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Old 08.01.2021, 14:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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At last, from Monday

''All international passengers will soon have to test negative for Covid-19 before travelling to the UK.

People arriving by plane, train or boat, including UK nationals, will have to take a test up to 72 hours before leaving the country they are in.

Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said travellers "can't board... without having that negative test".
Just the 10 months too late!
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Old 08.01.2021, 14:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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At last, from Monday

''All international passengers will soon have to test negative for Covid-19 before travelling to the UK.

People arriving by plane, train or boat, including UK nationals, will have to take a test up to 72 hours before leaving the country they are in.
Also connecting flights? I plan to cross the Atlantic in a few months, hope I don't have to stop by London but one never knows.
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Old 08.01.2021, 15:02
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Re: Coronavirus

The first time the official number of daily US deaths exceeds 4,000.

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A new study conducted by researchers at the University of Texas Medical Branch suggests that Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine is effective against a mutation of the coronavirus.

The data published on preprint server bioRxiv suggests that the vaccine can neutralize a key mutation of the virus found in the strains found in the U.K. and South Africa.
94% effective Moderna Covid vaccine becomes third jab approved for UK use
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  #19304  
Old 08.01.2021, 15:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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Fair point, I could see that could be the case. The counter to that would be in such towns and villages the support for the SVP is higher and they have taken a lockdown sceptic position, I really wonder though.

The biggest mystery to me throughout this whole pandemic is how many people who shout loudest about others following the rules, don't believe they apply to them. Whether it be celebrities snapped without a mask, or the droves that have flocked to ski resorts and beaches during lockdown. This being the case, if the shops were open, perhaps people would use them.
I think that's the case here looking at who has been infected and who hasn't (taking our teachers out of the equation!). The Clifton wing seems unaffected, we moderates unaffected, and the Baboon wing to be teeming with it!

Not really surprised. The guidelines have allowed some relatively dangerous activities and enforced or recommended some pretty pointless stuff. Some seem to trust the guidelines 100% rather than make their own judgement - which probably hasn't been wise (packed mountain transports, restaurants, not making age based calls)

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 08.01.2021 at 15:21.
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  #19305  
Old 08.01.2021, 15:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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Just the 10 months too late!
Given the number of cases and R in the UK absolutely pointless.
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  #19306  
Old 08.01.2021, 15:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'm not sure if even active support is required, I think sympathy to their situation would suffice. I think this is rather an exercise in getting the governments to reconsider their position as opposed to a long term strategy.
I remembered a story from last April/May, sorry for the lack of details but we live in a small world. Last May an acquaintance A with a business complained at the lack of support from the government, literally saying if the force us to close, they should compensate the loses, we get almost nothing, it's insulting...etc.

A month later when all the restrictions lifted we met acquaintance B who also has a shop and asked since we listened to horror stories from small business owners. The answer was: I declare all my income for tax purposes. Since, the support is proportional to declared income, no problem at all.

So, there's always a lot of unknown details behind every situation. Be skeptical of authorities, and also be skeptical of protesters.

Last edited by Axa; 08.01.2021 at 16:17. Reason: typo + grammar, need moar coffee
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  #19307  
Old 08.01.2021, 16:04
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think that's the case here looking at who has been infected and who hasn't (taking our teachers out of the equation!). The Clifton wing seems unaffected, we moderates unaffected, and the Baboon wing to be teeming with it!

Not really surprised. The guidelines have allowed some relatively dangerous activities and enforced or recommended some pretty pointless stuff. Some seem to trust the guidelines 100% rather than make their own judgement - which probably hasn't been wise (packed mountain transports, restaurants, not making age based calls)
Glad it's not only me that noticed that, ahem, correlation
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  #19308  
Old 08.01.2021, 16:38
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Re: Coronavirus

According to 20 Minutes, Berset wishes to introduce the following on 13th January.

