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Old 11.01.2021, 19:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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(I agree .Or at least they should admit it's not only restaurants where people catch covid)
I don't see the issue with restaurants, I would usually eat out 4 times or more with my wife, we eat together & sleep in the same bed so don't really see much extra risk. I don't like 5 star restaurants where the staff lick your arse throughout the meal.
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  #19422  
Old 11.01.2021, 19:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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Policy inertia. For several decades public transport has been financially and ideologically supported. Working adults have been told you don't need a driver's license or a car. Some people truly believe it and live without ever learning to drive. So, screw this people? Not a consensus maker, right?
Yes. Not everyone can afford it, and if so - there are no parking places to rent. I got a license but thankgod for an amazing CFF.
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Old 11.01.2021, 19:50
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Re: Coronavirus

Euronews last night said that 50% of Swiss restaurants and hotels risk bankrupcy.
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Old 11.01.2021, 19:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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I honestly don't know... they look like teens to me that are still in school. So high school (gymnasium/whatever the other one is called) & colleges should be doing distance learning.
Must have been me & my crowd you saw - 50 is the new 20
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Old 11.01.2021, 19:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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I don't see the issue with restaurants, I would usually eat out 4 times or more with my wife, we eat together & sleep in the same bed so don't really see much extra risk. I don't like 5 star restaurants where the staff lick your arse throughout the meal.
I am convinced restaurants and bars are a big driver. It is where people meet, are together for quite a long time, don't wear masks, talk all the time and increasingly loud as the evening goes on. And yes, I miss restaurants.

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Euronews last night said that 50% of Swiss restaurants and hotels risk bankrupcy.
At least. I have said it before, I am not a fan of state support - but the issue here is that they had to close because of government orders and need a meaningful compensation. They get almost nothing while restaurants in Germany and Austria are receiving something like 70% of previous revenue! Not saying this should be the number (they will outsource most of the personnel cost to Kurzarbeit plus have no cost for groceries), but the 10% under the "Haertefall" thing is a complete joke.

Last edited by komsomolez; 11.01.2021 at 20:25.
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  #19426  
Old 11.01.2021, 20:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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I don't see the issue with restaurants, I would usually eat out 4 times or more with my wife, we eat together & sleep in the same bed so don't really see much extra risk. I don't like 5 star restaurants where the staff lick your arse throughout the meal.
Exactly. Back when we could go to restaurants we did a few times and other people were spaced well apart. That was true both in CH and in France. Why not just limit group sizes or overall occupancy?
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  #19427  
Old 11.01.2021, 20:17
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Re: Coronavirus

We have a takeaway cafe/bar here in Klosters where we can buy hot drinks, as well as a small selection of food and alcohol. It's run by one of the local Hotels with full permission from the Gemeinde. We are allowed to stand around and consume whatever we have bought, but cannot sit. There are no seats anyway as it is on a little piazza. What seems ridiculous is that people are standing around in large groups and can move from one group to another. Being allowed/forced to sit would make a lot more sense as that would stop mingling. No one is going to hang around too long as it's obviously all outside and freezing. Sometimes the restrictions can have the opposite effect.
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  #19428  
Old 11.01.2021, 20:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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Euronews last night said that 50% of Swiss restaurants and hotels risk bankrupcy.
And for what? People are still dying in droves in spite of the lockdowns.

When this is over (if it ever is), I’m sure people will realise that the millions of extra deaths in the coming years, the millions of unemployed, the millions of children traumatised and prevented an education, our culture damaged, our fundamental rights compromised, the mountains of debt to be repaid, I’m sure they’ll finally realise that lockdown were not worth it.
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  #19429  
Old 11.01.2021, 20:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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Sometimes the restrictions can have the opposite effect.
Same with closing shops early, by 19.00. My shopping center used to be open until 20.00 and it was very comfortably empty between 18 and 20. Now everyone is packed and stressed between 18 and 19. They presume people will change habits and shop less frequently, but in reality the shops just get more packed.
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  #19430  
Old 11.01.2021, 21:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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I hope the current light lockdown does not get lifted on Wednesday due to the fall in numbers! I dug out Monday numbers for the last few weeks-
6523 <-Today
9665
10087
These two numbers are for four days, not 3 as usual. So they are not really comparable.
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  #19431  
Old 11.01.2021, 21:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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Same with closing shops early, by 19.00. My shopping center used to be open until 20.00 and it was very comfortably empty between 18 and 20. Now everyone is packed and stressed between 18 and 19. They presume people will change habits and shop less frequently, but in reality the shops just get more packed.
Exactly, this is the most stupid idea ever.
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  #19432  
Old 11.01.2021, 21:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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And for what? People are still dying in droves in spite of the lockdowns.

