05.01.2021, 17:46
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 919
Groaned at 347 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 2,142 Times in 1,028 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
First of all, the new mutations of the virus are far more contagious among kids than the COVID variation that we've been dealing with in the past, and there is evidence emerging that the new mutations also affect kids more strongly in terms of symptoms.
This is dangerous misinformation and at this moment in time not true. A nurse was on the BBC saying similar things earlier this week and it immediately had to be corrected by the President of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health.


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55518248

https://twitter.com/bbc5live/status/1345465278889652227

Last edited by TonyClifton; 05.01.2021 at 17:56.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #19111  
Old 05.01.2021, 17:57
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,934
Groaned at 337 Times in 228 Posts
Thanked 11,174 Times in 3,872 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

It must have been mentioned here before, but if not I watch this character’s YouTube channel each day. A retired UK GP and Phd who give a daily insight in a rather laboured but honest and authorities manner.

More accurate and up-to-date info than you will ever find on EF. Worth subscribing to...

Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #19112  
Old 05.01.2021, 18:08
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 984
Groaned at 133 Times in 106 Posts
Thanked 1,229 Times in 579 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Yes, very interesting guy and worth watching. Well qualified too. What are your qualifications Clifton?

In the meantime, here is what the BMJ has to say

''Are children more susceptible to the new variant?

Yes, in comparison with the non-variant virus. Speaking at a press briefing, Neil Ferguson, director of the Medical Research Council’s Centre for Global Infectious Disease Analysis at Imperial College London and NERVTAG member, said that during the November lockdown in England there was a “general shift in the distribution of the virus towards children—for both the variant and the non-variant [virus].” This was expected, because of schools remaining open during the lockdown, he said, and among those aged under 15 there were slightly more cases of the variant virus in the community than the non-variant, though not significantly so.

But Barclay, who also sits on NERVTAG, said, “Let’s be clear. We’re not saying that this is a virus that specifically attacks children or is any more specific in its ability to infect children. But we know that SARS-CoV-2, as it emerged, was not as efficient at infecting children as it was adults. There are many hypotheses [as to why], but one is the expression of the ACE2 receptor that could be different in children. So if the [new variant] virus is having an easier time of finding and entering the cells, then that would put children on a more level playing field, if you like.”


Being concerned is hardly displaying hysteria. There are good reasons why Johnson has now closed all UK schools.

And yes, when you are beginning to lose family and friends, some 50 year olds- it is very worrying indeed- and I will not get my information for anonymous on EF.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank JackieH for this useful post:
  #19113  
Old 05.01.2021, 18:14
Ato Ato is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,084
Groaned at 14 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 1,928 Times in 799 Posts
Ato has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Yes, very interesting guy and worth watching. Well qualified too. What are your qualifications Clifton?

In the meantime, here is what the BMJ has to say

Are children more susceptible to the new variant?

Yes, in comparison with the non-variant virus. Speaking at a press briefing, Neil Ferguson, director of the Medical Research Council’s Centre for Global Infectious Disease Analysis at Imperial College London and NERVTAG member, said that during the November lockdown in England there was a “general shift in the distribution of the virus towards children—for both the variant and the non-variant [virus].” This was expected, because of schools remaining open during the lockdown, he said, and among those aged under 15 there were slightly more cases of the variant virus in the community than the non-variant, though not significantly so.

But Barclay, who also sits on NERVTAG, said, “Let’s be clear. We’re not saying that this is a virus that specifically attacks children or is any more specific in its ability to infect children. But we know that SARS-CoV-2, as it emerged, was not as efficient at infecting children as it was adults. There are many hypotheses [as to why], but one is the expression of the ACE2 receptor that could be different in children. So if the [new variant] virus is having an easier time of finding and entering the cells, then that would put children on a more level playing field, if you like.”
And your qualifications? Come off it, he linked to a reputable news source and I'm thinking of groaning him for it due to it being so out of character.