"Home office: Employers are obliged to arrange home office wherever this is possible due to the nature of the activity and can be implemented with reasonable effort. If home office is arranged, however, the employer does not owe the employee any compensation for expenses (electricity costs, contributions to rental costs, etc.).
- Closure of shops and markets for non-daily needs: Shops and markets are closed. Shopping shops and markets offering goods for daily use are excluded. It is still possible to collect ordered goods on site ("click and collect").
- Private events: A maximum of ten persons from a maximum of two households may participate in private events. Children are also counted towards this number.
- Crowds in public spaces: Crowds in public spaces are limited from fifteen to ten people.
- Further measures at the workplace: Where home office is not or only partially possible, further measures at the workplace will be enacted: For the protection of workers indoors, masks will now be compulsory wherever more than one person is present in a room. A large distance between workplaces in the same room is no longer sufficient. Employers must also document in writing the measures adopted to protect workers and to enforce the distance and hygiene rules - after consulting the workers. This increases transparency and also the involvement of employees.
- Protection of employees at particular risk: For certain persons, infection with the coronavirus can be more dangerous than average, as the disease can be severe or even fatal, especially for them.
The disease can be severe or even fatal for them in particular. Particularly at-risk persons should therefore be specifically protected without discriminating against them. To this end, the right to home office or equivalent protection at the workplace or leave of absence for particularly at-risk persons is to be introduced, as in spring 2020."

I thought the protection for employees at particular risk might be of interest to a few people here.
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  #19309  
Old 08.01.2021, 16:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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I remembered a story from last April/May, sorry for the lack of details but we live in a small world. Last May an acquaintance A with a business complained at the lack of support from the government, literally saying if the force us to close, they should compensate the loses, we get almost nothing, it's insulting...etc.

A month later when all the restrictions lifted we met acquaintance B who also has a shop and asked since we listened to horror stories from small business owners. The answer was: I declare all my income for tax purposes. Since, the support is proportional to declared income, no problem at all.

So, there's always a lot of unknown details behind every situation. Be skeptical of authorities, and also be skeptical of protesters.
This is similar to the self employed complaining in the UK.
A lot of them are 'abusing' the system by paying themselves minimum wage, then dividends, which attract less tax and NI.
Then they are complaining they get nothing out of furlough, when in effect they are putting hardly anything in.
Obviously, a generalisation, I'm sure there are many genuine cases as well.
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Old 08.01.2021, 16:51
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Re: Coronavirus

Curiously, are high school and university students doing home-school now or are they physically in the classroom? (I can't seem to remember what the latest news is in that regard).

I think they should really consider enforcing home-schooling again if they really want to bring those numbers down and try to help save the economy. Teenagers especially are one of the biggest "spreaders," I guess... and of course, with these new mutations, primary school kids also spread those variants more easily.
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  #19311  
Old 08.01.2021, 17:00
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Re: Coronavirus

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According to 20 Minutes, Berset wishes to introduce the following on 13th January.

"Home office: Employers are obliged to arrange home office wherever this is possible due to the nature of the activity and can be implemented with reasonable effort. If home office is arranged, however, the employer does not owe the employee any compensation for expenses (electricity costs, contributions to rental costs, etc.).
- Closure of shops and markets for non-daily needs: Shops and markets are closed. Shopping shops and markets offering goods for daily use are excluded. It is still possible to collect ordered goods on site ("click and collect").
- Private events: A maximum of ten persons from a maximum of two households may participate in private events. Children are also counted towards this number.
- Crowds in public spaces: Crowds in public spaces are limited from fifteen to ten people.
- Further measures at the workplace: Where home office is not or only partially possible, further measures at the workplace will be enacted: For the protection of workers indoors, masks will now be compulsory wherever more than one person is present in a room. A large distance between workplaces in the same room is no longer sufficient. Employers must also document in writing the measures adopted to protect workers and to enforce the distance and hygiene rules - after consulting the workers. This increases transparency and also the involvement of employees.
- Protection of employees at particular risk: For certain persons, infection with the coronavirus can be more dangerous than average, as the disease can be severe or even fatal, especially for them.
The disease can be severe or even fatal for them in particular. Particularly at-risk persons should therefore be specifically protected without discriminating against them. To this end, the right to home office or equivalent protection at the workplace or leave of absence for particularly at-risk persons is to be introduced, as in spring 2020."