When this is over (if it ever is), I’m sure people will realise that the millions of extra deaths in the coming years, the millions of unemployed, the millions of children traumatised and prevented an education, our culture damaged, our fundamental rights compromised, the mountains of debt to be repaid, I’m sure they’ll finally realise that lockdown were not worth it.
They could (and probably would) be dying in bigger droves if not for the lockdown.

But ... I do want an explanation of what are fundamental rights are.

It's concerning to me how governments can ban things that have not shown to be, and no reasonable person would expect to be, significant drivers of infection. This needs to be tested in court.

I strongly feel banning non-essential shops from opening and the like should be constitutionally illegal.
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Old 11.01.2021, 21:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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Same with closing shops early, by 19.00. My shopping center used to be open until 20.00 and it was very comfortably empty between 18 and 20. Now everyone is packed and stressed between 18 and 19. They presume people will change habits and shop less frequently, but in reality the shops just get more packed.
That doesn't even help. If I shop at half the frequency, I will spend twice as long in the shop as I need to buy twice as many items.

Given that there needs to be an extended exposure to contract the virus in most cases, its probably more dangerous to do less frequent longer shops. I feel very safe popping in for one or two items. I feel that I basically can't breathe enough infected air in to catch the virus.

I get a bit angsty after spending 15 or 20 minutes in the shop doing a 100CHF trip.

Honestly, I'd rather go daily.
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  #19434  
Old 11.01.2021, 22:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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And for what? People are still dying in droves in spite of the lockdowns.
What's not coherent are restos/bars/theaters/sporthalls closed, but packed trains and classrooms opened, shops, department stores and indoor hobby/furniture/garden centers opened.

Last edited by MusicChick; 12.01.2021 at 06:29.
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  #19435  
Old 11.01.2021, 22:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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That doesn't even help. If I shop at half the frequency, I will spend twice as long in the shop as I need to buy twice as many items.

Given that there needs to be an extended exposure to contract the virus in most cases, its probably more dangerous to do less frequent longer shops. I feel very safe popping in for one or two items. I feel that I basically can't breathe enough infected air in to catch the virus.

I get a bit angsty after spending 15 or 20 minutes in the shop doing a 100CHF trip.

Honestly, I'd rather go daily.
Only 100CHF after spending 15 or 20 minutes in the shop? Did you find a new discount outlet?
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Old 11.01.2021, 23:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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They could (and probably would) be dying in bigger droves if not for the lockdown.

But ... I do want an explanation of what are fundamental rights are.

It's concerning to me how governments can ban things that have not shown to be, and no reasonable person would expect to be, significant drivers of infection. This needs to be tested in court.

I strongly feel banning non-essential shops from opening and the like should be constitutionally illegal.
Study from the ETH reported on Sunday that closing non essential shops reduces mobility by about 10%. Reducing mobility has a direct and proportionate effect on infections.

Closing schools has a 21% impact...
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Old 11.01.2021, 23:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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Only 100CHF after spending 15 or 20 minutes in the shop? Did you find a new discount outlet?

115 Euros- local French HyperU
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Old 11.01.2021, 23:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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They could (and probably would) be dying in bigger droves if not for the lockdown.

But ... I do want an explanation of what are fundamental rights are.

It's concerning to me how governments can ban things that have not shown to be, and no reasonable person would expect to be, significant drivers of infection. This needs to be tested in court.

I strongly feel banning non-essential shops from opening and the like should be constitutionally illegal.
Fundamental rights to hug a relative, not to have to cover your face, not to abandon elderly relatives on their own, to meet up with friends, to go to church and to sing when there, that sort of thing. This is basically the main argument, that even if lockdown measures did work, and let's be honest there's very little evidence that they do, then the price is simply not worth paying.

If only a holistic approach had been used more widely that minimised collateral damage to society, the economy and wider public health rather than taking every decision based solely on Covid cases.
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Old 11.01.2021, 23:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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Fundamental rights to hug a relative, not to have to cover your face, not to abandon elderly relatives on their own, to meet up with friends, to go to church and to sing when there...
...and the most fundamental of all, the right to die in suffering after being rejected the medical treatment due to insufficient capacity.
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  #19440  
Old 12.01.2021, 00:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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"The lockdown riot is underway - the first restaurants have opened"

https://www.20min.ch/story/diese-sch...e-206177847382
The French version of 20min adds interesting context to the protest of restaurants. Unia is the largest labor union in CH, and this what they think about the protest:

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In the afternoon, Unia took a stand against this action, especially in relation to employees of some potentially affected restaurants. "Considering the fact that there are already more than 8,000 deaths from the coronavirus in Switzerland, this is an affront to humanity and common sense," the union said. The companies concerned put their employees in an untenable situation. If they comply with the employer's request to work despite an official ban, then they are committing a criminal offense."
https://www.20min.ch/fr/story/pour-p...s-311877867060

So, are restaurants owners really putting their employees at risk of having legal problems or just misinformation from the labor union?
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