It appears what you've posted says Yes but not significantly and No. So it looks like you're supporting what "Clifton" posted whilst also having a dig at him.
Reply With Quote
  #19114  
Old 05.01.2021, 18:24
Darcy1's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Esslingen,Egg
Posts: 380
Groaned at 66 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 484 Times in 180 Posts
Darcy1 has an excellent reputationDarcy1 has an excellent reputationDarcy1 has an excellent reputationDarcy1 has an excellent reputation
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Well this is of no great surprise coming from you considering you already admitted yesterday that you won't even countenance any articles that challenge your preconceived opinions. If 26 papers and articles containing facts and data challenging the effectiveness of lockdown written by various worldwide academics aren't worth your consideration then certainly nothing I post will be!
So stop posting altogether then or stay off this thread.It will please alot of people.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Darcy1 for this useful post:
This user groans at Darcy1 for this post:
  #19115  
Old 05.01.2021, 19:08
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Aargau
Posts: 120
Groaned at 41 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 243 Times in 95 Posts
Harness is considered knowledgeableHarness is considered knowledgeableHarness is considered knowledgeable
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
So stop posting altogether then or stay off this thread.It will please alot of people.
Sounds like the cancel culture is back!
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Harness for this useful post:
  #19116  
Old 05.01.2021, 19:28
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 15,895
Groaned at 339 Times in 234 Posts
Thanked 18,380 Times in 9,552 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
This thread never stops giving! Just doing a "drive by" post to say that you guys are awesome

A very good post.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
This user groans at MusicChick for this post:
  #19117  
Old 05.01.2021, 19:29
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 984
Groaned at 133 Times in 106 Posts
Thanked 1,229 Times in 579 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
And your qualifications? Come off it, he linked to a reputable news source and I'm thinking of groaning him for it due to it being so out of character.

It appears what you've posted says Yes but not significantly and No. So it looks like you're supporting what "Clifton" posted whilst also having a dig at him.
I have no qualifications- I live with someone who has and with whom I discuss research he finds, as well as many medics, relatives and friends. And the BMJ we still get.

My OH is 75- but I will listen to his opinion over yours or a few others on here.

Last edited by JackieH; 05.01.2021 at 20:28.
Reply With Quote
  #19118  
Old 05.01.2021, 19:33
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 984
Groaned at 133 Times in 106 Posts
Thanked 1,229 Times in 579 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

How old are your medic parents Music? You should send them this meme.

Confirmed today on the Corona Virus UK Briefing that the fast transmission of the new variant in children is the reason they have been forced to close schools.

Last edited by JackieH; 05.01.2021 at 19:46.
Reply With Quote
  #19119  
Old 05.01.2021, 19:59
baboon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 4,206
Groaned at 160 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 7,328 Times in 3,351 Posts
baboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Well this is of no great surprise coming from you considering you already admitted yesterday that you won't even countenance any articles that challenge your preconceived opinions. If 26 papers and articles containing facts and data challenging the effectiveness of lockdown written by various worldwide academics aren't worth your consideration then certainly nothing I post will be!
As I wrote in that post, I don’t waste my time on discredited sources. And when it comes to a pandemic I will read virologists and not economists.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank baboon for this useful post:
  #19120  
Old 05.01.2021, 20:00
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Zurich
Posts: 14
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 35 Times in 8 Posts
gizmondo has earned some respectgizmondo has earned some respect
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
And if primary kids are not capable of spreading the virus in schools, then why is it that they now have to wear masks in primary schools in Germany and France, etc.? And why are they sometimes being asked to 'socially distance' from one another? e.g. to have their desks placed farther apart.
One possibility is that politicians there were pressured to impose those restrictions by concerned population, without much evidence that it's effective. If so, using that as an argument in favor of pressuring local politicians would be kind of circular reasoning.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cold, corona, coronavirus, covid, covid-19, flu, health, medical, virus




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (1 members and 1 guests)
londonboy
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0