I thought the protection for employees at particular risk might be of interest to a few people here.
That's right. Hound people for working in empty offices, and carry on letting 10 people (as old and vulnerable as you like) meet up indoors as they see fit.

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 08.01.2021 at 17:11.
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  #19312  
Old 08.01.2021, 17:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think that's the case here looking at who has been infected and who hasn't (taking our teachers out of the equation!). The Clifton wing seems unaffected, we moderates unaffected, and the Baboon wing to be teeming with it!

Not really surprised. The guidelines have allowed some relatively dangerous activities and enforced or recommended some pretty pointless stuff. Some seem to trust the guidelines 100% rather than make their own judgement - which probably hasn't been wise (packed mountain transports, restaurants, not making age based calls)
Do you know the term "statistically significant sample size"?
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Old 08.01.2021, 17:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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Also connecting flights? I plan to cross the Atlantic in a few months, hope I don't have to stop by London but one never knows.
Canada already requires it, the US requires it on flights from the UK. That likely will change to all flights soon.
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Old 08.01.2021, 17:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think that's the case here looking at who has been infected and who hasn't (taking our teachers out of the equation!). The Clifton wing seems unaffected, we moderates unaffected, and the Baboon wing to be teeming with it!
Maybe you or Clifton are just hearing what you want to hear.

Those I know who have it fall into 3 categories.

A couple in care homes
A couple basically unlucky or not reasonably avoidable through a random but close contact.
Most however were people who I know to be more in the Clifton/HvF camp who ignored whichever guidelines they thought didn't apply to them.

I did a little mental survey a while back and realised that most of the infections I know of were in people I would have expected to be infected beforehand.
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  #19315  
Old 08.01.2021, 17:29
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Re: Coronavirus

OOOOpppsss

Swedish parliament grants government wider lockdown powers
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  #19316  
Old 08.01.2021, 17:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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Maybe you or Clifton are just hearing what you want to hear.

Those I know who have it fall into 3 categories.

A couple in care homes
A couple basically unlucky or not reasonably avoidable through a random but close contact.
Most however were people who I know to be more in the Clifton/HvF camp who ignored whichever guidelines they thought didn't apply to them.

I did a little mental survey a while back and realised that most of the infections I know of were in people I would have expected to be infected beforehand.
I would characterize the people from back home who have caught it as a bit dozy or dim on average. Not actually rebellious. One who got a lift from a friend to avoid public transport particularly comes into mind. Then again I don't really know anyone who is actively a COVID-denier. Obviously, the absolute wits have mostly had it by now. Actually, not many of my friends have had it.

I'm pretty good on the social distancing FWIW. The last time I had sustained indoor contact with someone not in my household was back in Q1 2020 other than public transport (I can't drive). And I'm careful on public transport too - travel at very non peak times. Certainly won't sit next or opposite to anyone. Risk there is not zero, but I don't think its high.

The reality is that the guidelines and what is sensible correlate, but there are some discrepancies. Taking the UK - Rishi's dishes vs. not being allowed for a second outdoor walk by yourself. I would completely ignore the rule saying you couldn't go out for a second alone outdoor walk - because I am a person not a sheep. I would not have participated in Rishi's dishes in a restaurant that did not have outdoor seating because I do not believe in such totally unnecessary and casual risk taking. I think slaveishly following the law (but doing as much as you are entitled to) and doing the reverse is indefensible.

I think my general point that one should think for themselves and assess the risks using their brain rather than just follow the guidelines word for word is just obvious common sense. But then again I believe broadly if you treat people like adults they behave like adults, and if you treat people like children, they behave like children.

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 08.01.2021 at 18:08.
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  #19317  
Old 08.01.2021, 18:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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Interesting news from Canada:

"At this point, there is no flu in Quebec (only 4 cases were detected between August and December)" Arruda (public health director) said on Wednesday. "If you have symptoms similar to the flu, it is probably COVID-19." ....Nearly 1.5 million people have been vaccinated against the flu since Nov. 1 and doses will still be made available to those at risk who request it, the ministry says." https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...ebec-1.5865170

Never thought about this, but a widespread vaccination for the common flu makes real easy to identify & isolate covid19 cases.
But then if you are like me, and get the flu jab - your mind starts to wonder at any benign flu-ish symptom.. It's a drag.

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I think that's the case here looking at who has been infected and who hasn't (taking our teachers out of the equation!). The Clifton wing seems unaffected, we moderates unaffected, and the Baboon wing to be teeming with it!
Reminds me the Reading Aptitude groups in education: The Gazelles, The Giraffes, The Bunnies..

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I would characterize the people from back home who have caught it as a bit dozy or dim on average. Not actually rebellious. One who got a lift from a friend to avoid public transport particularly comes into mind. Then again I don't really know anyone who is actively a COVID-denier. Obviously, the absolute wits have mostly had it by now. Actually, not many of my friends have had it.

I'm pretty good on the social distancing FWIW. The last time I had sustained indoor contact with someone not in my household was back in Q1 2020 other than public transport (I can't drive). And I'm careful on public transport too - travel at very non peak times. Certainly won't sit next or opposite to anyone. Risk there is not zero, but I don't think its high.

The reality is that the guidelines and what is sensible correlate, but there are some discrepancies. Taking the UK - Rishi's dishes vs. not being allowed for a second outdoor walk by yourself. I would completely ignore the rule saying you couldn't go out for a second alone outdoor walk - because I am a person not a sheep. I would not have participated in Rishi's dishes in a restaurant that did not have outdoor seating because I do not believe in such totally unnecessary and casual risk taking. I think slaveishly following the law (but doing as much as you are entitled to) and doing the reverse is indefensible.

I think my general point that one should think for themselves and assess the risks using their brain rather than just follow the guidelines word for word is just obvious common sense. But then again I believe broadly if you treat people like adults they behave like adults, and if you treat people like children, they behave like children.
What do you treat people like so they show up at the most impossible places in fur bikinis and horns?
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  #19318  
Old 08.01.2021, 18:34
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Re: Coronavirus

Have we had more new measures today?

I've just seen Villars announce that due to new measures the ski nocturne and luge are closed.. And Diablerets announce their luge piste is closed from Sunday due to new measures.

Part of some other closures?
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  #19319  
Old 08.01.2021, 18:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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Curiously, are high school and university students doing home-school now or are they physically in the classroom? (I can't seem to remember what the latest news is in that regard).

I think they should really consider enforcing home-schooling again if they really want to bring those numbers down and try to help save the economy. Teenagers especially are one of the biggest "spreaders," I guess... and of course, with these new mutations, primary school kids also spread those variants more easily.
Universities are distance learning, everything else is still ‘on site’.
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Old 08.01.2021, 18:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think that's the case here looking at who has been infected and who hasn't (taking our teachers out of the equation!). The Clifton wing seems unaffected, we moderates unaffected, and the Baboon wing to be teeming with it!
Up until the end of November I didn’t know anybody at all who had been infected.
Then my aunt and uncle in the UK died from it, over 50% of hubby’s family in the south east of England got infected just before Christmas and two people I know in Switzerland have been infected.

I’m not sure which of those groups I fit into. I have been careful and have followed all the measures in place, have not been socialising other than the odd coffee with a friend (often outside) and walks with another friend.
I have been teaching all my classes online.
I am classed as high risk (which I personally didn’t think I was) and have started the vaccination programme but I don’t see things getting back to being anything near normal before summer personally.
I also don’t think closing the non essential stores will make much of a difference.

Last edited by Belgianmum; 08.01.2021 at 19:22.
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